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Good afternoon. I've got a "situation". The stock trunnion on cylinder 6 intake valve failed and I’m recovering needle bearings from the top of the head. So far I’ve found 24 (of the 33). I’ve drained the oil and didn’t recover any there. Unfortunately the drain plug was not magnetic. I have found a significant amount of glitter (recovered on my magnet as I was searching on the top of the head). I’ve got a few questions for any of you familiar with this problem-
I’m pulling the heads to replace the valve (and inspect the others).
1. Assuming I don’t find the remaining bearings on top of the valley cover, should I assume the others moved to the oil pan?
2. If so, is there any reliable way to inspect it other than dropping the oil pan? I ran a scope up in the drain hole, but couldn't see very far. It’s got a BTR stage 3 cam and dual valve springs so I’m hoping it didn’t damage the lobes, cylinder or valve(s).
3. I’m replacing the rocker arms and push rods. Is there anything else I should look for or inspect while I’m in there?
I’d appreciate any words of experience or wisdom. TIA
Unfortunately, I highly doubt they made their way down to the oil pan. I don't see them making their way to the valley cover.
I think if anything they're sitting on the piston. If that is the case they could have created hot spots and other issues with the piston.
Do you have any idea how long you ran it that way?
I dont believe it could ever enter the combustion chamber. However, worst case scenario would likely be if it ever got through the oil pickup (very unlikely) and locked up an oil pump.
Most likely scenario is it's sitting in the lifter trays.
If i remember correctly oil is the only fluid in the heads where the rockers sit and the oil pathway there is:
oil pan->pickup->pump-> supply->filter->cooler->to lifters->pushrods->rocker arms-drain down to pan. Crank gets oil at the same location as the lifters (?)
if anything were to scatter under the valve cover, it would stay in the head, drop into the lifter hole, or drop down the drain holes into the pan.
If the bearing got picked up, it would 100% lock up in the pump and never make it past there. There is no oil feed hole in the head to drain backwards into.
So... in my opinion, full failure or no issue. POTENTIALLY cause some valve spring breakage if it gets between some coils and binds it up. The rubbish caused by the rocker being thrown around is likely more damaging.
First, thanks to each of you for responding! I really appreciate it.
It's the stock trunnions. I don't know why they didn't upgrade the trunnions when they put the cam in it (trying to save a buck I guess). The cam and valve springs have got about 20,000 miles on them, maybe 4 or 5 years old. The car has right at 80K on it now.
I pulled the spark plug for the #6 piston and put the scope in there. There wasn't any apparent damage but I'll find out more when I pull the heads. The good thing is I only had to drive it about 15 miles once I noticed it running "different", so I'm hoping the damage is minimal.
Fortunately whoever installed the cam, replaced the pushrods with chromemoly pushrods. The one for the affected cylinder was only very slightly bent, but I've ordered all new just to be safe.
The speed shop called as I was finishing this response to tell me my new valve, rockers and trunnions are in. He suggested now would be a good time to put some long tube headers and X pipe on it. Any recommendations? It's not a daily driver, but its not a garage queen either. Thanks again for all the help
Originally Posted by Corvette_Dez;[url=tel:1609656519
1609656519]The LS3 is a pushrod ice. OP had a failed needle bearing trunion on a rocker arm. Pushrod pushes rocker arm up. Rocker arm push valve open. Valve opens to combustion chamber. Piston is in combustion chamber.
The LS has extremely narrow oil passages. Those needle bearings are wide and likely not to make their way all the way down to the oil pan. They might get stuck in the oil passage. They are VERY likely to go through the open valve and onto the piston.
Many times over the years I've seen the welded ball on the end of a pushrod snap off and weld itself to the top off a piston. Create a hot spot. Burn a hole in a piston etc. Thus, the reason EVERY decent engine builder uses forged and/or hardened pushrods. I only ever use forged one piece pushrods.
Same principle here in OP's situation.
I don’t see that there is any way a needle bearing or the end of a pushrod could make it into the cylinder of an LS engine. Only paths into the combustion chamber is through the spark plug hole, the intake valve, and the exhaust valve. Spark plug hole has a spark plug in it. Exhaust valve only opens to the exhaust. And the intake valve only opens to the intake track. Oil does not flow into either the exhaust or intake paths for obvious reasons. Please correct me if I am wrong but I cannot picture in my head how this could be possible.
To the OP with the failed rocker, I don’t think you have anything the worry about with the needle bearings. Likely, all that are unaccounted for are in the pan, probably caught on the screen of the pick up tube. If it was me, I would pull the pan and try to recover as many needle bearings and clear the screen of the pick up. And just repair any damaged parts and install a more robust rocker system or trunnion.
As for headers, absolutely an excellent upgrade especially with a bigger cam. Likely, do need a retune to dial everything back in.
Last edited by Spaceme1117; May 22, 2026 at 05:53 AM.
First, thanks to each of you for responding! I really appreciate it.
It's the stock trunnions. I don't know why they didn't upgrade the trunnions when they put the cam in it (trying to save a buck I guess). The cam and valve springs have got about 20,000 miles on them, maybe 4 or 5 years old. The car has right at 80K on it now.
