Is there really a difference in the quality of the parts used to build a 3pc. wheel!!!! :boxing The only difference possible is the engineering behind the product. There is very few vendors to choose from for forgings and rim halves. The majority of companies producing wheels use the exact same sources for all the components used to produce their wheels, so you may ask why do prices vary so much between companies. It's all about the advertising and name created in the market. Has anyone shown proof of a strength test between Fiske, HRE, Kenises, IForged, RD Sport, and NC carbon Wheels, Probably not because the basic materials are all from the same vendors. So when choosing a wheel it is all based on looks now, What happened to light weight and performance? It seems the consumer became so focused on looks it allows companies to have unskilled engineers designing overweight pretty wheels. 3 pc. Wheels were originally designed to allow for custom fitments, keeping low weight and high strength. Now it seems anyone can order components, come up with a cool design, machine the centers, and build the wheels without a whole lot of engineering. Feel free to email me with questions or comments at billetdezines@aol.com

 

i agree with you 100%. the only reason i would put money into wheels is get better performance for the car. i can kind of see when your paying that much for these aftermarket wheels a lot of people really want something that looks good for what they paid.

 

Top be honest there isn't much differance between rim quailty Fiske, HRE, Kenises, IForged they all outsource the rings and buy them from a differnent manufactor. But there is a differance in weight which must have to do with the center. A 19 inch HRE weighs about 28-29lbs a iFORGED and Fiske 19 weighs about 25. The differance must be in the center design.

The big advantage with a 3pc is if you happen to want to change the width you can send it back to the manufactor and have it widen. Also if it's damaged all you need to do is put a new ring on.

 

Well, by looking at your screen name and your obvious knowledge of the business it seems you hold reservations. Sure the outer rings and hardware are from the same place, but not every Joe shmoe off the street can make a custom 3pc wheel. I myself cannot afford millions of dollars worth of CnC machines, nor can I afford buying lots of 100 rings.

You seem to imply that quality has been sacraficed for looks. What is your evidence of this? What do you know about these companies specifically?

"3 pc. Wheels were originally designed to allow for custom fitments, keeping low weight and high strength"

Last I checked Fikse, iForged, and CCW have pretty light wheels, strong designs, and custom fitments.

Basically your asking whey everyone doesnt seek a pure race wheel. Maybe we don't have pure race cars. Some people, most people want great looking wheels along with the performance. We all know Weld wheels exist, and cheaper wheels exist...but we bought Corvettes not stockcars. Most of use with big 19/20 wheels, also have different wheels for racing.

I would like your insight into the 3pc wheel market. I would like to know what is the major problem as you see it and how can it be fixed. How would you improve upon the wheels. Just lighter? John at CCW does a great job of that. iForged as the FS series which are pretty light, an RS series which are 2pc wheels that are a bit lighter, and a light weight series coming out.
:smash:

 

Billet: That's a pretty aggressive post for your second (granted, this is my first)... do you work for a billet wheel manufacturer?

3-piece wheel weights can vary greatly depending on wheel width, diameter, and "pad height" (this allows for big brake clearance), so it's not fair to say "an HRE weighs "X" and an iForged weighs "Y."

Let's make sure we're comparing apples-to-apples on the weight issue. If you have a similar wheel design, and one is lighter than another, clearly there is a difference in strength if the base material is the same. One needs to ask: do you want the lightest possible wheel, or do you want one to be strong for radial and (especially) cornering loads?

Some of the materials come from the same or similar vendors, but the key is in the design and manufacturing of the centers. Different manufacturers have different strength and test criteria- I suspect some of the wheels are not tested at all, based on the cross-sections I've seen on a few manufacturers styles.

So, the final answer is: three-piece wheels solve problems: You need a 19x11.5? Good luck getting a cast or forged one-piece! You want 18x10 front and 20x13 rear wirth a 'reverse' lip? No problem (for a few three-piece manufacturers, anyway). How about a nice brushed or anodized finish? Your wife curbed a wheel? You decided to tub the 'Vette?

As far as engineering goes, I recommend you visit a few three-piece wheel manufacturers. I submit that the best of the bunch probably do the design, engineering, manufacturing, some finishing, and final assembly in-house. Talk to the engineer, the fitment guy, the sales staff. Find out how long they've been doing it. Who else do they private-label wheels for? OEMs are notoriously hard to please, and have strict quality guidelines that must be met.

For those really focused on 'the business,' it's more than just making wheels- it's about passion, commitment, and enthusiasm.

:cool:


[Modified by GhettoC5, 4:26 PM 3/14/2003]

 

RCswish / Ghettoc5: I do have insight on several 3 piece wheel companies, and will share it with you off the forum if you would like to email me at billetdezines@aol.com.
:thumbs:

GhettoC5: When comparing apples to apples on weight of the same design, the heavier wheel is not always the strongest. It is all in the design of the spoke. Flex plays a major role in three piece wheels, so adding material (weight) to a stress point is an easy fix to a poor design. If you take HRE's wheel and Iforged's wheel in the same size and offset it is fair to say if one is over weight. It shows who took more time in engineering their product. As you said some manufactures have thinner cross sections than others, well some manufactures make vehicle specific wheels allowing them to test to the vehicles weight and horsepower. Others manufacture the same wheel for every vehicle causing unneeded excess weight.

:banghead:

For those "focused on the buisness" it is all about making a huge profit on an overpriced market. A time will come when someone will rely on low margin high volume, instead of the low volume high margin. Then we can see who is still in the market for the passion, commitment, and enthusiasm. :party:

 

I was serious when I said I was interested in what insight you had to this market. So please shoot me an email. Yes there are differences between the rim builders and their designs. For instance, iForged uses a reverse lip drop center design. They use the deepest dish possible which cuts down on the pad and contributes to an over all light wheel without compromising strength. The symetrical design gives better center strength the wheel and keeps a better seal. Some shotty 3pc rim builders will even weld their pieces together to prevent air leaks cause from poor design.

You are correct, the center design contributes to the weight and strength. A mesh design (typical BBS) can be cut thinner while keeping great strength and is ideal for racing. Again, I must remind you that we are not talking about a GT2 race class. These wheels are the Rolexs of rims and there is more involved than just strength and weight they provide. If a Corvette owner buys 20 inch rims, do you really think he is worried about the addition of unsprung weight, or the rims behavior at the 24 hours of Lemans...No, he is paying for the best looking wheel out that has great strength and attention to detail in the design.

If you can "dezine" me a set of billet wheels in the wild size I require, with the quality, attention to detail, and passion for design you speak of....all for less than a set of $3500 iForged wheels or $2000 set of CCW's...sign me up and I'd like to check out the opperation.

When you talk about stress testing a wheel to an individual cars setup, your talking about some pretty custom stuff and I would question how someone could do that and use volume to cut down price. Doesn't make business sense. I'd rather pay more money to have the job done right. If I wanted a volume dealer...I will stick with OEM stuff. JMHO :cheers:

Anyone notice I like talking about wheels :crazy:

 

RCswish: email address???

 

It's in my sig picture :D

RCswish@yahoo.com :cheers: