When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Drove my C5 to work today - nothing out of the ordinary the entire way there or back, except for my last 300 yards before our condo complex.
Turned left at the light and gave her a nice run through 1st/2nd (also not out of the ordinary), but as I went to shift into 3rd to roll the rest of the way to our gate I got grind and the trans didnt want to engage. I left it in neutral and depressed the clutch, sometimes the clutch pedal will get a bit stuck after a hard 1/2nd pull so cycled the pedal and went to re-engage 3rd... to no avail. I was able to roll all the way to the driveway where we enter the gate code, went to put into first... no luck! It was at this point I noticed the clutch pedal felt really weird, it would depress about 1/2 way before I got any significant resistance.
I was able to turn the car off, engage 1st and start the car with it in gear to pull into the complex, but even doing this when I would depress the clutch pedal it was not disengaging the clutch.
My assumption at this point is that the T.O is blown into pieces or that the slave cyl crapped out... but if anyone has any other idea please share!
Ill tear into it this weekend and Im sure I will learn more once the tunnel and torque tube are out
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
Originally Posted by andy_t
I will try to keep this short... (sure )
Drove my C5 to work today - nothing out of the ordinary the entire way there or back, except for my last 300 yards before our condo complex.
Turned left at the light and gave her a nice run through 1st/2nd (also not out of the ordinary), but as I went to shift into 3rd to roll the rest of the way to our gate I got grind and the trans didnt want to engage. I left it in neutral and depressed the clutch, sometimes the clutch pedal will get a bit stuck after a hard 1/2nd pull so cycled the pedal and went to re-engage 3rd... to no avail. I was able to roll all the way to the driveway where we enter the gate code, went to put into first... no luck! It was at this point I noticed the clutch pedal felt really weird, it would depress about 1/2 way before I got any significant resistance.
I was able to turn the car off, engage 1st and start the car with it in gear to pull into the complex, but even doing this when I would depress the clutch pedal it was not disengaging the clutch.
My assumption at this point is that the T.O is blown into pieces or that the slave cyl crapped out... but if anyone has any other idea please share!
Ill tear into it this weekend and Im sure I will learn more once the tunnel and torque tube are out
Thank you in advance,
Matt_t
You symptoms SOUND like either your slave cylinder puked, OR a seal gave way inside the MC and it's either leaking (or bypassing internally), not allowing full clutch action.
Check it out. Look for any obvious leaks of course.
I would think the Throw out/release Bearing would make some kind of serious noise... that you would readily know something is wrong in that general vicinity.
The slave might leak some fluid if it blew a seal or something? I hope your problem may be something to do with the master cylinder.. that would certainly be much easier to fix... good luck I am still learning myself about this system so, I'll be lurking around to see how your problem gets solved.
Have you done the Ranger method of keeping your clutch fluid clean?
One of the best Corvette techs in the country told me always change the master first, $200 and a couple hours is way better than pulling the drive train. My son's Z drove great on his way to work, stopped to go into reverse to park, clutch was gone. Changed master and all was well.
Thank you guys! My other thought was initially the slave cyl, but after hearing from you and doing a bit of digging into the system it seems the master was under-engineered on purpose by GM and is the known failure point.
Does anyone have a procedure to test the master prior to replacement? I found another thread on the CF where someone said;
"If you are losing fluid as well as pedal you need to find out where the fluid is going. Inside the car it's the master, underneath it's the slave..."
However, I have found no noticeable leaks around the master or underneath the car. Although, that doesn't mean the seals in the master haven't failed, preventing it from developing any hyd press to disengage the clutch...
Better go grab my service manual and figure out how to get at this master cyl. its buried in there!
Thank you guys! My other thought was initially the slave cyl, but after hearing from you and doing a bit of digging into the system it seems the master was under-engineered on purpose by GM and is the known failure point.
Does anyone have a procedure to test the master prior to replacement? I found another thread on the CF where someone said;
"If you are losing fluid as well as pedal you need to find out where the fluid is going. Inside the car it's the master, underneath it's the slave..."
However, I have found no noticeable leaks around the master or underneath the car. Although, that doesn't mean the seals in the master haven't failed, preventing it from developing any hyd press to disengage the clutch...
Better go grab my service manual and figure out how to get at this master cyl. its buried in there!
Thanks,
Matt t.
From some of the issues I've read about on the forum.. the fluid can bypass internally on the MC... may be whats happening and why you would see NO fluid leak...
Be sure you BENCH bleed your new MC... let us know how it goes!
