Northern Corvette Feedback
05-23-2015, 11:53 AM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Northern Corvette Feedback
At the end of December I bought the '57 Corvette that Northern Corvette had for sale here:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-for-sale.html
The whole deal ended on a sour note, and here's how it went down. We went back and forth with pm's (which I would be glad to post here) and I said I would pay $35,000 for the car if the car was as described. The car was in Canada, (a 12 hour round trip) so I had to apply to get an enhanced driver's license to come and see it. From the time I said I'd buy the car until I could go was 3 weeks. When I arrived to look at the car, within only a few minutes of looking at it, I was pretty disappointed. He had said the body was really nice where the only evidence of fiberglass work was a little around the passenger side headlight. When I stuck my head under the fender, I immediately saw that the whole fender had been replaced (not very professionally) and there was an Eckler's sticker visible in the fiberglass. No bonding strips, of course. Under the dash there was blueish green compound slathered around, and the driver's rear fender lip had been repaired all the way around, again rather poorly.
His description of the chrome parts: "some ok for driver, some needs rechrome" (see pics below)
There were snaps for a cover installed on the deck lid trim (ruined), and only one piece of the side cove trim, along with the small corner pieces is usable, the rest is junk.
"Original door panels are there and would clean up"
"Gauges all there and complete, as well as radio" "Worked when removed from car" (again, see pics)
The point is that I was really disappointed that the car and a lot of the parts were not as described, and obviously a whole lot more money would have to be spent on parts, and it would take a lot more work to make a nice car out of it. I told him as much and said at this point I'd probably pass on it. During that discussion he said someone had called that day and offered $35,500 for it. I told him $35,000 was too much for me after seeing the car in person, and I drove away that afternoon. I figured at that point it was about a $30,000 car, and thought I was out of the running because he said he had already had offers in the low $30's and he had this new offer.
Well, he started an email exchange after I got home and we had polite negotiations over the next couple of days. We agreed on $31,000 cash and we would meet halfway there on that Saturday. At some point around then he said something about the radio not being the original one, but he had one for the car. Okay, he's a part's dealer, for all I know he had 6 of them for a'57 Corvette- it didn't mean anything to me because a few of the parts weren't for/from a '57. When we met to do the deal, I asked about the radio, and he said he didn't bring it, and I said he could ship it to me. I got the car home and sorted things out, and once everything was unpacked, I saw a lot of odd and end stuff was not there. And again, his words from his ad: "Only thing missing I know of is engine and tranny". I sent an email:
"James- Once I got everything unpacked, I realized there were several missing parts that I assumed would/should have been included with the car. Hopefully you've got another box with some of this stuff in it?
Radio (we discussed)
speaker grilles (3) and chrome bezel
windshield wiper motor
gas door lid
clock
access panels for both doors (4, 2 small and 2 large)
glove box door
door panel metal trim plates (latch area)
upper door panel metal rails
sill plates
1 defrost vent
rear bumper brace (long horizontal one in trunk)
large splash shield on passenger side
LH soft top latch (on the top)
driveshaft
Thanks- Rich"
His reply:
"Clock was in box, I saw it in there and looked at it. I gave you everything I got with car, I thought you went over car a few times and verified everything and the deal was $31k based on what you saw and as is. That's why I lowered price, based on what you said and saw and that I needed to move car. I can check what I have here, but only other thing I got with car was the FI unit and a 1969 softop."
Well, there was no clock, and I just figured I was out of luck on those items. But, this began a 3 month back and forth, mainly about the radio (which was advertised with the car, mind you) and the next thing he said about that was the radio he had was one that looked like a '57, but didn't say Wonderbar on it. Fine, I thought, it's probably a '56 radio. At least I'll have a Corvette radio that's worth something. He kept saying he would send me pics of it (I'm thinking why?- just send me the radio) and this is what he finally sends a pic of on March 30:https://web.mail.comcast.net/service...auth=co&disp=i
Okay, hardly a Corvette radio. After that our email exchange quickly degenerated and at the end he accuses me of having the clock and lying about it (I wish I did have it- the ones I've looked at are $350-$500) calls me an "opportunist" for beating him down on price because I knew he had to "move the car" (remember, I walked away from the car- he pursued me for the deal). In our final email exchange, I finally understood that he thinks I "wronged" him by not paying the full $35,000 (for a car that wasn't what he said it was) and he pretty much admitted he was going to get close to that one way or another:
"Live up to your offer and send me the $4000 and I'll give you what's in the ad. Go try to scam someone else with your missing clock and other ******** stories to get more stuff for free."
