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I think the biggest reason it went away is that GM listens to their customers. And the reality is GMs customers are people who buy new corvettes and for C7s 73% or all cars produced were automatic and only 26 manual. This as consistent for most prior generations as well. Sure used car demand may be different but I doubt GM cares about that. I would imagine if the split was closer to 50/50 they would have felt it would be worth the time to develop a manual version but they probably figured with the DCT that a portion of manual buyers would be converted to where they wouldn’t lose much and it would save them time and money.
I think the biggest reason it went away is that GM listens to their customers. And the reality is GMs customers are people who buy new corvettes and for C7s 73% or all cars produced were automatic and only 26 manual. This as consistent for most prior generations as well. Sure used car demand may be different but I doubt GM cares about that. I would imagine if the split was closer to 50/50 they would have felt it would be worth the time to develop a manual version but they probably figured with the DCT that a portion of manual buyers would be converted to where they wouldn’t lose much and it would save them time and money.
Honestly, I was holding out for a new manual transmission, but with the new GS I bit the bullet and I have one on order. I'm looking forward to seeing how much I like the DCT and if I run it in manual mode and how often.
I think the biggest reason it went away is that GM listens to their customers. And the reality is GMs customers are people who buy new corvettes and for C7s 73% or all cars produced were automatic and only 26 manual. This as consistent for most prior generations as well. Sure used car demand may be different but I doubt GM cares about that. I would imagine if the split was closer to 50/50 they would have felt it would be worth the time to develop a manual version but they probably figured with the DCT that a portion of manual buyers would be converted to where they wouldn’t lose much and it would save them time and money.
My 2014 Stingray Z51 was a 7 speed manual. My current 2018 Grand Sport Carbon 65 is a 7 speed manual. Yea, I know the automatics are quicker. I prefer to row the gears.
Originally Posted by Magnum383
Honestly, I was holding out for a new manual transmission, but with the new GS I bit the bullet and I have one on order. I'm looking forward to seeing how much I like the DCT and if I run it in manual mode and how often.
I would love to see a manual in the C8. I think the Corvette deserves a manual even though it would only be about 25% of production. Heck Cadillac offers a manual.
My 2014 Stingray Z51 was a 7 speed manual. My current 2018 Grand Sport Carbon 65 is a 7 speed manual. Yea, I know the automatics are quicker. I prefer to row the gears.
I would love to see a manual in the C8. I think the Corvette deserves a manual even though it would only be about 25% of production. Heck Cadillac offers a manual.
Corvette team has explained their reasons multiple times. Lack of uptake, cost, design issues, etc. Cadillac blackwing is being discontinued this year. I get folks don't like the change but c'mon...it's been 6 years, time to move past it.
I agree with the above…numbers don’t lie and it’s all about money. If you want a manual, buy a 70’s muscle car…but if you’re going for speed and comfort..time to move on.
I think the biggest reason it went away is that GM listens to their customers. And the reality is GMs customers are people who buy new corvettes and for C7s 73% or all cars produced were automatic and only 26 manual. This as consistent for most prior generations as well. Sure used car demand may be different but I doubt GM cares about that. I would imagine if the split was closer to 50/50 they would have felt it would be worth the time to develop a manual version but they probably figured with the DCT that a portion of manual buyers would be converted to where they wouldn’t lose much and it would save them time and money.
That’s true, look at the used Corvettes for sale on the used market, there are way more automatics available than manual transmissions. But, driving a manual is way more fun to me.
I agree with the above…numbers don’t lie and it’s all about money. If you want a manual, buy a 70’s muscle car…but if you’re going for speed and comfort..time to move on.
I think the biggest reason it went away is that GM listens to their customers. And the reality is GMs customers are people who buy new corvettes and for C7s 73% or all cars produced were automatic and only 26 manual. This as consistent for most prior generations as well. Sure used car demand may be different but I doubt GM cares about that. I would imagine if the split was closer to 50/50 they would have felt it would be worth the time to develop a manual version but they probably figured with the DCT that a portion of manual buyers would be converted to where they wouldn’t lose much and it would save them time and money.
Don't agree with that high a % standard shift that was the GM reason! Typically has been ~25% standard shift and that was certainly enough for GM to have worked harder to offer. Now my observation and experience with my 1st Vette indicated there was a different reason for it being as high as 25%.
