Stuck between Z06 and Z51 for street + track car
12-08-2016, 03:16 AM
#1
Stuck between Z06 and Z51 for street + track car
I've searched the forums, but haven't found any specific answers. Quick back story - I've spent maybe 20 track weekends in my old c6 z51, and then sold it to buy a Tesla P85+, which while I admit would not last more than a few laps at VIR (because of battery fatigue / battery protection), the car handles BETTER than my c6 z51 did on the street. The car is truly amazing. That being said - I miss the crap out of my c6, and am looking to get a used c7...so my options are z51 or z06 (grand sport isn't an option right now).
To ME - the price bump of a used z06 is worth it as compared to a z51 (meaning their value is the same to me), so it's apples to apples as far as the money goes. And I've always wanted a z06 model of the corvette for as long as I've loved them...
But my real concern is about overheating issues. Does the z51 *never* overheat with heavy/track use? Or are both the z51 and z06 susceptible to overheating? I had high oil temperatures with the c6z51, and HATED when I had to stop having fun on the track to pit in or do a cool down lap purely because of temperatures.
So my main question is - am I buying a much closer to bullet-proof car (temp-wise) going with the z51, and am I risking owning a frustration-bucket with the z06 if I drive it hard on track during the summer months?
I think 99% of us can agree that I'll never use the power on the street...but as the title states, this will be my 1/2 daily driver (Tesla being the other), so any comments as to how the two compare on the street are welcomed as well.
Thank you for the advice!
To ME - the price bump of a used z06 is worth it as compared to a z51 (meaning their value is the same to me), so it's apples to apples as far as the money goes. And I've always wanted a z06 model of the corvette for as long as I've loved them...
But my real concern is about overheating issues. Does the z51 *never* overheat with heavy/track use? Or are both the z51 and z06 susceptible to overheating? I had high oil temperatures with the c6z51, and HATED when I had to stop having fun on the track to pit in or do a cool down lap purely because of temperatures.
So my main question is - am I buying a much closer to bullet-proof car (temp-wise) going with the z51, and am I risking owning a frustration-bucket with the z06 if I drive it hard on track during the summer months?
I think 99% of us can agree that I'll never use the power on the street...but as the title states, this will be my 1/2 daily driver (Tesla being the other), so any comments as to how the two compare on the street are welcomed as well.
Thank you for the advice!
12-08-2016, 09:04 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
I can't really help as my Z06 was a C5, and although I didn't have issues on the track, I drove it there during cooler months. I would *expect* though, that the C7 Z06 would survive track use better than the Z51.
I am, however, interested in your experience with the Tesla. I want one; I love driving them, but I have range anxiety and honestly, not real thrilled with the price/luxury trade-off. For $100K+, I expect a bit more comfort, better interior materials, etc.
I am, however, interested in your experience with the Tesla. I want one; I love driving them, but I have range anxiety and honestly, not real thrilled with the price/luxury trade-off. For $100K+, I expect a bit more comfort, better interior materials, etc.
Last edited by yeller z06; 12-08-2016 at 09:04 AM.
12-08-2016, 09:22 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
I think everything is susceptible to overheating depending on maintenance, ambient conditions and driving habits. The Z06 is more susceptible, as would most forced induction engine be VS naturally aspirated. The "fix" for the Z06 would be to install the radiator's in the manual transmission 2017 model on your 2016 or 2015. I think GM is offering this cooling upgrade over the parts counter. I believe the main radiator was updated and a 2nd radiator is installed horizontally at the bottom.
But, I think the answer to your original question is quite simple, get a Grand Sport. I know you said it is out of the question, but you can get a 1LT with the Z07 package in the low $70k's. That is the ultimate street/track car that has super-car performance and handling. Any used Z06 will be just as much but be overkill for the street and a new Z51 model will be just as much with a few options.
But, I think the answer to your original question is quite simple, get a Grand Sport. I know you said it is out of the question, but you can get a 1LT with the Z07 package in the low $70k's. That is the ultimate street/track car that has super-car performance and handling. Any used Z06 will be just as much but be overkill for the street and a new Z51 model will be just as much with a few options.
The following users liked this post:
dvilin (12-08-2016)
12-08-2016, 11:12 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
Through the generations, the Z06 model has always rode rougher (wider tires = more road noise) and is louder inside the cabin over the base/Z51. Having spent time in both C7 models, the Z06 ride on the street is very noticeable harsher over a like, Mag Ride Z51 car with like settings. The exhaust note sounds pretty much the same, just a little louder.
On the plus side; the 650 Ponies are very manageable on the street. I was presently surprised how easy (and smooth) it was to drive in a 30 MPH zone! Now for the track; the Z51 is quite capable of laying down some excellent lap times with an experienced driver and depending on the track, not that much slower than the higher HP car. The Z06 in the hands of a novice driver will more than often turn slower lap times over the Z51 just because of they feel the need to pin the right peddle whenever possible....what I referrer to as a "Happy Foot". Having said that, I have a MUCH larger smile on my face after a track session in a Z06 over the Z51
That extra (almost) 200 HP kicking you in the BUTT when you pin the throttle is awesome....and it will drain the gas tank twice as fast over the Z51.
Bottom line; if you can put up with the rough ride, 1/3 less mileage, a little more tailpipe noise and a bigger smile, go for the big motor. If you are looking for excellent mileage, much better riding and very capable (NEW) track car for the same price as a used Z06 that will still put a smile on your face, go for the Z51.
Here's a short video of a Z06 at ECR traking some very EASY Demo laps. NOTE that I'm letting off halfway down each straight and rolling into the corners. FYI, lap times in the lower 2's are very respectable for a street car. Sorry I don't have a like video on the same track in a Z51.
On the plus side; the 650 Ponies are very manageable on the street. I was presently surprised how easy (and smooth) it was to drive in a 30 MPH zone! Now for the track; the Z51 is quite capable of laying down some excellent lap times with an experienced driver and depending on the track, not that much slower than the higher HP car. The Z06 in the hands of a novice driver will more than often turn slower lap times over the Z51 just because of they feel the need to pin the right peddle whenever possible....what I referrer to as a "Happy Foot". Having said that, I have a MUCH larger smile on my face after a track session in a Z06 over the Z51
That extra (almost) 200 HP kicking you in the BUTT when you pin the throttle is awesome....and it will drain the gas tank twice as fast over the Z51.Bottom line; if you can put up with the rough ride, 1/3 less mileage, a little more tailpipe noise and a bigger smile, go for the big motor. If you are looking for excellent mileage, much better riding and very capable (NEW) track car for the same price as a used Z06 that will still put a smile on your face, go for the Z51.
Here's a short video of a Z06 at ECR traking some very EASY Demo laps. NOTE that I'm letting off halfway down each straight and rolling into the corners. FYI, lap times in the lower 2's are very respectable for a street car. Sorry I don't have a like video on the same track in a Z51.
12-08-2016, 11:22 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
Through the generations, the Z06 model has always rode rougher (wider tires = more road noise) and is louder inside the cabin over the base/Z51. Having spent time in both C7 models, the Z06 ride on the street is very noticeable harsher over a like, Mag Ride Z51 car with like settings. The exhaust note sounds pretty much the same, just a little louder.
On the plus side; the 650 Ponies are very manageable on the street. I was presently surprised how easy (and smooth) it was to drive in a 30 MPH zone! Now for the track; the Z51 is quite capable of laying down some excellent lap times with an experienced driver and depending on the track, not that much slower than the higher HP car. The Z06 in the hands of a novice driver will more than often turn slower lap times over the Z51 just because of they feel the need to pin the right peddle whenever possible....what I referrer to as a "Happy Foot". Having said that, I have a MUCH larger smile on my face after a track session in a Z06 over the Z51 That extra (almost) 200 HP kicking you in the BUTT when you pin the throttle is awesome....and it will drain the gas tank twice as fast over the Z51.
Bottom line; if you can put up with the rough ride, 1/3 less mileage, a little more tailpipe noise and a bigger smile, go for the big motor. If you are looking for excellent mileage, much better riding and very capable (NEW) track car for the same price as a used Z06 that will still put a smile on your face, go for the Z51.
Here's a short video of a Z06 at ECR traking some very EASY Demo laps. NOTE that I'm letting off halfway down each straight and rolling into the corners. FYI, lap times in the lower 2's are very respectable for a street car. Sorry I don't have a like video on the same track in a Z51.
On the plus side; the 650 Ponies are very manageable on the street. I was presently surprised how easy (and smooth) it was to drive in a 30 MPH zone! Now for the track; the Z51 is quite capable of laying down some excellent lap times with an experienced driver and depending on the track, not that much slower than the higher HP car. The Z06 in the hands of a novice driver will more than often turn slower lap times over the Z51 just because of they feel the need to pin the right peddle whenever possible....what I referrer to as a "Happy Foot". Having said that, I have a MUCH larger smile on my face after a track session in a Z06 over the Z51
That extra (almost) 200 HP kicking you in the BUTT when you pin the throttle is awesome....and it will drain the gas tank twice as fast over the Z51.Bottom line; if you can put up with the rough ride, 1/3 less mileage, a little more tailpipe noise and a bigger smile, go for the big motor. If you are looking for excellent mileage, much better riding and very capable (NEW) track car for the same price as a used Z06 that will still put a smile on your face, go for the Z51.
Here's a short video of a Z06 at ECR traking some very EASY Demo laps. NOTE that I'm letting off halfway down each straight and rolling into the corners. FYI, lap times in the lower 2's are very respectable for a street car. Sorry I don't have a like video on the same track in a Z51.
I think some of this depends on what part of the Country the OP is from. Here in NY, with cooler ambient temps, you CANNOT go full throttle with a Z06 if you are traveling less than 60mph. The back end will get loose, and a Z51 or GS will go past you.
The instructors at Spring Mountain Motorsports prefer a Z51/GS over a Z06 for track duty. Largely due to the better balance of a Z51/GS over Z06. Unless your race track has very long straights, the GS will turn equivalent or better track times depending on your abilities.
On the other end of the things. If someone lined up a Z51, GS and Z06 all next to eachother and said pick one, I'd pick the Z06.
Unless...
The Z06 were base and the GS had the Z07 package.
If I were buying new, and $75k were my budget, I would do GS w/Z07 first, then Z06, then Z51.
12-08-2016, 12:14 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
You never stated tranny choice and that's a big deal in your main question..
"So my main question is - am I buying a much closer to bullet-proof car (temp-wise) going with the z51, and am I risking owning a frustration-bucket with the z06 if I drive it hard on track during the summer months?"
I have seen A8 Z51's overheat quickly at the track, my M7 never even come close to overheating. When I attended spring mountain it was 116f and the M7 Z51's all seem to run fine tracking WITH the A/C on.
Tadge has stated that even with the new cooling on the Z06, go for the M7 if you want full tank of gas runs with no overheating.
"So my main question is - am I buying a much closer to bullet-proof car (temp-wise) going with the z51, and am I risking owning a frustration-bucket with the z06 if I drive it hard on track during the summer months?"
I have seen A8 Z51's overheat quickly at the track, my M7 never even come close to overheating. When I attended spring mountain it was 116f and the M7 Z51's all seem to run fine tracking WITH the A/C on.
Tadge has stated that even with the new cooling on the Z06, go for the M7 if you want full tank of gas runs with no overheating.
The following users liked this post:
Micster (12-08-2016)
12-08-2016, 12:24 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2012
Location: Hagerstown MD
Posts: 6,876
Received 1,738 Likes
on
1,174 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15-'16,'18
The instructors at SM told my class they have had very few overheating issues with their A8 Z51s. Then again, most students are only driving at 35-50%. Not sure about their Z06 experience.
12-08-2016, 12:42 PM
#9
FYI, I have a 2016 Z51 A8 that I use for both track and street. I can tell you that I have had zero overheating issues with either the engine or trans on the track. My wife and I use the car as our "Go To" car for long trips. 7 hours is as comfortable as our BMW.
I am a PCA certified Instructor and former Racer and run in the Instructor run group.
My advice:
The A8 works great on the track with the 2016 trans cooler upgrade. The M7 has no problems
The Z51 is faster than just about any other car you will encounter. I routinely hang with full-track prepared Porsche 911 GT3 and Turbos in a dead-stock street car.
The mag shock option is a total must. DO NOT buy a Z51 without it if you are planning to track the car.
The stock Michelin PSS tires are adequate for track use, but I find them a bit unpredictable. For serious track use, I'd plan on upgrading to a more pure track tire.
Finally, the stock brakes are incredible... they simply do not fade.
All told, the Z51 is a perfect car to drive to the track, do a few hot laps, and drive home. Personally, I think the Z06 is overkill, more expensive, and has overheating issues.
I am a PCA certified Instructor and former Racer and run in the Instructor run group.
My advice:
The A8 works great on the track with the 2016 trans cooler upgrade. The M7 has no problems
The Z51 is faster than just about any other car you will encounter. I routinely hang with full-track prepared Porsche 911 GT3 and Turbos in a dead-stock street car.
The mag shock option is a total must. DO NOT buy a Z51 without it if you are planning to track the car.
The stock Michelin PSS tires are adequate for track use, but I find them a bit unpredictable. For serious track use, I'd plan on upgrading to a more pure track tire.
Finally, the stock brakes are incredible... they simply do not fade.
All told, the Z51 is a perfect car to drive to the track, do a few hot laps, and drive home. Personally, I think the Z06 is overkill, more expensive, and has overheating issues.