The bottom line is this- he never came out and said that he would take $31,000, but at that price it wouldn't include the radio, or other certain things (I would have said no thanks obviously). He wasn't up front with me. He makes it sound now like if I didn't see it or lay hands on it when I was there, I don't get it. The first thing I asked for in a pm in the beginning was a list of the parts that came with it. He said that was too hard to do, he would send pics. All the parts were in boxes, and it would have taken 2 days to look at each and every piece. There is always a certain amount of trust that goes along in these deals, and I can see now that that was a big mistake in this case with this vendor. I figure I'm out at least $1000-$1200 for the radio, and while I was actually going to give him a pass on the clock originally, (he said he saw it in a box- I said maybe he was thinking of the generator) either way I'll say I'm out the $350-$500 on that too, since he's done nothing more than accuse me of "stealing" it. The other list of parts totals about $1000, and I can't say whether or not those parts were ever there- you guys be the judge.
Rich
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-for-sale.html
The whole deal ended on a sour note, and here's how it went down. We went back and forth with pm's (which I would be glad to post here) and I said I would pay $35,000 for the car if the car was as described. The car was in Canada, (a 12 hour round trip) so I had to apply to get an enhanced driver's license to come and see it. From the time I said I'd buy the car until I could go was 3 weeks. When I arrived to look at the car, within only a few minutes of looking at it, I was pretty disappointed. He had said the body was really nice where the only evidence of fiberglass work was a little around the passenger side headlight. When I stuck my head under the fender, I immediately saw that the whole fender had been replaced (not very professionally) and there was an Eckler's sticker visible in the fiberglass. No bonding strips, of course. Under the dash there was blueish green compound slathered around, and the driver's rear fender lip had been repaired all the way around, again rather poorly.
His description of the chrome parts: "some ok for driver, some needs rechrome" (see pics below)
There were snaps for a cover installed on the deck lid trim (ruined), and only one piece of the side cove trim, along with the small corner pieces is usable, the rest is junk.
"Original door panels are there and would clean up"
"Gauges all there and complete, as well as radio" "Worked when removed from car" (again, see pics)
The point is that I was really disappointed that the car and a lot of the parts were not as described, and obviously a whole lot more money would have to be spent on parts, and it would take a lot more work to make a nice car out of it. I told him as much and said at this point I'd probably pass on it. During that discussion he said someone had called that day and offered $35,500 for it. I told him $35,000 was too much for me after seeing the car in person, and I drove away that afternoon. I figured at that point it was about a $30,000 car, and thought I was out of the running because he said he had already had offers in the low $30's and he had this new offer.
Well, he started an email exchange after I got home and we had polite negotiations over the next couple of days. We agreed on $31,000 cash and we would meet halfway there on that Saturday. At some point around then he said something about the radio not being the original one, but he had one for the car. Okay, he's a part's dealer, for all I know he had 6 of them for a'57 Corvette- it didn't mean anything to me because a few of the parts weren't for/from a '57. When we met to do the deal, I asked about the radio, and he said he didn't bring it, and I said he could ship it to me. I got the car home and sorted things out, and once everything was unpacked, I saw a lot of odd and end stuff was not there. And again, his words from his ad: "Only thing missing I know of is engine and tranny". I sent an email:
"James- Once I got everything unpacked, I realized there were several missing parts that I assumed would/should have been included with the car. Hopefully you've got another box with some of this stuff in it?
