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I get a text from a friend about a '65 roadster for sale near me. He has not seen the car in person but had some great pictures from the owner and a small description that he texts me. The car is described as recent restoration of a nice original 350hp car. New red paint,chrome,interior and top. Options include p/s,p/b,p/w and "original teak wheel" $62K firm. In the pictures the car looks great. Professional photographer quality showing all sides,interior and under hood. Looking at the pictures the body gaps look pretty good. The engine compartment shows very nice detail. The top looks to fit well. The interior looks great. Better yet the car is only 30 minutes from me. I talk to the owner who tells me that he bought the car last summer from a private seller. He is not really a "Corvette guy". You can tell that from speaking with him for 10 minutes. He tells me "I bought it because he I loved the way it looked but I am not great with a standard shift". His description of the car was from the previous owner. His reason for selling impending divorce. I look for Corvettes daily. I am always looking for cars for myself that maybe better than the ones I already have. I also have other people contact me looking for nice cars or needing inspections. I check all of the usual spots on the internet, publications and cars like this one from word or mouth. Even if it does not work for me I have a guy that I am working who is looking for just like this. So here is one in my backyard so I head out for a look.=left What I find when I first get there was a really shiny car. But that is where it stopped. Quickly I know this car is =leftn=leftot the car for me. The car looks great. Newer paint,interior and top. That is why it looks great in pictures. The stamp on "Original" 350hp motor looks of at first glance. But that is where the good ends.=left The motor oil had anti freeze in it. And not just a trace. It was pouring out of both exhausts. A best case scenario a head gasket. Worst case a cracked block. Could also explain the knock coming from it while idling. A closer look at the stamp pad after a little cleaning revealed what originally looked like broach marks turned out to end just before the head. So whoever did the restamp didn't bother to even remove the head while sanding off what was there bore the restamp. =left Under the shiney new paint is a body that has been spliced together like Frankenstein. Not just one spot but at all four corners and in between the headlights. The work was not by an expert by any means. There are wavy unfinished mat fiberglass patches everywhere. The frame looks like it has newer black paint that I guess is supposed to hide weld patches to repair previous rust. They must have gotten tired of using the welder because there are two spots with bondo to fill the holes. And as expected the bondo is starting to fall out. The new interior looks very well done. But there is some rust hidden under it on the bird cage which is always a deal breaker. The "original" teak wheel is a repop as well. And all of this can be had at a firm price of $62K. Like I said not a car for me. It should not be a car for anyone. So while pictures are great some of them can lie. Hell, even I look good in some pictures
Last edited by provette67; 12-14-2018 at 01:00 PM.
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
2019 C1 of Year Winner (performance mods)
2017 Corvette of the Year Finalist
2016 C2 of Year
2015 C3 of Year Finalist
Pancho, It sounds like it was a mess but could have fooled the uninformed. To me, it's almost always a red flag when a seller, who has only owned a Vette for a short time, claims to not know much about Corvettes. That allows him to plead ignorance when an informed inspector looks at the car. Buyer Beware.
Pancho, It sounds like it was a mess but could have fooled the uninformed. To me, it's almost always a red flag when a seller, who has only owned a Vette for a short time, claims to not know much about Corvettes. That allows him to plead ignorance when an informed inspector looks at the car. Buyer Beware.
Paul,I have dealt with that in the past as well. This time is not the case. He had zero idea. He had the ad from the previous seller which is what he read to me on the phone. He did not know how to put the antenna down. He told me before I got there that the headlights would not come up. When I checked them and hit the rollover switch the headlights started to roll up. He was astonished. He thought they came up when you pull out the headlight switch. Let alone anything about what may lie under paint and on a frame. But judging from his house and the way that he dressed he can afford the money that he is going to lose on this. Maybe not so much in the divorce
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
2019 C1 of Year Winner (performance mods)
2017 Corvette of the Year Finalist
2016 C2 of Year
2015 C3 of Year Finalist
Sounds like he got duped. At least he can put the headlights up now. Demonstrates clearly the importance of having someone knowledgeable inspect the car.
Unfortunately, I went through a very similar scenario last week.
I have several pics of a 1971 Blazer that looks extremely nice. Verbiage states that it's a 9 out of a 10, and you will not be disappointed!
Fortunately, I wasn't willing to send out over 30k and pay to have it transported. My wife and I left Sacramento at 05:30 a.m. We flew into Nashville TN. Rented a car and drove to Decatur Alabama. Spent the night at our Daughter's place. Got up the next morning and drove the 2.5 hour drive to Mississippi.