My 1st Corvette was a 1988 and EVERY DD I owned since the Hot Rod I built when in High School in 1959 was a standard shift so was no question my 1st Vette would be a standard shift. However in 1988 only 15% of us bought standard shifts (Corvette Black Book statistics.) GM had stopped making standard shifts capable of handling high hp. It was an old GM 4 speed, Dough Hash had made and supplied with OD in the tailshaft. Could get 7 well spaced gears IF you split shifted like an 18 wheeler! It was the exact same price as the slushbox automatic, just had to check the box you wanted!
I followed the published prices of the largest Vette Dealer (Kerbeck at the time) where I ordered my 2018, C7 Grand Sport as well as my 2020 C8 Z51 and E-Ray (that after they changed owner's.) Of their >200 New Vettes they always had in inventory many 1LT Vettes with standard shifts and few options. For a good reason they were CHEAP. Let some folks wanting a Vette afford the monthly payment!
Turned out the problem with the 718 Cayman ME Porsche GT4 was the 0 to 60 time was slower than the 2017 Grand Sport I was driving. So at the C8 Launch when the 2020 C8 Z51 0 to 60 time was announced at 2.9 seconds AND no GM built slushbox transaxle but a DCT, I took a chance and placed my Hold-A-Spot-For-Me order!
Then the excuse given for no standard shift stated by GM Execs included,
Can't cut a hold in the center structural tunnel for strength reasons and
No room for a clutch pedal
Thought that is Marketing Speak! An excuse BUT not the real reason. Then saw starting in 2012 Ferrari, even for their exiting front engine cars said NOT longer can you get a standard shift! What was their real reason? Could it be they were preparing for the doubling of mph clearly stated in the 2012 published 1100 page US Document (to cut CO2 emissions in half?) And most European Counties were saying (as some still do) cars can have a maximum CO2 emissions/Km. The US Document (still available on the net, which I read) supported by most car manufacturers stated "most car companies will probably use hybrids. In fact the Ferrari CEO Camillari, said just before the pandemi, they wanted 60% of Ferrari’s sold in 2022 to be hybrids!
Porsche was quoted in July 2018 in a headline their plan to meet their improved 2025 average required high mpg in US headline: Porsche Plans EVs to Account for 50% of Business by 2025. That was another way to meet the required Corporate average. Standard shifts can't be used in a hybrid designed for high mpg. A computer has to decide what gear the trans must be in when the ICE starts at ~45 mph!
Corvette to meet the planned US law, IMO, like Ferrari planned no standard shifts possible with high mpg hybrids was part of the C8 decision when it started final design in ~2012.
This is a composite of the 2012 Document made showing the page of what mpg was to be required required for Corvette (and similar 2 seat sports cars) in 2025. It was to start increasing from the mpg at the time in 2017! Stopped by a Pen! Can achieve with high mpg hybrid OR 50% EV and 50% ICE.
Don't agree with that high a % standard shift that was the GM reason! Typically has been ~25% standard shift and that was certainly enough for GM to have worked harder to offer. Now my observation and experience with my 1st Vette indicated there was a different reason for it being as high as 25%.
My 1st Corvette was a 1988 and EVERY DD I owned since the Hot Rod I built when in High School in 1959 was a standard shift so was no question my 1st Vette would be a standard shift. However in 1988 only 15% of us bought standard shifts (Corvette Black Book statistics.) GM had stopped making standard shifts capable of handling high hp. It was an old GM 4 speed, Dough Hash had made and supplied with OD in the tailshaft. Could get 7 well spaced gears IF you split shifted like an 18 wheeler! It was the exact same price as the slushbox automatic, just had to check the box you wanted!
I followed the published prices of the largest Vette Dealer (Kerbeck at the time) where I ordered my 2018, C7 Grand Sport as well as my 2020 C8 Z51 and E-Ray (that after they changed owner's.) Of their >200 New Vettes they always had in inventory many 1LT Vettes with standard shifts and few options. For a good reason they were CHEAP. Let some folks wanting a Vette afford the monthly payment!
Turned out the problem with the 718 Cayman ME Porsche GT4 was the 0 to 60 time was slower than the 2017 Grand Sport I was driving. So at the C8 Launch when the 2020 C8 Z51 0 to 60 time was announced at 2.9 seconds AND no GM built slushbox transaxle but a DCT, I took a chance and placed my Hold-A-Spot-For-Me order!
