pws69

Only if you are building Skyscrapers - not in this application....

birdsmith

Thanks pws69. I should have been a little clearer in my reply but I was on my lunch break at my job where I remove and install rivets on airplanes all day and didn't really have time to fully explain the process. Bottom line here is if you just gotta have originality then rivets are the way to go, but (like welding and other specialized processes) it/they can take some specialized tooling and practice to get right. If you're gonna use bolts then they should be 1/4-28 Grade 8 shoulder bolts secured with either good quality locknuts or (preferably) Loctite on the threads and a lockwasher under the nut. As far as holding a .001"-.002" tolerance on the holes, that would be pretty easy as long as you don't enlarge them while getting the old balljoints out. This can best be accomplished by drilling slightly past the base of the rivet head with a 3/16" drill bit, knocking the head off with a chisel, and then driving out the shank with a 5/32" drift punch. The main reason I'm being **** here is that Chevys all have that spring-loaded bottom control arm, and if you lose a badly-installed bottom balljoint it can easily result in a catastrophe. Peace all.....

FB007

Really? Think again. Unless you have access to a 50 TON press or so, you have to heat them. Ask Bair's how they do theirs. They heat them cherry red. Call them.

7T1vette

Let's see.... steel rivets with a 30,000 psi modulus (strength) and having a shank area of .07 square inches [or so] doesn't really need a 50 ton press to squeeze them. {certainly less than 2 tons}

FB007

Ever work in a punch press facility? I have. 2 ton would be used for minor asembly like crimping. 10-20 ton for puching out washers. They guys wouldn't dream of using less than a 30-50 ton for this just so they wouldn't bottom out or beat the press to death. Would you run a machine to 100% capacity? Think GM did? You guys think some old lady with a sledge hammer assembled a -arms?

SH-60B

No, some old lady running a press assembled the arms.

7T1vette

The weight of the punch press does not indicate the load required to swedge a rivet head. And, yes, I've operated a punch press...and about every other piece of equipment GM had [in 40 years of factory experience]. A 50 ton press definitely would take care of a 1/4" rivet.....it is about like using an elephant to move a matchstick! I have no problem with your factory experience....it is just very limited.

birdsmith

Since most home hobbyists don't have 50 ton presses in their garages, the only really practical way to install these rivets at home (or even in most front end shops for that matter) would be with a pretty stout rivet gun,(or air hammer if you absolutely must but they're quite a bit harder to control than rivet guns) probably in the 5x-6x range. Any solid rivet can be installed with impact or pressure- it just takes a little more strength and skill to install them with impact. And heating them cherry red before installation would just minimize the amount of pressure required to swage them if you're going that route; for a company like Bair's it just makes the job easier in their case since they have the equipment to do it and they do LOTS of these balljoints.

wro87

Thanks for all the good info gang I hate to see all the BS going on but I thought there was some good stuff and ideals. Ok heres what we are doing. Haven't figured out yet to use grade 5 or 8 bolts using some with a shoulder so they will fit snug then I have played with my dremil to round the head off some and to dress them out as a rivet and when painted you can't tell. Keep up all the good help and HARMONY

Thanks wro87

7T1vette

Interesting idea, but cutting away most of the material on the bolt head will just make the joint very weak. If you really want rivets, either rent the air hammer you need to do the job or take the parts to a frame shop and let them rivet the joints.

birdsmith

You definitely seem to have struck a raw nerve!! In this particular case though I would give you the same advice as 7T1Vette-since you want the installation to at least LOOK original you might as well bite the bullet and find somebody in your area that has the equipment to properly install these rivets and have them do it. For the sake of information, a properly installed rivet tail should be 1 1/2 times the diameter of the shank and 1/2 times the height; i.e., approx. 3/8" diameter x 1/8" height for a 1/4" rivet. Also, there should be no gaps under the heads. Enjoy!

dmaxx3500

heres an old thread,but,my q is what works for the DIY/small shop jobber,can this be done with an air hammer?,what kit works?,and will NCRS judges not like rivet/like bolts?,,the guy before me bolted them in with normal bolts and i want to fix this,