I knew within about 30 seconds that the vehicle was nothing as it appeared in the photos. Horrible body work, horrible paint prep, horrible paint, rust and worn out door hinges. I didn't even drive it.
Called Southwest, booked a plane out of Memphis at 04:15 p.m. the same day. Flew back into Sacramento at 11:40 that evening.
At least I didn't lose a significant amount of money!
Digital pictures are the biggest "liars" out there....
I hate the damned huckster sellers...
When I sold this car to an Ohio dealer sight unseen I sent him a video of the front of the car on ramps while I stood in the passenger footwell bouncing the car up and down as I filmed the rear door gaps at the same time...(a check I always do on convertibles)...
The buyer called me back and said, "....Dude, you have damn sure seen some rusty Mustangs!"
I'd be mortified to put somebody through what Pat and others (including myself) have gone through with some of the Internet swindlers out there...
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 12-14-2018 at 04:22 PM.
Unfortunately, I went through a very similar scenario last week....
I knew within about 30 seconds that the vehicle was nothing as it appeared in the photos. Horrible body work, horrible paint prep, horrible paint, rust and worn out door hinges. I didn't even drive it.
….Called Southwest, booked a plane out Pat
Count me among you, I've done this several times but I consider it the research and development component of the hobby for me, my first car was a sight unseen purchase that took me 17 years to completely straighten out. If you find your initial due diligence leads you to plane tickets only to be confronted with a turd, you have to do a better job with initial vetting, no pun intended. Ask seller, "where would you spend $5,000 on this car, or $2,500" which - even if he is lying his answer may reveal clues to follow up on. After an especially loathsome round trip to Orlando to see a rotten Lincoln I swore I would do a better job in this area myself.
Count me among you, I've done this several times but I consider it the research and development component of the hobby for me, my first car was a sight unseen purchase that took me 17 years to completely straighten out. If you find your initial due diligence leads you to plane tickets only to be confronted with a turd, you have to do a better job with initial vetting, no pun intended. Ask seller, "where would you spend $5,000 on this car, or $2,500" which - even if he is lying his answer may reveal clues to follow up on. After an especially loathsome round trip to Orlando to see a rotten Lincoln I swore I would do a better job in this area myself.
Count me among you, I've done this several times but I consider it the research and development component of the hobby for me, my first car was a sight unseen purchase that took me 17 years to completely straighten out. If you find your initial due diligence leads you to plane tickets only to be confronted with a turd, you have to do a better job with initial vetting, no pun intended. Ask seller, "where would you spend $5,000 on this car, or $2,500" which - even if he is lying his answer may reveal clues to follow up on. After an especially loathsome round trip to Orlando to see a rotten Lincoln I swore I would do a better job in this area myself.
Dan
Dan,
Like you and others this was not my first not as advertised find. The week prior I went to south Florida to inspect a '67 435hp roadster. The car was said to be "untouched original" that has not been out since '71. Truly untouched true survivor cars are hard to come by. When paired with the car being a '67 435hp roadster the excitement really climbs as does the value of the car. The car with the exception of a respray of the front end is original. The paint has more than a few nick's and is faded badly. The carbs,distributor and alternator are dated to the car. The block however is dated '69 and is a CE replacement. Complete interior,soft top and three of five tires are original. The interior has had some damage from most likely mice and is faded badly from the sun. Though the frame is not rusted through the chassis has a coating of rust. There is a protecto plate and some service work from the selling dealer. Which is cool. But the overall condition of the paint and interior is well below average. We all have are own definition of original survivor. For me this one will need some restoration to get back to survivor level. But it was not all bad. My wife tagged along and we had a good time enjoying some warmth and sunshine before we headed home to the cold.
Pancho
It was a 62 hardtop, love the 61-63 Lincolns. This one looked good enough to go see from photos but alas, after fighting delayed planes and other airport woes I find a re-sprayed original that probably should have been left alone, with damp moldy carpets and a crankcase of what appeared to be worn out dirty oil mixed with water and gasoline. It was one of those "I don't want it at any price" moments.
Dan,
Like you and others this was not my first not as advertised find.
No doubt! Most of us have been through some version of this, and if you are going to visit a dealer, prepare yourself. All the dealer did was pay the liar with the turd a little less than he wanted, now he's spiffed it for the re-hoof.
You have to inspect what you expect. The safest way is to try and deal with car people. Let's use Frank's post above as an example; Frank had a Mustang for sale, a car that he evidently loved and its condition bears that out, probably wanted it in the hands of a like minded prospective owner. That owner was found when he discovered that Frank had a nice car and was willing to demonstrate how nice it was with enthusiasm. That comforted the buyer that he found the right kind of owner with a car in the sought after condition. With thousands of 1st generation Mustangs for sale it is too easy to find bad ones.