Radio (we discussed)
speaker grilles (3) and chrome bezel
windshield wiper motor
gas door lid
clock
access panels for both doors (4, 2 small and 2 large)
glove box door
door panel metal trim plates (latch area)
upper door panel metal rails
sill plates
1 defrost vent
rear bumper brace (long horizontal one in trunk)
large splash shield on passenger side
LH soft top latch (on the top)
driveshaft
Thanks- Rich"
His reply:
"Clock was in box, I saw it in there and looked at it. I gave you everything I got with car, I thought you went over car a few times and verified everything and the deal was $31k based on what you saw and as is. That's why I lowered price, based on what you said and saw and that I needed to move car. I can check what I have here, but only other thing I got with car was the FI unit and a 1969 softop."
Well, there was no clock, and I just figured I was out of luck on those items. But, this began a 3 month back and forth, mainly about the radio (which was advertised with the car, mind you) and the next thing he said about that was the radio he had was one that looked like a '57, but didn't say Wonderbar on it. Fine, I thought, it's probably a '56 radio. At least I'll have a Corvette radio that's worth something. He kept saying he would send me pics of it (I'm thinking why?- just send me the radio) and this is what he finally sends a pic of on March 30:https://web.mail.comcast.net/service...auth=co&disp=i
Okay, hardly a Corvette radio. After that our email exchange quickly degenerated and at the end he accuses me of having the clock and lying about it (I wish I did have it- the ones I've looked at are $350-$500) calls me an "opportunist" for beating him down on price because I knew he had to "move the car" (remember, I walked away from the car- he pursued me for the deal). In our final email exchange, I finally understood that he thinks I "wronged" him by not paying the full $35,000 (for a car that wasn't what he said it was) and he pretty much admitted he was going to get close to that one way or another:
"Live up to your offer and send me the $4000 and I'll give you what's in the ad. Go try to scam someone else with your missing clock and other ******** stories to get more stuff for free."
The bottom line is this- he never came out and said that he would take $31,000, but at that price it wouldn't include the radio, or other certain things (I would have said no thanks obviously). He wasn't up front with me. He makes it sound now like if I didn't see it or lay hands on it when I was there, I don't get it. The first thing I asked for in a pm in the beginning was a list of the parts that came with it. He said that was too hard to do, he would send pics. All the parts were in boxes, and it would have taken 2 days to look at each and every piece. There is always a certain amount of trust that goes along in these deals, and I can see now that that was a big mistake in this case with this vendor. I figure I'm out at least $1000-$1200 for the radio, and while I was actually going to give him a pass on the clock originally, (he said he saw it in a box- I said maybe he was thinking of the generator) either way I'll say I'm out the $350-$500 on that too, since he's done nothing more than accuse me of "stealing" it. The other list of parts totals about $1000, and I can't say whether or not those parts were ever there- you guys be the judge.
Rich
05-23-2015, 12:24 PM
#2
Former Vendor
Member Since: May 2013
Location: Thorold Ontario
Posts: 3,297
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To see that you post this 5 months after the deal shows what's really going on. If you were that upset when you bought it, you would have made a post or did something well before now. It's very simple, you agreed on $35,000, I held car for you, you came there and spent nearly 3 hours going over the car and looking through boxes. You then left and said it wasn't what you were expecting and I said no problem. I then contacted you to see if there was any deal left. You then went on and on about what was missing and about headlight/fender repair which I told you about. You used all these points to lower the price to $31,000. Then you take the car, and immediately send me an email hours later with a huge list of parts you want for the car. To use the missing parts to get price down and then ask for all those parts after you make deal was dirty to say the least. And you also failed to post pics of all the new number parts and NOS trim and parts you received. You pick out the 5 worse parts and post, well done.
Also you failed to mention, I told you many times, if unhappy with your purchase I'll gladly take the car back and refund your money. Obviously you don't want to do that as you still got a deal on the car, and good luck finding another at that price. You tried to extort all these Extra parts from me, and now have sour grapes and post this 5 months later. It's a little tough to say I misrepresented car and did all these things when you looked the car and parts over for 3 hours.
Offer still stands, bring the car back for full refund.
Also you failed to mention, I told you many times, if unhappy with your purchase I'll gladly take the car back and refund your money. Obviously you don't want to do that as you still got a deal on the car, and good luck finding another at that price. You tried to extort all these Extra parts from me, and now have sour grapes and post this 5 months later. It's a little tough to say I misrepresented car and did all these things when you looked the car and parts over for 3 hours.
Offer still stands, bring the car back for full refund.
Last edited by Northern Corvette; 05-23-2015 at 12:27 PM.
05-23-2015, 04:24 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Hmm.... where to begin. 5 months? Absolutely. Tell me about it. This dragged on via email for 3 1/2 of those months. You went for 1 month without responding at all at one point. I spent the last month debating whether it was worth posting this or not.
And I wasn't upset when I bought the car- I thought I would get the radio advertised with the car and that would be that. Little did I know you would jerk me around on it for 3 1/2 months. Read the copy of my email. Did I expected those parts to be included? Well, yeah, you said the only thing missing was the motor and trans. (Again, your words from your ad). I never "demanded" them, only asked if you forgot a box of parts that I should have gotten, so how is that "dirty"? I would have let all that slide (except for the radio) but you went off on the clock and how you were sure it was there, you saw it, had a pic of it in the box (which you never produced), the other guy that looked at the car saw it, etc., and started getting accusatory. And you keep saying how I used those missing parts to get the price down. How did I manage that when I didn't even know they were missing until after I got the car home???? You've never answered this. It was about the condition of everything.
And pray-tel, what in the world are you talking about with "all the new number parts and NOS trim"??? The only things "new" included with the car were a convertible top canvas dated 1987, and a box of weatherstripping that's probably just as old (how many guys here think it will work out using any of those items?). So let's keep this discussion factual. And I could post dozens of other pics on condition, I was just trying to give people the general idea on why less was offered.
"Also you failed to mention, I told you many times, if unhappy with your purchase I'll gladly take the car back and refund your money."
Alright, your credibility on this insincere offer is zero. For starters, you made the offer a grand total of once in an email on April 12, not "many times". And as I replied then, did you think I have been doing nothing with the car in those 3 1/2 months? As I offered back, sure, you can have the car back if you want to also pay me the additional $4000 I have put into it (as of today, more like $8000).
I want to stress to any Forum readers that I love the car and I'm having fun restoring it, but this ordeal has left kind of a blemish on things. I think you were deceptive at best about the radio, which you originally said you had and was included in the deal and then changed the story on. Again, there's a certain amount of trust that has to be involved in these deals, and I can see I made a mistake in doing so.
And I wasn't upset when I bought the car- I thought I would get the radio advertised with the car and that would be that. Little did I know you would jerk me around on it for 3 1/2 months. Read the copy of my email. Did I expected those parts to be included? Well, yeah, you said the only thing missing was the motor and trans. (Again, your words from your ad). I never "demanded" them, only asked if you forgot a box of parts that I should have gotten, so how is that "dirty"? I would have let all that slide (except for the radio) but you went off on the clock and how you were sure it was there, you saw it, had a pic of it in the box (which you never produced), the other guy that looked at the car saw it, etc., and started getting accusatory. And you keep saying how I used those missing parts to get the price down. How did I manage that when I didn't even know they were missing until after I got the car home???? You've never answered this. It was about the condition of everything.
And pray-tel, what in the world are you talking about with "all the new number parts and NOS trim"??? The only things "new" included with the car were a convertible top canvas dated 1987, and a box of weatherstripping that's probably just as old (how many guys here think it will work out using any of those items?). So let's keep this discussion factual. And I could post dozens of other pics on condition, I was just trying to give people the general idea on why less was offered.
"Also you failed to mention, I told you many times, if unhappy with your purchase I'll gladly take the car back and refund your money."
Alright, your credibility on this insincere offer is zero. For starters, you made the offer a grand total of once in an email on April 12, not "many times". And as I replied then, did you think I have been doing nothing with the car in those 3 1/2 months? As I offered back, sure, you can have the car back if you want to also pay me the additional $4000 I have put into it (as of today, more like $8000).
I want to stress to any Forum readers that I love the car and I'm having fun restoring it, but this ordeal has left kind of a blemish on things. I think you were deceptive at best about the radio, which you originally said you had and was included in the deal and then changed the story on. Again, there's a certain amount of trust that has to be involved in these deals, and I can see I made a mistake in doing so.
