Cammed life not for me
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 233
Likes: 1
Cammed life not for me
So, i put about 1500 miles on my car after my 222/228 x 114 cam install i did myself. Dropped $500 on a tune with a reputable tuner and I have come to the realization I should have gone FI.
I gained nearly 40 rwhp but here is what i got with it -
1. car shakes at idle and has increased exhaust smell and minor bucking below 1500 rpm
2. With AC on it wants to stall when you let off the gas
3. Louder valvetrain
4. Now with less than 10,000 miles on the car i hear a very slight knock of a lifter which has me worried
I realize #2 can be fixed with some additional tuning but overall my experience with a cam is neutral at best. I plan on putting the stock cam back in this Fall and going with an Eforce.
Am I the only person to have a negative experience with a cam? It seems every cam install on this forum is a cinderlla story. Maybe i am just crazy.
I gained nearly 40 rwhp but here is what i got with it -
1. car shakes at idle and has increased exhaust smell and minor bucking below 1500 rpm
2. With AC on it wants to stall when you let off the gas
3. Louder valvetrain
4. Now with less than 10,000 miles on the car i hear a very slight knock of a lifter which has me worried
I realize #2 can be fixed with some additional tuning but overall my experience with a cam is neutral at best. I plan on putting the stock cam back in this Fall and going with an Eforce.
Am I the only person to have a negative experience with a cam? It seems every cam install on this forum is a cinderlla story. Maybe i am just crazy.
Drifting
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,618
Likes: 105
From: Southport North Carolina
Oh brother, your post gives me pause for concern. Sounds like you have a bad tune. I'm taking my car in for a Fast 102 and GT11 cam tomorrow. My first deep internal engine mod. I'm going to a real reputable shop in Garner NC. Hope I see Cinderella when I pick it up later this week.
Last edited by berk4422; Aug 11, 2014 at 11:40 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 24,035
Likes: 2,342
From: Gilbert AZ
I have seen people hate cams, but that is from going way too big. Put a 240/250 cam in a vette and not know what you are getting into, but that cam is tiny and still has negative overlap. No way it should be bucking or have any of those issues.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 16,253
Likes: 1,657
From: Arizona
Had LG Motorsports do my Heads/Cam (G6X3 I think) install along with headers, Fast 102 Intake and Fast 90mm TB.
Loved the cam shake rattle and roll.
Nothing sounds better than a well tuned heads cam Vette waking the neighborhood.
Went from 343 stock to 505 with a 402 block. That's a nice gain.
Loved the cam shake rattle and roll.
Nothing sounds better than a well tuned heads cam Vette waking the neighborhood.
Went from 343 stock to 505 with a 402 block. That's a nice gain.
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: houston,tx
had the same issues w/ last z06 i owned. cammed life not for me either. FI is the best path.
that said, you can fix it, likely need to trim fuel down at low RPMs. all part of tuning. (my symptoms, similar to yours, consistently improved w/ less fuel at low ends).
that said, you can fix it, likely need to trim fuel down at low RPMs. all part of tuning. (my symptoms, similar to yours, consistently improved w/ less fuel at low ends).
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Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,897
Likes: 412
From: Lewisville TX
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
I think a few things with your car are probably minor...the surging, and the stall is all tune related. Either it is a bad combo of parts, a sensor is dying/dead, or something in the tune is off. That should be easily fixed.
When looking at blowers, turbo's, cams, engine builds.....pick what you want for the car but don't expect to get everything.
I.E. with current technology you will not build a 900 rwhp car that gets 35mpg, idles at 600 RPM, doesn't shake, no cam surge, and requires no maintenance for 100k miles.
So with that being said there are benefits and draw backs on each. A cam/header car is never going to put down the same kind of numbers as a blower car will so it is hard to compare them.
Centri blowers
Pro
Con
Roots blowers (E-force/Maggie)
Pro
Con
Cam'd builds
Pro
Con
When looking at blowers, turbo's, cams, engine builds.....pick what you want for the car but don't expect to get everything.
I.E. with current technology you will not build a 900 rwhp car that gets 35mpg, idles at 600 RPM, doesn't shake, no cam surge, and requires no maintenance for 100k miles.
So with that being said there are benefits and draw backs on each. A cam/header car is never going to put down the same kind of numbers as a blower car will so it is hard to compare them.