So the lesson is, try to find cars to buy among those of us in the hobby, who are more apt to have good cars to begin with and less apt to lie about them during a sale. I look and buy nothing from Craigslist, a haven for scumbags, I use eBay very carefully, and I spend most of my car searching on Hemmings, where those with ads and those searching them tend to be mostly guys like us.
We simply called them wild goose chases back in the day long before Al Gore invented the Internet.
I was on a few of them back in the day from Hemming’s ads before I learned to ask the right questions before going. I found it quite affective to ask if they lied about anything to expect to be shot.
I bought a 1970 Mustangs convertible about 15 years ago from a guy in California with a “sterling reputation”. I talked to him on the phone several times and he sent me many pictures including everything I asked for. His ad said, “all rust nicely repaired, needs new convertible top, but ready for paint.” He even put magnets all over it to show me it was solid metal. For $6k, I was not going to fly to CA, so the deal was struck. The car was a ten footer. Looked great from there and if you closed your eyes and ran your hand over every panel they felt perfect with a 400 grit finish ready for paint. Unfortunately, there was about five gallons of filler lurking below the nicely sanded high build primer. I ended up replacing both rear quarters, both door skins, inner fender liners, core support, and one front floor. I also painted it in my garage. It was the car I took to London when the company gave me a 40 foot shipping container and said I could put ANYTHING I wanted inside. Sold it for £40k to a Brit in 2005 in a cash transaction at a rest stop on the M40. Wish I had pics of the disaster, but here’s a couple once I finished it.
No doubt! Most of us have been through some version of this, and if you are going to visit a dealer, prepare yourself. All the dealer did was pay the liar with the turd a little less than he wanted, now he's spiffed it for the re-hoof.
You have to inspect what you expect. The safest way is to try and deal with car people. Let's use Frank's post above as an example; Frank had a Mustang for sale, a car that he evidently loved and its condition bears that out, probably wanted it in the hands of a like minded prospective owner. That owner was found when he discovered that Frank had a nice car and was willing to demonstrate how nice it was with enthusiasm. That comforted the buyer that he found the right kind of owner with a car in the sought after condition. With thousands of 1st generation Mustangs for sale it is too easy to find bad ones.
So the lesson is, try to find cars to buy among those of us in the hobby, who are more apt to have good cars to begin with and less apt to lie about them during a sale. I look and buy nothing from Craigslist, a haven for scumbags, I use eBay very carefully, and I spend most of my car searching on Hemmings, where those with ads and those searching them tend to be mostly guys like us.
Dan
I'm going to have to search in Hemmings. I see this name come up often with positive comments.
The last car I bought that was listed in Hemmings was in 1988, before the internet. A 1937 Chrysler Imperial business coupe. Car was exactly as described. Real car guys (not dealers or flippers) are who you want to buy from. Especially guys like several here on this forum who are perfectionists.(you know who you are!) Even the non-perfectionist folks on this forum appear to be of high character and inherently honest.
Some of these wild goose chase stories remind me of one I took nearly 30 years ago. I ran into a guy that told me his neighbor had a '58 Impala he bought new and was going to sell. They lived out in the country and never would answer their phone. The guy who told me about it said it was turqouise and in really nice condition. I got directions and decided to make a trip to this guys place. When getting there I found out he did have an Impala for sale but it was a '68 not a '58. However sometimes the chase is half the fun.
Well I must be on a roll. I drove to Pittsburgh, a little over 2hrs, to see what is advertised as all matching# and in newly restored condition. On the phone the seller he said that besides everything else the trim tag was original. Which was big since the car is black with red interior a/c '67 roadster. The inspection did not last long though. One really big issue the vin tag was from a '67 Impala. Well at least the vin matches the title that the seller has for this car
Well I must be on a roll. I drove to Pittsburgh, a little over 2hrs, to see what is advertised as all matching# and in newly restored condition. On the phone the seller he said that besides everything else the trim tag was original. Which was big since the car is black with red interior a/c '67 roadster. The inspection did not last long though. One really big issue the vin tag was from a '67 Impala. Well at least the vin matches the title that the seller has for this car
Probably a stolen car years ago, let the buyer beware!!
12-14-2018, 12:36 PM
When the pictures lie
And all of this can be had at a firm price of $62K. Like I said not a car for me. It should not be a car for anyone. So while pictures are great some of them can lie. Hell, even I look good in some pictures 
