twincam47

[QUOTE]It must be frustrating to Police officers to enforce the law with all of these petty things in their way like, The Bill of Right's. Police work in this Country is challenging because of this. It's almost like their frustration to stop the drag racing threw all common sense out the window. "lets go down their and arrest eveyone" attitude obviously doesn't go over very well in this Country.

One sentence from Aquirre makes me want to re think this whole approach. He said sense the traffic division wasn't going to be involved in the raid, he tried to take extra precautions to prevent major accidents. Here's an idea, don't go in there like that and MAJOR ACCIDENTS won't happen. It's almost like cops that chase people through the city for very minor traffic violations but put everyones' lives at risk because "we can't let them get away" mentality.
Those people in the parking lot weren't hurting anyone, and a simple drive through would have dispersed the crowd. I have seen that in cases where the city doesn't use these tactics that the Police actually get out of there cars and mingles with the crowd. The crowd doesn't mind because we are just "hangin". At the same time they are telling the ones that are littering to stop, check the ones that look to young to be out their and makes sure everyone is drug and alcohol free.

:flag Minor Traffic Offense? Lets not mix Apples and Oranges here. Lets put the evading arrest on the CROOKS.....
That minor traffic violation could have been committed by the next discovered serial killer...
Cops don't have ESP and don't know whats in the minds of the ones that run.
:confused: How far would you chase the guy that just drove off in your vette and how
many people would you endanger trying to stop him? :eek:

Scott97

A pic of 3 of the highly dangerous hooligans. :lol:



Ben DeSoto / Chronicle
Leslie Rickie, 20, left, holds a restaurant receipt timed at "0:35 8/18/02", as she poses with friends, Emily Demmler, 19, and Cori Lopez, 20. The three were arrested during the Westheimer Kmart raid early Sunday morning and plan to file complaints against police.
• Editorial: Understatement to say Kmart raid badly handled

........................................ .


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aug. 19, 2002, 6:49PM

POOR TECHNIQUE
Understatement to say Kmart raid was badly handled
There must be a number of different ways police could have handled complaints they received about drag-racing around west Houston neighborhoods and teenagers loitering in a nearby Kmart parking lot. Houston police officers apparently chose the second worst way of dealing with the situation -- short of actually firing upon the several hundred young people congregating in the parking lot of the huge variety store.

Not long after midnight Saturday night, scores of police officers swarmed over the Kmart parking lot in the 8400 block of Westheimer and arrested 278 people, most for criminal trespassing, which is a misdemeanor. Apparently, the officers had been instructed to target drag racers who had been annoying area residents and business owners. When none was found, it seems that the captain in charge ordered officers to place everyone on the scene under arrest. A number of cars were towed.

Sure, there were probably scads of kids who were hanging out in front of the 24-hour shopping center, some playing loud music or perhaps engaging in underage drinking or drug use. The store reportedly is a social mecca for young people looking to see and be seen late at night.

But the police should have given everyone an opportunity to leave of their own accord along with a warning that they'd be arrested if they did not promptly comply. They could have arrested those they saw engaged in obvious illegal activity.

What they did rather -- given several reports that share the ring of truth -- was to round up young people indiscriminately, including shoppers who happened out of the store at the wrong time, patrons of a nearby hamburger joint and at least one 10-year-old girl who became separated from her father in the law enforcement-induced melee. All were restrained in plastic handcuffs, forced to spend the night in jail or juvenile detention and post hundreds of dollars in bail.

Houston police can expect a slew of complaints from angry parents and young adults caught up in the poorly executed raid. The cost of any lawsuits filed will be borne by the innocent taxpayers. HPD owes them at least a pledge that this incident will be thoroughly investigated, as the police chief has called for. When completed, stern disciplinary action should be meted out -- to those who deserve it.

Steve02C5

I like and agree............super idea............wanna be Chief?
There might be an opening

Rest assured, when Lee "Roy" Brown is replaced as mayor, in the upcoming mayoral election, Mr. Bradford will be looking for a new home for his badge, maybe Humble :lol: :lol:

twincam47

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rest assured, when Lee "Roy" Brown is replaced as mayor, in the upcoming mayoral election, Mr. Bradford will be looking for a new home for his badge, maybe Humble [/QUOTE]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Absolutely NOT.............I'LL MOVE :smash:
I also understand Houston is doing a study to annex Friendswood :lol:


[Modified by twincam47, 10:37 PM 8/28/2002]

4cefed

I've had two cars stolen, as soon as the burned out hulks were identified the case was closed. Nobody chasing those crooks. Easier to raise insurance rates instead of catching those crooks. Just like it's easier to just arrest everyone instead of warning everyone to leave. Yes, that way you still have to do it every week but something about braking crowds up does not sit well with me being an American. I have the freedom to assemble, I know you will say I don't becasue of city ordinances but I still believe I have the right to assemble. Catch me drag racing or littering or breaking the law other than assembly than ticket me, arrest me but don't if I am not doing any thing wrong. Law enforcement is tough in this Country because of some of the limitations our Constitution gaurantee's us.
Obviously most police officers do a great job everyday to just have all that hard work go down the tubes because of a few out of control and what happened down in Houston is a little scary to me.

