sydneyACE

So, I took my 2001 C-5 to a track day this spring (and again last weekend). I had lots of fun! The car did amazing, its really fun to pass guys in their $50,000+ Porsches.
We were doing 20 min. sessions and it quickly became apparent that my brakes just weren't up to it. On the street I never have any problems with them, but the track was just too much. There are three good sized straights on the track, and on the back I was reaching 140 or so. The pads got so hot after a few laps that they actually "smeared" material on the rotors.
I've heard lots of different opinions on pad materials, and rotors. It seems that most "real" racers actually prefer plain, solid rotors to the slotted or cross-drilled ones. They said that pad composition and brake fluid was was what really matters.
I put some DOT 4 brake fluid in which prevented the fluid from boiling. I think I'm just gonna get some cheap rotors from NAPA or wherever, but want to get some new pads for more stopping power.
I've been told to go with a composite material rather than ceramic. Most people on this forum seem to go with the *Hawk HPS* pads, I also found *Satisfied GranSport 6 Pads* which are cheaper and seem to have the same characteristics.
I'm on a "super budget" but also want my brakes to hold up to the hard, high-speed braking. Does anyone really think that slotted or drilled rotors help? Do you guys think that the spindle ducts (like from LG) would help a lot, or would a good set of pads handle it on their own?
Any help is appreciated!
Thanks

longdaddy

HPS is not really a track pad and you will likely have similar issues. For a beginner's pad that is not overly aggressive I would probably go with HP+ (or any comparable pad from other manufacturers, i.e. Carbotech XP8)

blank rotors are going to be the most cost efficient until you start cracking them often enough for replacement to become a hassle.

cooling ducting is worth doing since it is a relatively cheap mod, although i am not convinced it's an end-all cooling solution that many here consider it to be.

CHJ In Virginia

If you are going to start doing regular track days, brake upgrades will be desirable. 1) Upgrade to a high temp fluid like ATE Super blue or Motul 600 2) Definitely go with a solid rotor ( NAPAS are good especially when cost is a factor) - drilled and slotted dont last any time before cracking 3) Upgrade pads - ceramics are almost useless. Carbotek XP8 or similar is a good starting point 4) Get cooling ducts. They will keep the fronts much cooler especially at summer events and help keep the rotors from cracking. 5) Get a good set of SS lines such as Goodridge or similar. These mods will give you much better more reliable braking for track usage.

sydneyACE

The brake lines on my car are a braided steel type. I'm not sure if they are stock or not (the guy who owned the car before me has done lots track oriented mods to the car) so I'm not sure what's aftermarket,and what's not.
I can't really afford to do many track days as of now, and my car is a daily driver, so that factors in a little bit too. Those brake pads I mentioned before the *Satisfied GranSport 6 Pads* are rated for 100-700 degrees (and they're only $70 a set). With those pads, and some good fluid what would then be the weak point in the system? The rotors?
If it's just a matter of cracking rotors when I go to the track, then I could deffinately make due with buying a new set of the NAPA ones once in a while.
Or do you guys think I'll still have problems with boiling fluid, or pad break-down?
Should I pay attention to the rear brakes as well? They deffinately don't get nearly as hot, and the car has the Z06 rear break ducts. I can see how putting a better pad in the front (and not the rear) could cause a brake-bias issue.
Thanks for the replys

longdaddy

from what I see, those are ceramic pads. don't use ceramic pads in the front calipers on the track.

it is pretty unusual to boil the fluid in these cars, the heat degrades rotors, pads and calipers the most, in that order.

it is very common to put more aggressive pad in the front for the track. i actually had an experience where I had to use carbotech XP10 in the front and ACDelco ceramic pad in the back (all that was available to me at the moment after I realised i wore XP8 in the back down to the plate) at Infineon and the car did OK, maybe a little floaty under hard braking, but nothing too serious.

the rear brakes do a lot less work and see a lot less stress compared to the fronts.

sothpaw2

I would recommend you try to find stock C5Z06 pads from the forum used at a low price. If you want a little better, Hawk HP+ are better than the HPS and cost is very close. The HP+ will crack rotors though, ultimately.
Rotor wear is better w/the C5Z pads. They are the better cost choice and will do well if you are not heating beyond their capability.

mgarfias

Speaking from similar experience: buy a good set of pads for the track. Only use them at the track. If you drive on them on the street you'll eat your rotors. Then buy a cheap set of pads for the street. If you really want to get fancy, get a 2nd set of rotors for the track only.

