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Old 03-20-2017, 12:03 PM   #1
AllVettes4Me
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Default Buyer Beware - Do Your Homework -

If you find yourself on the buying side of a deal with 530Planeman I suggest you insist on getting answers to your questions before agreeing to buy whatever it is he is selling.

I bought a 1969 rolling chassis from him in February. The chassis contained an engine, transmission, drive shaft, rear end all connected. The chassis did not roll smoothly but rather was dragged off of the trailer when delivered. I removed the drive shaft which freed up the chassis to roll easily for loading it into my trailer for the transport home.
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I was told the engine had been fired and I could start it up and drive the chassis onto my trailer by the seller. He said he had fired the engine. When I got the chassis the spark plugs had been removed, one valve cover was missing, the carburetor was rusted, and there was no sign of gas smell in the carb.
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I took the engine off of the chassis and began taking the engine apart only to find that the 1968 short block was cracked in two locations, full of dirt and rust, and did not turn freely. There is no way this engine was fired or ran. Not with dirt in the block, and no water or antifreeze in the block, and what appears to be dirty oil in the bottom of engine. One crack produced a hole above the water jacket area.
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When I asked the seller about this he said he sold me the chassis and the transmission and that the engine was a freebie. I paid for a rolling chassis complete including an engine and a transmission which I assumed, my bad, all were in working order because he had inspected and or tested them already.
In his favor he brought the rolling chassis from Kentucky to Georgia at his own expense ($115) and dropped it off at a friendís house on his way to Florida. I hauled the rolling chassis home to Pennsylvania and began to take it apart to work on the frame which I am currently doing. I put new wheels and tires on it because the old ones were not Corvette wheels and tires were going flat.
The engine has a 68 short block; 1982 heads; 1975 intake, and a 1981 carburetor. Not exactly a 1969 engine which is what I was hoping was coming with the 1969 rolling chassis. The transmission is late 1971 and also does not belong to the 1969 chassis. I nicknamed the motor Frankenmotor and was looking forward to restoring the shot block. Not now.
I inquired about what to do about the engine issue with the seller and was told if I bring everything back to him in Kentucky he would refund my money. Iím not looking for a full refund, just trying to understand why the engine was sold as having worked when in fact it could not have given the condition of the block.
I did not do my due diligence because I thought I was being given good information but it is pretty clear now that I was not being dealt with honestly.
Price paid was $2,200 for the rolling chassis with engine and transmission. I paid $500 via PayPal and $1,700 at time of drop off. I was not present when the chassis was dropped off, a friend gave him the money on my behalf.
I am not happy with the transaction or the outcome, not certain anything can be done but would offer caution when dealing with him here on the forum, his vague answers are an indication of potentially deeper issues with what he is selling.
Thank you.
David S. Howard
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:32 PM   #2
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David this whole thing stinks on ice. Can you at least get your deposit back via Paypal?
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:43 PM   #3
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FWIW and not that it matters but the heads look to maybe be a mismatch.
Your passenger side head is 68 or back (camel hump with no bracket holes for accessories)
The drivers side I can not see the camel humps and it looks to have drilled and tapped bosses for accessory mounts) If I had a better picture I would know for sure.
Sorry the deal went south - I hope the rolling chassis was worth the cost.
FWIW - if you really need a 69 date code block I have one that was machined and put on a stand about 7 years ago.
I can dig it out, take some photos and send them your way, if not I totally understand.
It is a bare block only 4 bolt main
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:59 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by avalonjohn View Post
David this whole thing stinks on ice. Can you at least get your deposit back via Paypal?
Man that dam motor has not run in yrs & yrs.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968swbbigblock View Post
FWIW and not that it matters but the heads look to maybe be a mismatch.
Your passenger side head is 68 or back (camel hump with no bracket holes for accessories)
The drivers side I can not see the camel humps and it looks to have drilled and tapped bosses for accessory mounts) If I had a better picture I would know for sure.
Sorry the deal went south - I hope the rolling chassis was worth the cost.
FWIW - if you really need a 69 date code block I have one that was machined and put on a stand about 7 years ago.
I can dig it out, take some photos and send them your way, if not I totally understand.
It is a bare block only 4 bolt main
Good catch. One head is part number 462624. The other head is part number 3917291. They don't match. I will send you a PM on the bare block. Thank you.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avalonjohn View Post
David this whole thing stinks on ice. Can you at least get your deposit back via Paypal?
i think that if he files with PP he will have a better chance of getting his deposit back !! It will most likely be better than if he waits for the seller to respond. I had a deal go south with him as well I filed with PP and waited the required amount of time. Seller never responded to PP emails. They ruled in my favor!!
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:01 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by AJC 69 BB View Post
i think that if he files with PP he will have a better chance of getting his deposit back !! It will most likely be better than if he waits for the seller to respond. I had a deal go south with him as well I filed with PP and waited the required amount of time. Seller never responded to PP emails. They ruled in my favor!!
Good idea.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:55 PM   #8
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I now have time to address what I know of this transaction.
David came to my house in Athens, GA from PA with a trailer full of a great deal on a 75 BODY (fully stripped and including front and rear glass) sitting on a rolling frame (no engine, no trans but rear end intact). He also brought 8 totes of parts, 2 doors, 3 door windows, a full set of original headlight (blasted and in separate tubs from another guy in PA), a set of T-tops from another guy in PA. He and the other 3 guys did a bunch of running around to get all this together for me. When I looked at pics of the rolling chassis, it looked rusted at the mounts. So what did David do?....he threw in a full set of the metal mounts for ALL 8 mounts (over $100) plus another frame that had some better metal that I could cut up and make one perfect frame out of. Told me to look thru the totes to see what I wanted. He would leave his trailer at my place while he went to FL for Carlisle show and Daytona 500. Would be back in 4 days to pick up what I did not need and the "69 rolling chassis" from Wes.
I looked through the totes and found not only stuff I could use for the new project but some stuff that would fit my first project, a racer version similar to David's (and is in my own thread about my resto-mod).
David shows up and I ask him how much for all the extras.....NOTHING he says....use them in good health.
A few items that I needed separate from the original deal were sold to me by Eric, John and Ray - ALL at great prices.