Centri blowers
Pro
- Easier install, doesn't require hood change
- Effiecent design
- Great top end HP
- Many sizes of blowers to meet different HP goals
- Easy to make big power with
- Do not heat soak as bad as a roots blower
- drives like stock
Con
- Intercooler blocks the radiator, so they run hot
- Added weight
- belt slip can be an issue
- increased load on the front main bearings
- generally have to lower the radiator for inlet pipe room
- more parts under the hood
- may require other mods, fuel pump/clutch/radiator/headers...
Roots blowers (E-force/Maggie)
Pro
- Tons of low and mid range torque
- increased throttle response
- acts like a big block
- solid increase in HP
- Many kits have an OEM fitment
- Easy install
- drives like stock
Con
- increased weight
- prone to heat soak
- is not setup for huge power numbers
- some kits will require a hood change
- may require other mods, fuel pump/clutch/radiator/headers...
Cam'd builds
Pro
- no weight added
- various designs to meet your HP/RPM goals
- has that great cam'd sound
- does not tax the cooling system as much as forced induction
- less fuel consumption than FI
- less cost
Con
- not as much HP gain as FI
- Will require valve spring changes through it's life
- changes the drivablity of the car
- depending on the cam, it may surge
- automatics will typically require a larger stall torque converter
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 24,035
Likes: 2,342
From: Gilbert AZ
Agreed with Anthony on all things but the fuel thing. Big cams can kill gas mileage. My very mild cam blower car got better mileage than my big cam car. Just depends on the cam and blower setup. If you get a cam that idles at 950-1000rpm, and can't be driven below 1800rpm then gas mileage is going to take a hit for sure, and could be worse than a blower car that idles at 600 and cruises at 1200rpm all day.
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,897
Likes: 412
From: Lewisville TX
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
Agreed with Anthony on all things but the fuel thing. Big cams can kill gas mileage. My very mild cam blower car got better mileage than my big cam car. Just depends on the cam and blower setup. If you get a cam that idles at 950-1000rpm, and can't be driven below 1800rpm then gas mileage is going to take a hit for sure, and could be worse than a blower car that idles at 600 and cruises at 1200rpm all day.
I don't know if I saw much over 14-16 mpg on the highway with Lou's ZR1
Pro
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 695
Likes: 4
From: Long Island New York
I think a few things with your car are probably minor...the surging, and the stall is all tune related. Either it is a bad combo of parts, a sensor is dying/dead, or something in the tune is off. That should be easily fixed.
When looking at blowers, turbo's, cams, engine builds.....pick what you want for the car but don't expect to get everything.
I.E. with current technology you will not build a 900 rwhp car that gets 35mpg, idles at 600 RPM, doesn't shake, no cam surge, and requires no maintenance for 100k miles.
So with that being said there are benefits and draw backs on each. A cam/header car is never going to put down the same kind of numbers as a blower car will so it is hard to compare them.
Centri blowers
Pro
Con
Roots blowers (E-force/Maggie)
Pro
Con
Cam'd builds
Pro
Con
When looking at blowers, turbo's, cams, engine builds.....pick what you want for the car but don't expect to get everything.
I.E. with current technology you will not build a 900 rwhp car that gets 35mpg, idles at 600 RPM, doesn't shake, no cam surge, and requires no maintenance for 100k miles.
So with that being said there are benefits and draw backs on each. A cam/header car is never going to put down the same kind of numbers as a blower car will so it is hard to compare them.
Centri blowers
Pro
- Easier install, doesn't require hood change
- Effiecent design
- Great top end HP
- Many sizes of blowers to meet different HP goals
- Easy to make big power with
- Do not heat soak as bad as a roots blower
- drives like stock
Con
- Intercooler blocks the radiator, so they run hot
- Added weight
- belt slip can be an issue
- increased load on the front main bearings
- generally have to lower the radiator for inlet pipe room
- more parts under the hood
- may require other mods, fuel pump/clutch/radiator/headers...
Roots blowers (E-force/Maggie)
Pro
- Tons of low and mid range torque
- increased throttle response
- acts like a big block
- solid increase in HP
- Many kits have an OEM fitment
- Easy install
- drives like stock
Con
- increased weight
- prone to heat soak
- is not setup for huge power numbers
- some kits will require a hood change
- may require other mods, fuel pump/clutch/radiator/headers...
