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Front engine future

 
Old 06-12-2019, 07:42 PM
  #381  
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Originally Posted by CSevenGS View Post
I think there's something like 2 people on Earth that think them not directly saying it's the last FE (even though in every sense of the word, haven't they) Corvette is an issue. The other 7B people have figured out the C8 is a ME and LAST means LAST...and that no one knows the distant future.



I'll throw in the towel.

You are 100% correct.

The last Front engine, a 66 year tradition vehicle for corvette and GM...

it has no more value than the last c5, the last c6 or the last c7, if there happens to be another FE after this one.

There is NO REASON for GM to confirm this is the last FE.

It won't affect auction values at all. GM not mentioning it is the last, if it is the last FE... does not change the auction by a single dollar.

You win.

Happy? lets stop talking about it and move on now... because the fact that you don't see how simple this is is giving me a headache.


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Old 06-12-2019, 07:43 PM
  #382  
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Wow, this conversation is insane. Perhaps GM learned something when they said in a press release that the 1976 Cadillac Eldorado would be the last convertible ever made. Demand was very low then, and they were considered unsafe, never to return. That was true for about a decade, which is certainly not forever.

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Old 06-12-2019, 07:45 PM
  #383  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
Wow, this conversation is insane. Perhaps GM learned something when they said in a press release that the 1976 Cadillac Eldorado would be the last convertible ever made. It was for about a decade, which is certainly not forever.
Perhaps they have nothing to be ashamed of, and they kept their promise 8 years longer than porshce did when they said no more manual trans 911, and every manual trans gt3rs 4.0 (its last year for manual) shot up in value to 400,000 dollars (not just the last car built... every car of THAT YEAR shot up)

Perhaps you are right, no need to bring it up. Even though Tadge and MB say the ME is here to stay, as does everyone on this forum... no need to mention the last FE at all is there?.... to cause it to bring all the money it can at auction? Nah, who cares right?

You guys win, I'm out.

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Old 06-12-2019, 07:49 PM
  #384  
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If the ME Corvette is not a home run, things will most certainly change. Right now GM has all their Corvette eggs in that basket.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:09 PM
  #385  
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Originally Posted by bbbvettes.com View Post
You guys win, I'm out.
That's the second time you've said that on this thread. Wasn't true last time. Will it be this time?
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:13 PM
  #386  
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The topic changed. I stopped debating the first topic that I left on.

If the topic changes again, I might be back, but I've made my claim on the topic at hand, and that's all I can do. No sense in arguing with people who think a car is going to bring the same value at auction regardless if you disclose its the last FE vette ever, or don't disclose it and leave people guessing and with doubt and wonder, so they don't bid as high.

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Old 06-12-2019, 08:17 PM
  #387  
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C7 is ending in the very near future. The ME C8 will replace the FE C7. Will there be another FE in the future? Possibly. If the C8 is a sales failure then the C9 may be FE. Chevy has never produced two different Corvette platforms at the same time and I cannot see them doing that currently or in the near future.

For the C9, don’t think it will be ME or FE. It will be an EV and we will have a whole new way of looking at and defining cars then, i.e. batteries low and in the center with a separate motor driving each wheel. So no more ME or FE.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:48 PM
  #388  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
If the ME Corvette is not a home run, things will most certainly change. Right now GM has all their Corvette eggs in that basket.
Absolutely, but I fear we are losing sight of the bigger picture, though "fear" may be too strong a word. My prediction (my opinion only) is that the whole ME/FE issue is about to be moot. The C8 is clearly ME and despite PCMIII desires, there will be no FE built alongside it. Although he has changed his position from "will be" to "should be" hoping no one will notice the discrepancy, this still begs the question of what will happen next. Will Corvette RETURN to an FE C9 if the C8 fails? Some people appear to be saying GM might back step if the C8 fails. Although I doubt very much that will happen, the C8 may very well be short-lived. That is because GM, along with Ford, VW, Volkswagen, Volvo, and some others, all certainly representing a large share of the automotive marketplace, have committed to electrification. The C9 will be the Lectric Vette.

Now I know a lot of people will claim that will never happen. There are some very good arguments against electrification and I acknowledge them. But I believe them as much as I believe people who claimed Corvette taillights would always be round. Go ahead and make your arguments, but this is going to happen so fast it will make your head swim. And when it happens there will be an electric motor on each wheel with torque that will break your neck and performance out of this world. Now endurance is a different issue, but performance? Give it up. At that stage the ME/FE issue will be pointless. The engine itself will be immaterial. The Bottom Line here is that the C8 is an interim product, a diversion for the next step coming down the pike. For you guys young enough to enjoy this, have fun. Meanwhile, if you really want an FE, you better buy one right now because these are the last ones ever.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:12 PM
  #389  
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Originally Posted by mschuyler View Post
Meanwhile, if you really want an FE, you better buy one right now because these are the last ones ever.
My position is that the FE should be and will be built along with the C8 which will start at ~$70K and go up sharply from there. Meanwhile, the FE will occupy the space between $55-70K. That means the end of the FE ZR1 and Z06 as well as the likely end of the GS. If the C8 does not offer the LT4 as an option, it will have a 5 year run and end up like Fiero.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:27 PM
  #390  
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Originally Posted by mschuyler View Post
Absolutely, but I fear we are losing sight of the bigger picture, though "fear" may be too strong a word. My prediction (my opinion only) is that the whole ME/FE issue is about to be moot. The C8 is clearly ME and despite PCMIII desires, there will be no FE built alongside it. Although he has changed his position from "will be" to "should be" hoping no one will notice the discrepancy, this still begs the question of what will happen next. Will Corvette RETURN to an FE C9 if the C8 fails? Some people appear to be saying GM might back step if the C8 fails. Although I doubt very much that will happen, the C8 may very well be short-lived. That is because GM, along with Ford, VW, Volkswagen, Volvo, and some others, all certainly representing a large share of the automotive marketplace, have committed to electrification. The C9 will be the Lectric Vette.

