Let me ask another way, who's LS3 HASN"T blown up on the track
04-29-2011, 12:05 AM
#41
Le Mans Master
Pff...i hold over 1 g's on exit ramps let alone racing...i run a 3 qt oil cooler and a batwing oil pan...no issues on 20000 miles. My motor is a 416 though. The short was built by scoggin dickey
04-29-2011, 04:19 AM
#42
I've opened up all the drains in the heads (LS6 on top of a '99 LS1 shortblock) and smoothed everything out. Installed .040" pushrods to reduce oil to the heads as well as replaced the restrictive (in terms of oil drain) lifter cups with link bar lifters and I still have times when I get next to zero oil pressure(according to the factory display) on the track. Not to mention I have an accusump. I'm not sure why the LS3 would be worse. As far as the C6Z06, it is a dry sump, but only has one stage of scavenge so I'd bet its possible to run the tank dry if it is not large enough and doesn't have the proper baffles inside.
I personally plan on adding a two or three stage scavenge pump to my car and dry sump using the internal pump for pressure, but only because it is a street car that I take to the track and don't want to go through the trouble of fitting an external pump with more stages (motor mount makes it difficult. On a race car I would use an external pressure instead of the internal pump simply because the stock pump will cavitate and a properly built dry sump external pump will not.
I personally plan on adding a two or three stage scavenge pump to my car and dry sump using the internal pump for pressure, but only because it is a street car that I take to the track and don't want to go through the trouble of fitting an external pump with more stages (motor mount makes it difficult. On a race car I would use an external pressure instead of the internal pump simply because the stock pump will cavitate and a properly built dry sump external pump will not.
04-29-2011, 07:26 AM
#43
Team Owner
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I think we have to remember these are darn good performance engines without being purpose built race engines. Real race engines are measured in hours of use, not years or thousands of miles
04-29-2011, 08:14 AM
#44
Le Mans Master
04-29-2011, 08:49 PM
#45
Melting Slicks
I know there have been some C6 Z06 engine issues, but I don't know what the issues were. I've driven a bunch on track (all with different mods) and never seen any problems, other than a bit high oil temps. But I believe the dry sump tank capacity was increased specifically to address those issues.
05-07-2011, 12:11 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
I've only run a handful of track days so far with my 2010 LS3 on NT01's, but so far, it's got ~10k on it, and hasn't blown up 
.
However, after only my first track day (saw some higher oil temps) and based on the horror stories I read here last year after I bought the car, I bought a used LS3 "Bat-wing" pan (specifically built for the LS3, not the one from the LS6), and had an LS7 oil cooler installed at the same time. Again, I haven't run a bunch of days yet (3 or 4) but knock-on-wood, no problems.
Will see how things go this season.
.However, after only my first track day (saw some higher oil temps) and based on the horror stories I read here last year after I bought the car, I bought a used LS3 "Bat-wing" pan (specifically built for the LS3, not the one from the LS6), and had an LS7 oil cooler installed at the same time. Again, I haven't run a bunch of days yet (3 or 4) but knock-on-wood, no problems.
Will see how things go this season.
05-12-2011, 12:31 AM
#52
Instructor
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Oiling issues. Mostly the pumps fault.
11 years and 26000 miles (all racing) in the silver bullet, and its camaro LS6 is holding up great! I know that my old boss has the 7th LS3 made, he has over 200,000 miles on that car now and its running great!
11 years and 26000 miles (all racing) in the silver bullet, and its camaro LS6 is holding up great! I know that my old boss has the 7th LS3 made, he has over 200,000 miles on that car now and its running great!
05-14-2011, 05:02 AM
#54
Pukes oil out the relief valve under normal, highway conditions. The oil sprays out onto the inside of my LF fender, bleeds out where the fender meets the wheel well, engine compartment and left rocker panel, coating the underside of my 'Vette and dripping onto my driveway and my garage floor.
Loses the 'residual' bladder pressure it's supposed to have when the engine has no oil pressure in the block. Residual pressure was first advised to be set at 7 PSI, then after a few puking incidents and one self-replacement of the relief valve (hated having to remove the bumper to gain access), I was advised to bump up the pressure to 25 PSI.