Now how much did ALL of this from David cost me including delivery........$3K ?, $4k ? $5K ?.......NOPE.
$1500....!!!!!!

Now comes the delivery of a "1969 rolling CHASSIS" that David buys sight unseen except for some pics and some conversations regarding details about the deal and what the condition it was in.

I was not privy to the actual emails and conversations but the info posted on the open forum shows a "1969" frame with motor, transmission and rear end.

Seller shows up at my place and a valve cover is missing and the head is exposed but looks like the cover was on it. Seller says, "it must have blown off on the drive down".
My driveway by my shop has a slope down to it. I was concerned that the chassis would take off rolling down off the rental trailer, but it would hardly budge. I went to get my portable winch to pull it off the trailer but seller says it will roll if we push it, the engine compression will keep it tight. No spark plugs in it and the shifter is not hooked up to the trans so no way to tell if in gear or not. So the 3 of us push it off the trailer. I noticed that the right rear tire skidded instead of rolled (could be hung up brake shoe).
I had bought a 16x20 tarp to cover it as it would wait for David's return trip.
Gave the seller his cash that David left with me trusting that this was a fair deal.
I called David and he asked my opinion and to send some pics.
I told him what I just posted here.
I did not check any vin numbers, etc.
David said he hoped it was a good deal and would look it over when he got home.
He thanked me for my help.

In light of what has come to our attention now....I wished I never helped unload this thing. I ASSUMED that we were dealing with an honest seller. That will haunt me.