Now I know a lot of people will claim that will never happen. There are some very good arguments against electrification and I acknowledge them. But I believe them as much as I believe people who claimed Corvette taillights would always be round. Go ahead and make your arguments, but this is going to happen so fast it will make your head swim. And when it happens there will be an electric motor on each wheel with torque that will break your neck and performance out of this world. Now endurance is a different issue, but performance? Give it up. At that stage the ME/FE issue will be pointless. The engine itself will be immaterial. The Bottom Line here is that the C8 is an interim product, a diversion for the next step coming down the pike. For you guys young enough to enjoy this, have fun. Meanwhile, if you really want an FE, you better buy one right now because these are the last ones ever.
I agree for the most part. However, I think it would be absolutely foolish to make any predictions about Corvette if the ME stumbles or fails. The future of the automotive industry is at a crossroads, and I have no clue where it will ultimately go. Corvette could disappear entirely for awhile because it's not big enough to heavily influence GM's bottom line. Today, it's primarily a performance prestige thing in the GM lineup. If the prestige disappears or becomes unimportant to future consumers and hence the GM board, there won't be much support for continuing it.

I was simply implying it is possible an FE Corvette could come back at some point in the future, but I said nothing about it being likely. I haven't a clue, but some sort of hybrid power is the best bet, which would most likely be something like the NSX based upon what we know today about available technology. One thing is certain, there is no clear vision of vehicular transportation 10 years from now. Technology is moving too fast.

I also wouldn't be one bit surprised to see something like a Ford/GM merger within a decade. The automotive landscape will change dramatically, and a lot the offerings we're used to today will likely disappear. The industry will almost certainly consolidate because there's probably too much competition for it to be sustainable long-term.

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Old 06-14-2019, 07:47 AM
  #391  
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Originally Posted by Purple92 View Post
The C7 is very close to 50 / 50 front / rear weight distribution - there isn't much you can do there...
Actually, even the C4 was pretty close to 50/50 (51/49) and the C5, C6 and C7 have only improved marginally on that particular metric. 50/50 being somehow the ultimate weight distribution is a myth though. It's just that it's better than having a lot of weight over the front wheels in a RWD car.
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:59 AM
  #392  
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The front engine future is the Camaro, and I don't expect that future to last very long . . . maybe one more generation.
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:42 AM
  #393  
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Originally Posted by Dethsupp0rt View Post
The front engine future is the Camaro, and I don't expect that future to last very long . . . maybe one more generation.
Unfortunately the Camaro is not a Corvette alternative, might as well look at mustangs. The F-type looks nice though, despite the base model being down on power and not having a V8, and there are other alternatives.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:06 PM
  #394  
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Originally Posted by born2beS12 View Post
Name a model of car that has ever been made in 2 completely different configurations at the same time with the same nameplate-not to include the mustang fastback/hatchback and coupe or corvette coupe and FRC as those were simply the difference in roof/quarter panels and trim similar to the convertible option. And the only time I have ever seen two different generations of the same vehicle produced simultaneously was the 2004 F150 and 2004 F150 heritage, which was the previous gen f150 with a special badge,
Caddy Escalade and the Escalade EXT.

BMW did it with the 3 series BMW as well. They phased out the E9x cars in favor of the F3x cars by body style and sub model

I'm sure there are others but it has been done and certainly could be done again.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:18 PM
  #395  
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Geesh.. I leave for a few days and come back to a ton of replies But the story is still the same... sigh...
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:51 PM
  #396  
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Originally Posted by PerKr View Post
Actually, even the C4 was pretty close to 50/50 (51/49) and the C5, C6 and C7 have only improved marginally on that particular metric. 50/50 being somehow the ultimate weight distribution is a myth though. It's just that it's better than having a lot of weight over the front wheels in a RWD car.

I can think of three front engine sports cars that have better than a 50/50 weight distribution.

A 56 year old 1963 Corvette with 47/53 and a 1 day old Mercedes AMG Gt with 47/53 weight distribution.

Of the "modern" Corvettes, I believe the only version with better than 50/50 is the 15 year old C6 Z06 with 49/51.

Well, actually the 2006 C6 Z06 had a 49.3/50.7 weight distribution without a driver. Add in a 180 pound driver and the weight distribution changed to 49.7/50.3.

Now the mid engine Corvette will have better than 47/53 weight distribution, but since the cockpit is closer to the front axle, once you add in a 180 pound driver, you will have more of the drivers weight located closer to the front axle than with the 1963 Corvette, the 2006 Z06 and the 2019 AMG GT R.

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Old 06-17-2019, 04:22 PM
  #397  
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Originally Posted by vetteLT193 View Post
Caddy Escalade and the Escalade EXT.

BMW did it with the 3 series BMW as well. They phased out the E9x cars in favor of the F3x cars by body style and sub model

I'm sure there are others but it has been done and certainly could be done again.
Also there was the Cad XLRV, a real POS (based on the Corvette platform).
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