Cam'd builds
Pro
- no weight added
- various designs to meet your HP/RPM goals
- has that great cam'd sound
- does not tax the cooling system as much as forced induction
- less fuel consumption than FI
- less cost
Con
- not as much HP gain as FI
- Will require valve spring changes through it's life
- changes the drivablity of the car
- depending on the cam, it may surge
- automatics will typically require a larger stall torque converter
Racer
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 264
Likes: 5
From: Waldorf MD
Pro
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 530
Likes: 68
From: old bridge nj
St. Jude Donor '10
i love my Big Blower cam. Installed and tuned by ecs. exhaust/cam/intake/tune netted me roughly 100whp. I personally love the shake and the louder exhaust.
If i drove it every day.. maybe not.
If i drove it every day.. maybe not.
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 24,035
Likes: 2,342
From: Gilbert AZ
"When you say that a cam will require valve spring changes through it's life, do you mean just changing the valve springs during the install? Or is it common to have to change them often?"
Yes, with a cam valve springs become a maintenance item. Depends on cam, the springs, how you drive, but checking and possibly replacing them every 20-30k miles should be part of your maintenance plan. With really aggressive cams it could be as quick as every 5-10k but you don't typically see those cams used on street cars.
Yes, with a cam valve springs become a maintenance item. Depends on cam, the springs, how you drive, but checking and possibly replacing them every 20-30k miles should be part of your maintenance plan. With really aggressive cams it could be as quick as every 5-10k but you don't typically see those cams used on street cars.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 262
Likes: 3
From: Tempe AZ
So, i put about 1500 miles on my car after my 222/228 x 114 cam install i did myself. Dropped $500 on a tune with a reputable tuner and I have come to the realization I should have gone FI.
I gained nearly 40 rwhp but here is what i got with it -
1. car shakes at idle and has increased exhaust smell and minor bucking below 1500 rpm
2. With AC on it wants to stall when you let off the gas
3. Louder valvetrain
4. Now with less than 10,000 miles on the car i hear a very slight knock of a lifter which has me worried
I realize #2 can be fixed with some additional tuning but overall my experience with a cam is neutral at best. I plan on putting the stock cam back in this Fall and going with an Eforce.
Am I the only person to have a negative experience with a cam? It seems every cam install on this forum is a cinderlla story. Maybe i am just crazy.
I gained nearly 40 rwhp but here is what i got with it -
1. car shakes at idle and has increased exhaust smell and minor bucking below 1500 rpm
2. With AC on it wants to stall when you let off the gas
3. Louder valvetrain
4. Now with less than 10,000 miles on the car i hear a very slight knock of a lifter which has me worried
I realize #2 can be fixed with some additional tuning but overall my experience with a cam is neutral at best. I plan on putting the stock cam back in this Fall and going with an Eforce.
Am I the only person to have a negative experience with a cam? It seems every cam install on this forum is a cinderlla story. Maybe i am just crazy.
If I were to do it again, I would instead have put in an LS7 or LS9 cam in but stay with the 1.7 rockers. Since you are changing cams anyway I would recommend doing that and bringing the noise and reliability back to stock. With the 1.7 lifters, your lift is about stock (around 550) so you can keep your stock springs or just go to a single spring upgrade to keep it safe.
By the way, I tried several different pushrod lengths to change the preload and nothing made a difference in the noise. I now have a 2009 and love it. No change for me. My .02.
Jon
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,897
Likes: 412
From: Lewisville TX
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
"When you say that a cam will require valve spring changes through it's life, do you mean just changing the valve springs during the install? Or is it common to have to change them often?"
Yes, with a cam valve springs become a maintenance item. Depends on cam, the springs, how you drive, but checking and possibly replacing them every 20-30k miles should be part of your maintenance plan. With really aggressive cams it could be as quick as every 5-10k but you don't typically see those cams used on street cars.
Yes, with a cam valve springs become a maintenance item. Depends on cam, the springs, how you drive, but checking and possibly replacing them every 20-30k miles should be part of your maintenance plan. With really aggressive cams it could be as quick as every 5-10k but you don't typically see those cams used on street cars.