One of the best Corvette techs in the country told me always change the master first, $200 and a couple hours is way better than pulling the drive train. My son's Z drove great on his way to work, stopped to go into reverse to park, clutch was gone. Changed master and all was well.
100% on target and that is what I also recommend.
IF,,,,,,,,, the Master Cyl really wasn't the smoking gun and you have to replace the slave or some other internal clutch part,, you did NOT waste any money on a new Master Cyl.
It "SHOULD" be a mandatory replacement part any time the clutch is replaced!
When you attempt to take the QUICK DISCONNECT apart, PRESS the two parts together and then press in on the white separation sleeve. I found that a flare nut wrench that is large enough to sit on the white ring will apply the proper force to evenly insert the sleeve in the fitting and release the coupling.
I agree, Do a good bench bleed on the master before you install it..
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
Originally Posted by andy_t
However, I have found no noticeable leaks around the master or underneath the car. Although, that doesn't mean the seals in the master haven't failed, preventing it from developing any hyd press to disengage the clutch..........
By "around the master" do you mean just the brake booster/firewall area OR did you ALSO look up under the dash at the firewall area where the rod comes through?
Hey guys, its been a few days but just wanted to update those of you who helped me out! Ive learned a ton in the last few days so to look back at my initial assumption that a TO bearing was the issue makes me
None the less... I followed your guys initial advice and replaced the master cylinder. Being lazy I had the Orilley's right down the street order one and picked it up the next day. This turned out to be a mistake (these parts from the big boxes are junk most of the time IMHO)... 3 kicks into the bleed and the snap ring holding the clutch pedal push rod shot out the top and rod and cylinder came out in about 4 or 5 pieces... (end day one, grab beer, new game plan)
Called a local Chevy dealer and they had not one, but two new clutch master cyls on the shelf, and I actually ended up getting it for a great deal too ($130 something). Fast forward a few hours and the new master is installed and bleed, but tried starting the car and it still was not disengaging the clutch/going into gear. In the process of all this I had removed the inspection plate on the clutch and guess what I found... A broken pressure plate. Disclaimer; pic has been edited if you are curious about the colors.
Fast forward a few blurry days (memorial weekend) and the Driveline is about an hour from getting pulled. All I have left in the way of prep is to remove the harness connections on the diff/tranny and up the torque tube, and figure out what I am going to use as a substitute for a trans jack. Last night I ordered an OEM C5Z clutch kit which includes a new flywheel, pressure plate, TO & Pilot bearings, along with a new slave cyl to complete the job (Anything else I should do when I am in there?)
However...
I do have a few clarifying questions before I start to drop the driveline, and I was hoping I could get some more help from the forum! (First, I want to say thank you to Dope for his awesome DIY it helped a lot, as did a few others! https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...all-guide.html)
1) When to undo the Torque tube bolts? It seems in the how to's I read that you remove the 4 anchor nuts holding the rear subframe and transaxle and lower the driveline, stopping at or before the reference point outlined in the manual to prevent damage to the firewall, and THEN you remove the torque tube blots. It this correct? I am only asking because I would think this would put a great deal of stress on the TT or engine mounts..?
2) When Re-Installing the Torque Tube? Dope suggests on removal "Put a jackstand or a small bottle jack underneath the oil pan so the engine won't tilt when you remove the torque tube." Does he mean at the front of the engine to maintain the angle relative to the ground that the engine was in when the TT was removed? This wont place undue stress on the oil pan, it may be like this for a few days before I get a chance to get back to the garage...?
3) Pilot Bearing From what I can read the grease method is completely out as far as an option to remove my pilot bearing. Just curious how everyone else's experience was compared to Dope's in regards to the level of difficulty in removing your pilot bearings? Does the AutoZone rental puller work okay? Does anyone know the part number?
I think those are all I have for now, looking forward to dropping the transaxle later this week. I will update with pics as I can!
Hey guys, its been a few days but just wanted to update those of you who helped me out! Ive learned a ton in the last few days so to look back at my initial assumption that a TO bearing was the issue makes me
None the less... I followed your guys initial advice and replaced the master cylinder. Being lazy I had the Orilley's right down the street order one and picked it up the next day. This turned out to be a mistake (these parts from the big boxes are junk most of the time IMHO)... 3 kicks into the bleed and the snap ring holding the clutch pedal push rod shot out the top and rod and cylinder came out in about 4 or 5 pieces... (end day one, grab beer, new game plan)
Called a local Chevy dealer and they had not one, but two new clutch master cyls on the shelf, and I actually ended up getting it for a great deal too ($130 something). Fast forward a few hours and the new master is installed and bleed, but tried starting the car and it still was not disengaging the clutch/going into gear. In the process of all this I had removed the inspection plate on the clutch and guess what I found... A broken pressure plate. Disclaimer; pic has been edited if you are curious about the colors.
Fast forward a few blurry days (memorial weekend) and the Driveline is about an hour from getting pulled. All I have left in the way of prep is to remove the harness connections on the diff/tranny and up the torque tube, and figure out what I am going to use as a substitute for a trans jack. Last night I ordered an OEM C5Z clutch kit which includes a new flywheel, pressure plate, TO & Pilot bearings, along with a new slave cyl to complete the job (Anything else I should do when I am in there?)
However...
I do have a few clarifying questions before I start to drop the driveline, and I was hoping I could get some more help from the forum! (First, I want to say thank you to Dope for his awesome DIY it helped a lot, as did a few others! https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...all-guide.html)
1) When to undo the Torque tube bolts? It seems in the how to's I read that you remove the 4 anchor nuts holding the rear subframe and transaxle and lower the driveline, stopping at or before the reference point outlined in the manual to prevent damage to the firewall, and THEN you remove the torque tube blots. It this correct? I am only asking because I would think this would put a great deal of stress on the TT or engine mounts..?
2) When Re-Installing the Torque Tube? Dope suggests on removal "Put a jackstand or a small bottle jack underneath the oil pan so the engine won't tilt when you remove the torque tube." Does he mean at the front of the engine to maintain the angle relative to the ground that the engine was in when the TT was removed? This wont place undue stress on the oil pan, it may be like this for a few days before I get a chance to get back to the garage...?
3) Pilot Bearing From what I can read the grease method is completely out as far as an option to remove my pilot bearing. Just curious how everyone else's experience was compared to Dope's in regards to the level of difficulty in removing your pilot bearings? Does the AutoZone rental puller work okay? Does anyone know the part number?
I think those are all I have for now, looking forward to dropping the transaxle later this week. I will update with pics as I can!
Thank you CF,
Matt_T
Matt
You need to call me,,,,,,,,,,, before you get tooo much further!! PM SENT. Too much stuff to type
Too much crap to type so Im having him CALL ME! I think I typed clutch post at least 19 times this month..
BC
Sorry Bill... can you guys tape your phone conversations and post them so we can track your wisdom... just kidding.
I totally get why, you are having him call... it's just awesome to actually see your replies and learn what, how, why...
He can post the readers digest version and the list of components used for the new clutch install...looking forward to seeing it
Thanks for all you do
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
Post #9:
Originally Posted by andy_t
............ last night i ordered an oem c5z clutch kit which includes a new flywheel, pressure plate, to & pilot bearings, along with a new slave cyl to complete the job (anything else i should do when i am in there?)
matt_t
Post #11:
Originally Posted by 73corvette
...........
1. i would strongly consider upgrading the clutch
Bill - Cant thank you enough that phone call helped a great deal!
I feel an obligation to pass along the cliff notes I can remember for anyone who may stumble over this thread.
1) Remove the transaxle and TT in two pieces. I imagine this is going to make reassembly a breeze, it was quite easy to get it apart just make sure to go slow when lowering the rear subframe/transaxle
2) Center punch old flywheel and crank for reference prior to separating, and install the new flywheel in the same relation to the crank.
3) Match balance your new flywheel!!!!! Its so much easier to get it done the right way the first time. As much fun as I have had doing this job so far I certainly have no desire to put everything back together only to find out I have to do it all over again! I called the local Corvette specialty shop here in the Seattle area (Corvettes of Auburn) and asked what machine shop they typically use.
4) Pilot bearing - Heat up the area around the pilot and use the slide hammer and pb tool from autozone. Freeze the PB and heat the area around the it prior to install, should go in like a breeze.
5) TT couplers, make sure to remove one at a time if you are going to replace these. There are oriented in a certain way and need to insure the new ones are in the same orientation.
6) Oh and one last one I remember, the higher the better, I was barely able to clear the top of the trans out back!
This is all I can remember at the moment, hopefully I did our conversation justice Bill, thanks again!
Awesome job! For the record, I had the same thing happen to my stock clutch as well back when I had 88k miles. I broke 2 "fingers" on the PP and it wouldn't disengage the FW.
05-14-2015, 11:42 PM
HELP! Did my T.O bearing just explode? Or...?
)
100% on target and that is what I also recommend. 