Puking oil and loss of residual pressure happens in periods between a few weeks to a few months, no matter what the weather/temp.
Latest incident occurred a week before a non-refundable HPDE weekend. I let my engine installer deal with the whole thing this time. He sent the sump and gauge back to Canton for a rebuild. Was informed today that Canton did the rebuild, but could find no cause for the puking and pressure loss. Hmmm. Car's been down for a month as a result. (ARGH!)
I have the da*n thing there to protect the engine during HPDEs, but all it's basically done is frustrate the h-e-double hockey sticks out of me and cost me more time and money.
I don't want to drive my beast on the track until things are fixed/resolved because I'm afraid the sump will let go while in an event, puke oil onto the course, cause an accident and cause me extra cost to clean up the track.
Sooo much fun.
Loses the 'residual' bladder pressure it's supposed to have when the engine has no oil pressure in the block. Residual pressure was first advised to be set at 7 PSI, then after a few puking incidents and one self-replacement of the relief valve (hated having to remove the bumper to gain access), I was advised to bump up the pressure to 25 PSI.
Puking oil and loss of residual pressure happens in periods between a few weeks to a few months, no matter what the weather/temp.
Latest incident occurred a week before a non-refundable HPDE weekend. I let my engine installer deal with the whole thing this time. He sent the sump and gauge back to Canton for a rebuild. Was informed today that Canton did the rebuild, but could find no cause for the puking and pressure loss. Hmmm. Car's been down for a month as a result. (ARGH!)
I have the da*n thing there to protect the engine during HPDEs, but all it's basically done is frustrate the h-e-double hockey sticks out of me and cost me more time and money.
I don't want to drive my beast on the track until things are fixed/resolved because I'm afraid the sump will let go while in an event, puke oil onto the course, cause an accident and cause me extra cost to clean up the track.
Sooo much fun.
Suggestion: Insulate the unit well and perhaps install a shielding baffle where the air flow is coming from.
Good luck.
Kevin Johnson
Last edited by KLJ; 05-14-2011 at 05:09 AM. Reason: Some people like to accuse me of hiding who I am. Good day!
05-14-2011, 09:22 AM
#55
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10
Probably will. I'm not sure exactly when they modified the pump, but I do know they changed it due to the 2005 LS2s detonating after just a few laps. I raced a guy in 2005 at Memphis with a brand new C6 LS2 and his engine lasted 1 lap before it blew. I remember driving thru the oil and engine parts the next lap around. I'm pretty sure Joe Aqualante had a talk with GM shortly after that and the pump was changed to deliver more volume. He was a big help in the LS3 department too. It took until 2009 though to make everyone realize that a dry sump was the only solution to the LS2/3 engine problems.
I know there have been some C6 Z06 engine issues, but I don't know what the issues were. I've driven a bunch on track (all with different mods) and never seen any problems, other than a bit high oil temps. But I believe the dry sump tank capacity was increased specifically to address those issues.
I know there have been some C6 Z06 engine issues, but I don't know what the issues were. I've driven a bunch on track (all with different mods) and never seen any problems, other than a bit high oil temps. But I believe the dry sump tank capacity was increased specifically to address those issues.
Based on your observations and experience, is the 2009+ LS7 (stock sump volume 10.5 qt) pretty robust ?
How would you compare the LS7 with the enhanced sump to the LS3 and versus LS6 in terms of durability under hard track conditions ?
Trying to figure out if I should put mine to the test.
Thanks !
05-14-2011, 12:17 PM
#56
Burning Brakes
05-14-2011, 12:53 PM
#57
Burning Brakes
After reading your description of the problem and Canton's pdf manual I suspect that the location of your unit is causing unequal cooling of the cylinder surface and distorting it. This would allow the unit to become hydraulically locked and the relief valve to discharge even under normal highway driving. When the unit is subsequently inspected the temperature differential across the unit is gone and the cause will "disappear."
Suggestion: Insulate the unit well and perhaps install a shielding baffle where the air flow is coming from.
Good luck.
Kevin Johnson
Suggestion: Insulate the unit well and perhaps install a shielding baffle where the air flow is coming from.