Brake cooling will help, also, don't assume that your rears won't cook off. If you are driving with the car in comp mode, or with the tcs full on, the car uses the rear brakes to keep the tail inline. meaning, you can fry a set of rears before the fronts.

Listen to what these guys say about pad compounds, don't use those other pads. If they worked well, we'd know about it by now. Also, concerning the c5Z stock pads, they're ok. Not that grabby, but stop and wear reasonably well. My big beef with them is they'll deposit pad material on the rotor unevenly.

longdaddy

agreed, OEM Z06 compound is a good choice for a street/track pad

AU N EGL

2nd that.

Ceramic brake pads have their place in the automotive world. Just not on sports cars or pick up trucks. Ceramic brake pads just dont stop you car from any sort of speed

rad_vet

Are Z06 stock pads up for repeated slow downs from 140mph? I have never heard of stock pads that are up for serious track duty. Or is the recommendation based on the useage of the OP? It would seem to me you need a dedicated track pad, like PFC-01, for serious track time.

AU N EGL

YES they will work fine for beginners.

yes Dedicated track pads are far better. but for a beginner who wants a double duty pad, the C5Z stock pads are the ones.

beerkat

From what I gather from reading your post sydneyACE is that you are just starting to track your car. So I have a couple of questions for you.

Did you flush you brake fluid or has it been in the car awhile?

If you are running street tires then you do not want a real aggressive pad.

I have heard from many other drivers that learning to drive your car in a stock setup will make you a better driver latter.

Enjoy your new addiction

sydneyACE

Thanks for the help guys! Thanks to your input, I've decided to get a dedicated track pad, and just swap it out on track days. I've been running A/S tires which make me a little slower in the corners, but the brakes were deffinately the weakest point. After a few laps I probably couldn't even lock up the tires cause the brake pads were just toast. I deffinately want to get some better tires too, but their pretty expensive. I realize the importance of flushing the brake fluid regularly even though I don't think I'm having any problem with that because the pedal never goes soft.
Thanks again for all the help guys!

flink

Even on your second or third track day, you'll need a pad rated to at least 1200F,
preferably 1500F. Any street pad just won't cut it - it'll glaze up or will wear like crazy
and won't stop the car.

Apropos of nothing, EBC are coming out with a new racing compound, "blue stuff".
For some reason they're handing out trial pads to GTO guys and I shall be torturing
mine at Thunderhill on Oct 2.

Wayne O

Good advice...there are many things you can do to greatly increase the effectiveness of your 'stock' brakes. You can also add SS caliper pistons too. There are many vendors/souces to checkout but FWIW Doug Rippie Motorsports has a decent page on their web site for brake upgrades.

vetteracer92

Stay with the plain rotors, they do just fine. Good fluid is a must out there(seen a couple of people boil over) I used HP+ and still on them this year, didn't crack the rotors. If James or John does instructor, they will make you use up pads and heat them pretty good. Which A/S tires did you run? I was using Kumho ASX last year. The brake zone for the Vette is also later than they suggest.

sydneyACE

Yeah, James is the one that rode with me. I have Michelin Pilot A/S on the rear, and was running some Kumho A/S's on the front (I know it's best to run a matched set, but as I said: I'm on a budget, and I got those for super cheap). I run Michelin Pilots on my bike as well, and think they make a great tire. If I have the bucks I'm gonna try and run the regular pilots (not all season) once these wear out. Once I get a set of good pads on it, I think I'll be able to lap a little faster. The Vette can make up so much time on the straights if you can brake late. As for the corners I've just been "so, so" those poor ol' A/S tires just don't stick the best. Maybe next time we'll see you out there? Thanks all for the advice!

c4cruiser

What track did you go to?? Some tracks will be tougher on brakes than others.

I will agree on using a pad like a HP+ for dedicated track use for starting out with track days. Also with braided lines (sounds like you already have them on the car) and a good DOT4 fluid like ATE Super Blue.

The ATE Super Blue is also available in another color called TYP200 that is a gold color. Both are the same fluid so when you do a fluid flush, you simply use the other color and you can easily tell when the old fluid is out. Bleed a couple ounces of fluid from each caliper before an event and again afterwards. Get some Speed Bleeders so you can do bleeding/flushing by yourself with no equipment.

Stock rotors work great for track use. You might consider buying a set of stock rotors and pads like the HP+ and install everything and bed the pads just before a track day. After the event, swap the rotors and past out for some street stuff. Box everything up so pads and rotors are labeled and matched to a wheel position.

That way you can save the track stuff just for events. Pads like the HP+ will work on the street, but they need heat to work well and they tend to squeal when cold. And there is lots of brake dust.