05-23-2015, 04:55 PM
#4
Former Vendor
Member Since: May 2013
Location: Thorold Ontario
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
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17 Posts
It has nothing to do with trust. You looked over car and parts for 3 hours and now 5 months later you're complaint about shape of parts. You never mentioned condition of parts up to now, did you just realize all the parts were bad and car was garbage? You bought itaround Christmas and it's now 5 months later. I suppose I'm lying about that also. You said you want to keep it factual, you're doing anything but.
05-23-2015, 06:00 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Yes, it has everything to do with trust. I first trusted your description of the car. Then I trusted I'd get everything with the car as advertised, not minus what you could manipulate out of the deal. And I'm not complaining about the shape of parts, just giving the backstory on the deal to readers, as in why I offered less for the car so they'd see and understand. But it is also downright untrue to say I received a bunch of new and NOS parts with the car. That statement I will complain about.
The 5 months is a ridiculous thing for you to keep bringing up, when it took 3 months for you to even send me a pic of the radio you wanted to have me settle for.
You have a real knack for deflecting the attention away from the issue, which is you were vague and misleading about the radio. Tell me and any readers where I haven't been factual? I would gladly post any and all pm's and emails. And I'd still like you to explain this statement:
"Live up to your offer and send me the $4000 and I'll give you what's in the ad."
The 5 months is a ridiculous thing for you to keep bringing up, when it took 3 months for you to even send me a pic of the radio you wanted to have me settle for.
You have a real knack for deflecting the attention away from the issue, which is you were vague and misleading about the radio. Tell me and any readers where I haven't been factual? I would gladly post any and all pm's and emails. And I'd still like you to explain this statement:
"Live up to your offer and send me the $4000 and I'll give you what's in the ad."
05-23-2015, 06:13 PM
#6
Former Vendor
Member Since: May 2013
Location: Thorold Ontario
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
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17 Posts
If it was just about a missing radio then you wouldn't have pictures complaining about quality when you saw ALL of this stuff BEFORE you bought the car. And I'm deflecting?
All the FACTS are simple. You bought the car and parts after seeing it all and 5 months later post this crap. Very simple facts.
Again, you have all these issues, you could have took refund day one. Instead you spend $4000 then come on here 5 months later? Would you like to return car for $31,000 plus your $4000 then? No, I didn't think so.
Never in my life would I go look at a car for sale, and use the missing parts to get a better price, then call the guy before I even got home and demand all those parts. Then tell everyone how I got ripped off. Nice.
The statement you're all concerned about is extremely simple to understand.
"Live up to your offer and send me the $4000 and I'll give you what's in the ad."
It's means exactly what it says, you said $35k if car was all ad said. You disagreed, and I agreed with you after looking over car more thoroughly, and we lowered price to $31k. Then you expect all the stuff in ad to be fixed after lowering price because of it? Lol, again very nice.
All the FACTS are simple. You bought the car and parts after seeing it all and 5 months later post this crap. Very simple facts.
Again, you have all these issues, you could have took refund day one. Instead you spend $4000 then come on here 5 months later? Would you like to return car for $31,000 plus your $4000 then? No, I didn't think so.
Never in my life would I go look at a car for sale, and use the missing parts to get a better price, then call the guy before I even got home and demand all those parts. Then tell everyone how I got ripped off. Nice.
The statement you're all concerned about is extremely simple to understand.
"Live up to your offer and send me the $4000 and I'll give you what's in the ad."
It's means exactly what it says, you said $35k if car was all ad said. You disagreed, and I agreed with you after looking over car more thoroughly, and we lowered price to $31k. Then you expect all the stuff in ad to be fixed after lowering price because of it? Lol, again very nice.
Last edited by Northern Corvette; 05-23-2015 at 06:55 PM.
05-24-2015, 12:01 AM
#7
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Each party in the dispute has posted his version of the facts. Closing as per site rules:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-feedback.html
If there are any updates, let us know and we'll be glad to add them to this thread.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-feedback.html
If there are any updates, let us know and we'll be glad to add them to this thread.