Good luck.
Kevin Johnson
Thanks for the comment. To my non-mechanical engineering educated mind, your assessment seems plausible. I'll mention your suggestion to my shop.
FYI, my shop (a reputable CF sponsor) installed the Accusump with an inside left front fender install kit (from another reputable CF sponsor). They told me that they've never seen issues similar to mine with the sump system itself, until recently, when another car came into their shop with the same install kit (work done by another shop). Maybe install location is a contributing factor. Maybe (as another CF member posted), the sump gauges both I and this other driver have/had experienced an internal failure, causing non-typical sump problems. I don't know. Needless to say, it sounds like my shop is thinking more than twice and may shy away from using that plumbing and location install kit again, at least without some modification to the total system (sump and plumbing).
As for resolving my issues, the shop got with Canton and had my sump rebuilt (no labor/parts charges from Canton to me or to my shop that I know of
). My shop also provided a home-grown preventative fix to the relief valve puking issue - instead of puking on my fender, the relief valve will puke into one of my valve covers. Maybe my shop, the install kit maker and Canton will commiserate in the future over everything I experienced and make things better for future customers. We'll see. 
Enjoy the summer!
Last edited by kedvesh; 05-14-2011 at 01:11 PM.
05-14-2011, 12:57 PM
#58
Burning Brakes
SO Puking oil hmmmmm just got back from Watkins Glen 2 days HPDE noticed a good size oil spot on left side mixed with water figured from air conditioning. I took it to the dealer said oilpan was leaking which it has for about a year. I wonder I think it is the check valve Would a catch can solve this? I have Lime rock in 10 days
Sorry; just noticed your post from the end of April. Hope Lime Rock went well. PM about to be sent.
05-14-2011, 06:05 PM
#59
Race Director
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I was having a problem with my Accusump similar to what the other poster had.
I finally found out what was causing it.
There was a very slow leak in the gauge fitting on the tank I didn't know about. Over a short period of time (1 week) it would completely lose all pressure and when the engine started there was a big instant pressure buildup that would blow the pressure relief valve momentarily and blowing oil everywhere. Not knowing at first what was creating this oily mess I installed another pressure relief valve. It happened again.
I mentioned it to Danny Popp and he diagnosed the problem as a probable loss of residual pressure and the engine creating enough momentary pressure to blow the valve.
I soaped up all the fitting on the Accusump tank and pumped it up to 50#. I immediately saw the bubbles around the gauge fitting. Replaced that, pumped the tank up to about 25#'s and haven't had another issue with it for the past 2 years.
Key to it is not let the engine try to pressurize the tank with no pressure against it. Always make sure there's air pressure.
I finally found out what was causing it.
There was a very slow leak in the gauge fitting on the tank I didn't know about. Over a short period of time (1 week) it would completely lose all pressure and when the engine started there was a big instant pressure buildup that would blow the pressure relief valve momentarily and blowing oil everywhere. Not knowing at first what was creating this oily mess I installed another pressure relief valve. It happened again.
I mentioned it to Danny Popp and he diagnosed the problem as a probable loss of residual pressure and the engine creating enough momentary pressure to blow the valve.
I soaped up all the fitting on the Accusump tank and pumped it up to 50#. I immediately saw the bubbles around the gauge fitting. Replaced that, pumped the tank up to about 25#'s and haven't had another issue with it for the past 2 years.
Key to it is not let the engine try to pressurize the tank with no pressure against it. Always make sure there's air pressure.
05-14-2011, 11:45 PM
#60
Drifting
My 08 base hasn't blown yet...only two tracks so far so I'm worthless was going to do an accusump with the electric valve setup next week with my ron davis radiator with an eoc. After reading all the accusump threads I'm a bit concerned with oil puking. Does the electric value solve that problem? Any reason not to use the 2 quart accusump? Does the 3 quart fit in the driver fender well without modding?
was going to do an accusump with the electric valve setup next week with my ron davis radiator with an eoc. After reading all the accusump threads I'm a bit concerned with oil puking. Does the electric value solve that problem? Any reason not to use the 2 quart accusump? Does the 3 quart fit in the driver fender well without modding?