Snowman

6 More Sergeants Named Under HPD Suspension
The Houston Police Department identified six more sergeants Tuesday who were suspended with pay this week in the department's investigation of the arrests of hundreds of people in a west Houston parking lot Aug. 18. HPD has announced 13 suspensions since Saturday, but six of the officers were sick or on vacation and were not notified until Tuesday. The suspended sergeants identified Tuesday are: A.K. King, Eastside patrol; J.T. Lewis, Southwest patrol; K.R. Maeker, Westside patrol; J.W. McClellan, Westside patrol; E.G. Shoppe, Southeast patrol; and K.E. Wenzel, South-central patrol. The 13 suspensions include two captains, two lieutenants and nine sergeants. Police officials would not comment on the suspensions because of an investigation by HPD's Internal Affairs Division. Capt. Mark A. Aguirre, who oversaw the raid, was suspended Saturday. Police said he tried to influence other officers' statements to investigators about the incident. Chief C.O. Bradford is expected to reveal some details today to the City Council.


I saw Bradford on TV tonight in his report to City Council. He claims to have known nothing about the raid. It reminds me a little of the Arthur Anderson knee jerk response to the Worldcom scandal (the 4Billion that ended up being 8) when they said "The CFO lied to us what do you expect?" Well then they have a choice. Do they want to be seen as criminals or just merely incompetent? Sheesh!

They say tonight that all the fines, towing charges etc may be reimbursed by the City. Somehow, I don't think that is going to stop the city from being sued.

Doug

Z500HP

Snowman, I'll have to agree. If I had been a patron at K-Mart that evening and wrongly arrested I would not have gone down without a fight . More so I would be suing the hell out of someone and stirring up more sh@^! than you can imagine!!!

This is getting more insane by the minute and is LLLONNNNNGGG from over :boxing

Cops with guns and badges have way to much power in their minds. Being suspended I bet their attitudes change, let's see how TOUGH they are now! :mad

twincam47

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't get me wrong....but assembly is perfectly OK....Shucks I hang out at the Coney Isle in Humble...The management loves us, profits rise about 500%
on Saturday Nights.......I would make sure that it was OK with the person that owns the property the assembly occurs on....THAT PERSON is the one that would have to initiate the Police Response, unless it was on a public street or public property and "IT" created a problem.
And yes I wouldn't want to be judged by someone elses mistakes........................BUT, there are "probably" somethings that aren't public yet...
and I would reserve the right not to prejudge based the news media reports.......Everyones opinion is important and guaranteed but to me the jury is still out until all the facts are in. :flag
PS. the chasing thing was directed toward...vehicle chases for minor traffic offenses and I used the vette thingy as an example of what people feel towards the Police and what a Civilian would do if it was thier property...kind of a double standard thing. I apoligize if I was misunderstood in what I was trying to say.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

twincam47

Lets not forget "and this will P__ you off"* SUSPENDED="RELEIVED OF DUTY WITH PAY". :mad


[Modified by twincam47, 11:53 PM 8/28/2002]

twincam47

[QUOTE]Snowman, I'll have to agree. If I had been a patron at K-Mart that evening and wrongly arrested I would not have gone down without a fight .
________________________________________ ________________________________________ ________________________________________
Careful.......The resisting arrest charge doesn't matter if the original arrest was LEGAL or ILLEGAL as long as the Officer was acting in Good Faith.
Good Faith=what he believed to be a good arrest.......This wouldn't dismiss his accountability later.....but it wouldn't dismiss the arrested persons either.
This one ought to start a bunch of Flaming on me. I'm just telling you what "YOUR" laws say.
Information provided here is not certified by the board of legal specialization. :crazy:
PS.. the gun part just ensures that Officers might have a chance to come home to thier families at night....Power? the chief says they can't even arrest anyone without 3 supervisors permission, a mother may I and please with sugar on top. :cool:

Z500HP

Not very much $$$ and not for LONG!! Even though I get mad at situations like this, law officers in general are severely underpaid.

It's the few bad apples that irritate me and spoil it for the rest. These officers in particular should be "CANNED WITHOUT PAY" :reddevil

Steve02C5

"Careful.......The resisting arrest charge doesn't matter if the original arrest was LEGAL or ILLEGAL as long as the Officer was acting in Good Faith.
Good Faith=what he believed to be a good arrest .......This wouldn't dismiss his accountability later.....but it wouldn't dismiss the arrested persons either "

One officer was quoted as saying he was uncomfortable w/ the operation, that it was a "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" attitude. This attitude doesn't meet the "good faith" defense to me, however, I'm not a lawyer but I have been a juror who had the last say. Speaking of juror, I've got jury duty the whole week of 9Sep, wonder if any of my buds will be there.

twincam47, just wanted you to know I have the highest regard for your profession. I used to roommate w/ a HPD officer many years ago and would ride w/ him on Fri. and Sat. nites which was an eye opener. I've been shot at while w/ him, been on several 'officer down' calls and even seen him kneed in the groin while helping a suspect into the back seat of the patrol car. It's truly unfortunate an 'operation gone bad' overshadows all the good you officers do on a daily basis. You guys are the 'last defense' separating us good guys from the dregs of humanity. I'll not let the K Mart fiasco change my positive attitude towards law enforcement and would hope my fellow Vette owners won't either. :cheers:

twincam47

thanks guys....I'm just trying to share a perspective from the other side of the fence.


:flag

4cefed

Where did your handle come from, I'm curious.

Wheelman

damn im really glad my car is in the shop, because i was thinking of going out to westheimer that weekend. Although i coulda used a nice fat settlement. :D

vert2go89

And Houston wonders why they didn't get the olympic city pick.They lost the pick due to Houston not being well known as an international city.So Brown says since their try for olympic bid they are more well known now.
After this fiasco at K-Mart Houston should be well known as the city that arrests kids for eating ice cream and shopping KMart.
Yeah Brown you got mucho kuddos for this fine example of Houston hospitality.

Snowman

twincam,

Thanks for hanging in there with us and keeping things distinct.

Doug

twincam47

Been outta town the last few days...thanks for LETTING me hang in there.
W :chevy