I pulled the spark plug for the #6 piston and put the scope in there. There wasn't any apparent damage but I'll find out more when I pull the heads. The good thing is I only had to drive it about 15 miles once I noticed it running "different", so I'm hoping the damage is minimal.
Fortunately whoever installed the cam, replaced the pushrods with chromemoly pushrods. The one for the affected cylinder was only very slightly bent, but I've ordered all new just to be safe.
The speed shop called as I was finishing this response to tell me my new valve, rockers and trunnions are in. He suggested now would be a good time to put some long tube headers and X pipe on it. Any recommendations? It's not a daily driver, but its not a garage queen either. Thanks again for all the help
are you doing an engine out? heads out only? or doing rocker swaps with the head on?
First, thanks to each of you for responding! I really appreciate it.
It's the stock trunnions. I don't know why they didn't upgrade the trunnions when they put the cam in it (trying to save a buck I guess). The cam and valve springs have got about 20,000 miles on them, maybe 4 or 5 years old. The car has right at 80K on it now.
I pulled the spark plug for the #6 piston and put the scope in there. There wasn't any apparent damage but I'll find out more when I pull the heads. The good thing is I only had to drive it about 15 miles once I noticed it running "different", so I'm hoping the damage is minimal.
Fortunately whoever installed the cam, replaced the pushrods with chromemoly pushrods. The one for the affected cylinder was only very slightly bent, but I've ordered all new just to be safe.
The speed shop called as I was finishing this response to tell me my new valve, rockers and trunnions are in. He suggested now would be a good time to put some long tube headers and X pipe on it. Any recommendations? It's not a daily driver, but its not a garage queen either. Thanks again for all the help
What trunnions are you going back in with?
I would recommend Kooks for headers and x-pipe. Kooks are the only brand that I have never had fitment problems with on any car I have put them on. I had a set of ARH headers on my C6. I got tired of trying to figure out a solution to the transmission lines rubbing on the passenger side header. I know a lot of people like ARH, but their fitment on the passenger side header is not good. Many times it is too close to the frame pinch weld (ARH's instructions still say that "minor clearancing may be necessary"); no issue with Kooks. And the transmission cooler lines will either rub or be very close to the passenger side header; again no issue with Kooks.
The top of the intake valve was worn so the plan is to pull the passenger side head and replace the valve and take a closer look for the remaining needle bearings. I figured if I'm pulling one head, I might as well do both of them. If I don't find the rest of the bearings, I'll be dropping the oil pan, but I've got a feeling there's more in there. That's the current plan anyway. I've never gone this deep into a motor, so I'm taking it slow and trying to do my homework. After I get it all back together, I'll for sure take it to get it tuned.
I went with the TSP rockers and trunnions and new BTR pushrods.That's what the guy at the speed shop recommended. They (the shop) have a lot of good reviews about them being honest and not trying to upsell so I've been leaning into their suggestions so far. And again I'm grateful for you guys sharing your expertise as well!
All I've heard is good stuff about the Kook's so thanks for backing that up. Did you wrap yours? Did you have any problem with the heat affecting the starter, clutch line or fuel lines?
Again, thank you for your help, comments and suggestions.
The top of the intake valve was worn so the plan is to pull the passenger side head and replace the valve and take a closer look for the remaining needle bearings. I figured if I'm pulling one head, I might as well do both of them. If I don't find the rest of the bearings, I'll be dropping the oil pan, but I've got a feeling there's more in there. That's the current plan anyway. I've never gone this deep into a motor, so I'm taking it slow and trying to do my homework. After I get it all back together, I'll for sure take it to get it tuned.
I went with the TSP rockers and trunnions and new BTR pushrods.That's what the guy at the speed shop recommended. They (the shop) have a lot of good reviews about them being honest and not trying to upsell so I've been leaning into their suggestions so far. And again I'm grateful for you guys sharing your expertise as well!
All I've heard is good stuff about the Kook's so thanks for backing that up. Did you wrap yours? Did you have any problem with the heat affecting the starter, clutch line or fuel lines?
Again, thank you for your help, comments and suggestions.
good to hear heads are coming off. buy new lifters and new lifter trays (or link bar lifters) while youre in there. Do not buy Ls7 lifters unless its from a reputable source, or that will be your next source of contention. I will bet the remainder of your bearings will be in the head passages.
next time i do my rockers, im probably going shaft mounted for more rigidity and less likelihood of failing bearings.
When the head is off and before the headers go on, heat wrap your clutch, fuel line and starter. they have velcro+heat shielding material you can easily put wrap with. If you have OEM clutch line, you should look at the upgrade some folks do, which cuts off the rubber crimped flex portion of the clutch line and instead replaces it with a stainless or steel flex line and compression fittings. line is still flexible, but is now replaceable if it starts leaking.