Then the excuse given for no standard shift stated by GM Execs included,
Can't cut a hold in the center structural tunnel for strength reasons and
No room for a clutch pedal
Thought that is Marketing Speak! An excuse BUT not the real reason. Then saw starting in 2012 Ferrari, even for their exiting front engine cars said NOT longer can you get a standard shift! What was their real reason? Could it be they were preparing for the doubling of mph clearly stated in the 2012 published 1100 page US Document (to cut CO2 emissions in half?) And most European Counties were saying (as some still do) cars can have a maximum CO2 emissions/Km. The US Document (still available on the net, which I read) supported by most car manufacturers stated "most car companies will probably use hybrids. In fact the Ferrari CEO Camillari, said just before the pandemi, they wanted 60% of Ferrari’s sold in 2022 to be hybrids!
Porsche was quoted in July 2018 in a headline their plan to meet their improved 2025 average required high mpg in US headline: Porsche Plans EVs to Account for 50% of Business by 2025. That was another way to meet the required Corporate average. Standard shifts can't be used in a hybrid designed for high mpg. A computer has to decide what gear the trans must be in when the ICE starts at ~45 mph!
Corvette to meet the planned US law, IMO, like Ferrari planned no standard shifts possible with high mpg hybrids was part of the C8 decision when it started final design in ~2012.
This is a composite of the 2012 Document made showing the page of what mpg was to be required required for Corvette (and similar 2 seat sports cars) in 2025. It was to start increasing from the mpg at the time in 2017! Stopped by a Pen! Can achieve with high mpg hybrid OR 50% EV and 50% ICE.
Cliff notes, Corvette couldn’t be hybrid with a third pedal and EPA regs had it heading that direction?
Cliff notes, Corvette couldn’t be hybrid with a third pedal and EPA regs had it heading that direction?
Yep, Ferrari clearly said that was their goal. GM never said but IMO was their plan for the Corvette in 2012 when they were develping the C8. The retired GM Engineer in his video at C8 launch said he was working in "secret rooms" at the start of C8 development on hybrids. Never said it was a hybrid for performance or mpg. BUT both they and Ferrari would 1st introduce as "Performance Hybrids" as no sports car buying person wants a high mpg hybrid. BUT they are very similar except for software. Funny that the E-Ray has a stealth Mode that goes to a max 45 mph. That is the speed a car like a Prius starts the ICE.
Most energy is used accelerating, even modestly in normal cruising from start to typical cruising speeds. Can put your Vette mpg meter on and see the very low mpg as you go from a stop to cruising speed. Simple physics, to get the car mass to that speed takes energy. Once at speed only have to overcome air resistance, tire rolling resistance and some mechanical friction. As Newton said in 1687, "A body in motion wants to stay in motion!" So like a Prius, start from a stop with electric power that was saved when braking. Only turn on the Very Inefficient ICE when at ~45 mph cruising speed. In fact there was a non-plug-in Toyota with a smaller battery than the 1.9 kWh E-Ray. It was a different type, non capacitor like that in an E-Ray quick charge and discharge BUT the EPA mpg average was 55 mpg!
So possibly (IMO probable) Both Ferrari, and GM for the Corvette were just waiting for a "Government," US or European, to "TAKE THE BLAME" and they would install the software to always use Stop/Start; Accelerate in normal driving with ONLY electric power and; ONLY then turn on the ICE. Can't have a standard shift as only a computer can define at ~45 mph depending on throttle etc what gear the car needs to be in when the ICE starts! Guess could do as the Pic I made years ago showed for fun would be the alternative! Might need a somewhat different battery.
BTW, as EPA does not now and would not measure mpg at WOT. So even with a high mpg hybrid one could still use BOTH ICE and Battery power from the start if at WOT (or large throttle opening.) EPA clearly acknowledge they are only trying to measure average driving. Recently said they understand many don't achieve their mpg values. So the E-Ray would still do 0 to 60 as it does now. Really best of both worlds except for folks who just don't want Stop/Start or a Battery! Just think for a few volts on November 2016 we would have that now!
To use a standard shift with a mpg hybrid would have to display what gear to select when the LT2 was planned to start. BTW a Porsche engineer Dr. Gernot Döllner, said "Hybrid would only make sense with automatic (or PDK) gearboxes."