I have over 700 transactions on ebay both as a seller and a buyer and I can count on one hand the number of bad deals that I had to suck up and accept.
I have had some GREAT dealings with CF members. I personally only have one bad deal with any member....a guy who sold me a heater for my shop at almost full price that ended up being a dud.
But nothing like this deal nor the previously discussed deal with this same seller and another CF member regards a valence. Lucky for that buyer, he was covered by Paypal.
Do we now need to go thru Paypal and make all these deals be itemized along with fees paid in order to protect ourselves?
And be advised....using "Friends and Family" to send money to avoid paying Paypal fees means you give up any protection.

It is a sad day when we cannot count on honesty and integrity from our CF brethren.

Hopefully, this will be resolved properly.

That's all I have to say.

Peace
Dennis (Bman)
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:16 PM   #9
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Hopefully, this will be resolved properly.
well said!!
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:30 PM   #10
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Default Pics of 69 rolling chassis

For those who are interested, here are 7 of the 16 pics I sent to David.
Someone tell me how this motor was started looking like this.
Txs
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:41 AM   #11
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Yesterday I wrote a text message to Wes letting him know that it would be too expensive for me to return the complete chassis for a refund, distance is over 600 miles, due to fuel and wear on my truck and trailer.
I also told him I had filed this transaction feedback and encouraged him to respond to it. Don't know if he will or not.
David
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:59 PM   #12
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Sadly i was in the peanut gallery to the wes sagas,
He told me he was getting a 69 to part out on here,
I was a bit excited as i want the parts for a 4 speed conversion and was hoping i could make payments or something,
My crest fell quickly when i couldn't get good pictures from wes and he seemed to have no interest in having the trans checked by a tech,
The 327 engine was offered to me, i didnt want it but asked about it as i dig the 327 engines and i was told he started it that it runs, i was actually pretty surprized that he said it ran,
Before i knew it david here bought the entire roller, i was happy for him, but still curious what the gear box condition would be, and where to take my hunt.
A day or two ago in the fall out of this and wes other negative transaction on here wes texted me that he did fire this engine off and then in what i took as a blow off of any responsibility or concerns texted me that for the price he sold the chassis the engine was a freebee.
I hope that was something that dh agreed on during making the deal that the buy was a crap shoot gamble.

I am posting this because getted cheated is no fun, have had it happen to me, and i see people here as buddies i dont wanna see a buddy cheated,

What makes this extra irky to me is since all this negativity surrounding wes and his deals on here has been going on wes cant stop bragging about all the money he has, lack of humility aside if that is the case i hope he makes things right with the people he has wronged.

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Old 03-21-2017, 08:06 PM   #13
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Looks like he's full of himself here!!!

03-14-2017 01:26 PM530planeman
L88 sold for all cash picked up down to one 70 corvette and large bank account may have been highest price sale from forum
Thanks
Wes
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Old 03-22-2017, 03:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The13Bats View Post
Sadly i was in the peanut gallery to the wes sagas,
He told me he was getting a 69 to part out on here,
I was a bit excited as i want the parts for a 4 speed conversion and was hoping i could make payments or something,
My crest fell quickly when i couldn't get good pictures from wes and he seemed to have no interest in having the trans checked by a tech,
The 327 engine was offered to me, i didnt want it but asked about it as i dig the 327 engines and i was told he started it that it runs, i was actually pretty surprized that he said it ran,
Before i knew it david here bought the entire roller, i was happy for him, but still curious what the gear box condition would be, and where to take my hunt.
A day or two ago in the fall out of this and wes other negative transaction on here wes texted me that he did fire this engine off and then in what i took as a blow off of any responsibility or concerns texted me that for the price he sold the chassis the engine was a freebee.
I hope that was something that dh agreed on during making the deal that the buy was a crap shoot gamble.