The top of the intake valve was worn so the plan is to pull the passenger side head and replace the valve and take a closer look for the remaining needle bearings. I figured if I'm pulling one head, I might as well do both of them. If I don't find the rest of the bearings, I'll be dropping the oil pan, but I've got a feeling there's more in there. That's the current plan anyway. I've never gone this deep into a motor, so I'm taking it slow and trying to do my homework. After I get it all back together, I'll for sure take it to get it tuned.
I went with the TSP rockers and trunnions and new BTR pushrods.That's what the guy at the speed shop recommended. They (the shop) have a lot of good reviews about them being honest and not trying to upsell so I've been leaning into their suggestions so far. And again I'm grateful for you guys sharing your expertise as well!
All I've heard is good stuff about the Kook's so thanks for backing that up. Did you wrap yours? Did you have any problem with the heat affecting the starter, clutch line or fuel lines?
Again, thank you for your help, comments and suggestions.
The TSP rockers and trunnions looks good. It is a roller bearing trunnion which I prefer over the bushings. I'm running the BTR shaft rocker system which I like a lot. Is very rigid with no side to side movement.
Yes, I wrapped my Kooks with the DEI lava rock based wrap from the manifold flange down to the collectors. It does cut down on the heat a lot. I also used the DEI Hi-Temp Silicone Spray coating after wrapping as it helps to keeps any fine strands of the wrap from flaking off. I've never had any problems with heat from the headers with the starter, clutch, or fuel lines. I'm sure this is mostly because of the heat wrap but I also try to secure all lines as far from the headers as possible.
As others have recommended if you are pulling the heads and doing upgrades, I would also use the opportunity to upgrade the lifters. Link bar Johnsons would be ideal. I am running the Johnson 2110R drop in lifters myself with new geniune GM trays; I wanted to make sure the lifters were not the week point in the engine.
I admit I waffled over the bearing vs. bushing trunnions. Thanks for the input there. Thanks too for the heads up about the lifters and trays, I hadn't planned to replace them, but what you say makes sense. I plan to start on it today. I typed everything into AI and asked it to create a flow chart/check list (bc I'm a checklist guy) and hopefully I don't overlook anything. We'll see how that works out. I take it with a grain of salt bc it's made mistakes in the past, but hopefully it will be a loose guideline. Thank you again for the advice and recommendations! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!
I admit I waffled over the bearing vs. bushing trunnions. Thanks for the input there. Thanks too for the heads up about the lifters and trays, I hadn't planned to replace them, but what you say makes sense. I plan to start on it today. I typed everything into AI and asked it to create a flow chart/check list (bc I'm a checklist guy) and hopefully I don't overlook anything. We'll see how that works out. I take it with a grain of salt bc it's made mistakes in the past, but hopefully it will be a loose guideline. Thank you again for the advice and recommendations! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!
No problem.
If I was replacing my lifters right now, I would go with the Johnson link bar equivalents of the 2110R's. Can eliminate the trays and eliminate a potential failure point. It really depends on what you want to spend. At the time when I put the Johnson 2110R's in my car, I was trying to save some money but also wanted to go with the best stock style lifter.
As others have mentioned, it is not a bad idea at all to heat wrap the brake, fuel, and clutch lines that are near the headers on the drivers side even if you wrap the headers. DEI has excellent heat wraps that use velcro. I used this to protect some wiring on my 2017 Camaro SS that is near the headers.
I dont believe it could ever enter the combustion chamber. However, worst case scenario would likely be if it ever got through the oil pickup (very unlikely) and locked up an oil pump.
Most likely scenario is it's sitting in the lifter trays.
If i remember correctly oil is the only fluid in the heads where the rockers sit and the oil pathway there is:
oil pan->pickup->pump-> supply->filter->cooler->to lifters->pushrods->rocker arms-drain down to pan. Crank gets oil at the same location as the lifters (?)
if anything were to scatter under the valve cover, it would stay in the head, drop into the lifter hole, or drop down the drain holes into the pan.
If the bearing got picked up, it would 100% lock up in the pump and never make it past there. There is no oil feed hole in the head to drain backwards into.
So... in my opinion, full failure or no issue. POTENTIALLY cause some valve spring breakage if it gets between some coils and binds it up. The rubbish caused by the rocker being thrown around is likely more damaging.
If by chance the needles make it to the oil pan and get sucked into the pump, the pump will tear itself up trying to pump it through. The bearing is probably harder than the pump. The filter will catch the bits, but there could be damage to the pump. If you see a reduction in oil pressure, this could be the source.
Thanks for the info! I'm at the age where I'd rather pay more for quality, if it's reasonable, than to save a few bucks and chance that it's gonna fail on me. I'll start looking at those tonight.
If by chance the needles make it to the oil pan and get sucked into the pump, the pump will tear itself up trying to pump it through. The bearing is probably harder than the pump. The filter will catch the bits, but there could be damage to the pump. If you see a reduction in oil pressure, this could be the source.
Thanks! I read that the needle bearings are too big to get through the pickup screen, but I guess it could pick up some small "shrapnel".
Failed trunnion 2011 GS LS3
I take it with a grain of salt bc it's made mistakes in the past, but hopefully it will be a loose guideline. Thank you again for the advice and recommendations! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!