I am posting this because getted cheated is no fun, have had it happen to me, and i see people here as buddies i dont wanna see a buddy cheated,

What makes this extra irky to me is since all this negativity surrounding wes and his deals on here has been going on wes cant stop bragging about all the money he has, lack of humility aside if that is the case i hope he makes things right with the people he has wronged.
Just to clarify, I asked how much he wanted for the engine, transmission, and rolling chassis as a package. He quoted me $2,200 for it all which is what I paid. There was no mention of freebies. I would not have made the deal for $2,200 had I known the engine was useless. As it was I thought it was a 69 engine, and that the chassis was a big block chassis, or so he thought.
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Old 03-22-2017, 04:06 PM   #15
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Anyone who knows me knows I don't sit still and let situations like this rule me, and this one is no exception.

Chassis:
I have already invested more money getting decent wheels and tires on the rolling chassis as well as several hours cutting off and grinding down the many brackets on the frame. I cut the bolts to prevent injury and I will cut the body mounts off when it returns from my media blast shop which is where I loaded and delivered it yesterday. When it returns I will use it to hold my race car body while I work on it's chassis. Afterwards I will take it apart and restore it.

Engine:
I have already taken the engine down to a bare block and it is set to be recycled by another Forum Member's family that owns a metal recycling company. That goes for 99% of the engine, oil pan, and components. I did manage to get a shift boss off the engine which I can use on my 1972 engine build now. The engine crank was forged so I removed it and have it here now. I will have it assessed for use in my 1972 engine build. That is all I could salvage from the engine.

Transmission:
I have not taken the transmission to my local transmission shop yet because I just haven't had the time yet, but I will. If the transmission is in good enough condition I will have it rebuilt. If not, well we have to wait to know condition.

That is where things stand now.

David

Last edited by AllVettes4Me; 03-22-2017 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 03-22-2017, 04:21 PM   #16
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AND STILL NOT A SINGLE WORD ON THE FORUM FROM THE SELLER!

That is a real shame considering who the buyer is.

Hope this ends well.

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Old 03-22-2017, 09:29 PM   #17
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Members, I think there's been enough commentary from those outside the Transaction here.

I am leaving this thread open for an additional short period for either the seller to comment on any dispute regarding the details of this transaction, or for the OP to offer any additional resolution to the situation.
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:50 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJC 69 BB View Post
i think that if he files with PP he will have a better chance of getting his deposit back !! It will most likely be better than if he waits for the seller to respond. I had a deal go south with him as well I filed with PP and waited the required amount of time. Seller never responded to PP emails. They ruled in my favor!!
When I paid the deposit I used friends and family on PayPal and there is no getting that money back even by disputing it. Another lesson learned by me and using PayPal.

If you are using PayPal to pay for items then do so and pay the fees, otherwise you will have no dispute support should something in the transaction go wrong. As the name implies, sending money using friends and family has a level of "trust" that would never warrant a dispute. Live and learn.
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:58 AM   #19
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I have one additional tip for forum members and transactions that may help in the future.

If you are buying and selling here on the Corvette Forum then keep the transaction communications here on the forum. The use of texts, phone calls, and even private e-mails, prevents the forum from searching and finding information regarding any disputed transactions. Unfortunately I will not speak on the phone, or use text, or private mail, any longer to conduct transactions of any value. Smaller items maybe, but nothing of higher value without a history trail here on the forum.

It may seem like a hassle at the time but I wished I had done this from the start on this transaction. If your seller insists on working outside of this system then I suggest you step away from the transaction. Just my thoughts and I hope you find them constructive.

I have nothing more to share on this Vettebuyer6369, I feel mislead and regardless of the outcome of this transaction I will not be buying or selling to 530Planeman again. Left me discouraged.

Thank you for listening and have a good day.

David Howard
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Last edited by AllVettes4Me; 03-23-2017 at 09:35 AM. Reason: Corrected spelling of my forum name, LOL.
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:01 AM   #20
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Administrative review on this and other issues has concluded, and this seller has been removed from the site.
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