12-08-2016, 12:46 PM
#10
Instructor
While not consider the GS?
I just bought a GS over a Z06 due to the fact that it's 100 lbs lighter and has more than enough power, but still has all the good looks, the suspension and the brakes.
I've had 3 500+ HP cars and decided I didn't need much more than that since I do track my cars as well and the GS just seemed to make them most sense. The only thing pushing me towards the Z06 was my manhood... but who gives a **** at the end of the day. I'd rather have the lighter car that's more fun to toss around on the twisties.
I just bought a GS over a Z06 due to the fact that it's 100 lbs lighter and has more than enough power, but still has all the good looks, the suspension and the brakes.
I've had 3 500+ HP cars and decided I didn't need much more than that since I do track my cars as well and the GS just seemed to make them most sense. The only thing pushing me towards the Z06 was my manhood... but who gives a **** at the end of the day. I'd rather have the lighter car that's more fun to toss around on the twisties.
12-08-2016, 01:38 PM
#11
Platinum Supporting Dealership
It really depends on what you're looking to do with it. All three models are great Corvettes.
The Z06 is a beast and extremely competitive on the track, but IMHO, if you're going to track it, you should have a little experience under your belt doing so in order to properly handle the power given ambient conditions.
The Grand Sport is really meant to be an all out track car. While it lacks the Z06's forced induction, the LT1 engine is no slouch. The suspension and chassis settings are unique to the Grand Sport and if you're looking to occasionally track your Corvette, the Grand Sport is really the way to go.
Personally, I consider the Z51 to be the perfect Corvette for a driver who has no desire to track his car, but loves spirited driving and occasionally throwing his Corvette into a tight corner every now and then, and enjoying what the Z51 can offer up.
The Z06 is a beast and extremely competitive on the track, but IMHO, if you're going to track it, you should have a little experience under your belt doing so in order to properly handle the power given ambient conditions.
The Grand Sport is really meant to be an all out track car. While it lacks the Z06's forced induction, the LT1 engine is no slouch. The suspension and chassis settings are unique to the Grand Sport and if you're looking to occasionally track your Corvette, the Grand Sport is really the way to go.
Personally, I consider the Z51 to be the perfect Corvette for a driver who has no desire to track his car, but loves spirited driving and occasionally throwing his Corvette into a tight corner every now and then, and enjoying what the Z51 can offer up.
Last edited by MacMulkin; 12-08-2016 at 01:38 PM.
12-08-2016, 06:36 PM
#13
Wow - this is all really great info...thank you!
Since the Tesla is a single gear drive (so I miss out on not only growl of an engine, but rowing through the gears as well), I REALLY prefer to get an M7.
You guys are really selling me on the GS! When did people first start taking delivery of them? I really don't want to buy the car brand new...I don't mind if it has 20k miles or so on it...
Good point about the Magnetic Ride control for a track car - I have heard that before as well, that it's a must for a car seeing track duty.
Thanks again for all the great insight!
Since the Tesla is a single gear drive (so I miss out on not only growl of an engine, but rowing through the gears as well), I REALLY prefer to get an M7.
You guys are really selling me on the GS! When did people first start taking delivery of them? I really don't want to buy the car brand new...I don't mind if it has 20k miles or so on it...
Good point about the Magnetic Ride control for a track car - I have heard that before as well, that it's a must for a car seeing track duty.
Thanks again for all the great insight!
12-08-2016, 08:48 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
all Grand Sports have MRC, in case you didn't already know. If you want a used GS, you'll be waiting a year or 2. They just came out during the 2017 model year release (late summer).
12-09-2016, 05:44 PM
#15
If I were buying a new C7, I would buy the GS in a heartbeat. Compared with my Z51 (ordered for track use), the GS is only a few K more expensive.
I'd avoid the ceramic brakes. The don't perform ant better than the iron brakes and are very expensive to replace.
However, you can probably buy a used M7 Z51 for under $55K... a great bargain.
I'd avoid the ceramic brakes. The don't perform ant better than the iron brakes and are very expensive to replace.
However, you can probably buy a used M7 Z51 for under $55K... a great bargain.
12-09-2016, 06:01 PM
#16
Former Vendor
Member Since: Aug 2005
Location: Lewisville TX
Posts: 16,898
Received 406 Likes
on
300 Posts
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
GrandSport for me seems to be the best all around solution.
Z06 if you have it in the budget to have a quick street car with a little bit of track time. Figure if you do a lot of tracking with it, as you get better it is probably going to have some cooling issues. Depends on the driver and the track it's going to and how hard your pushing it. A novice driver probably isn't going to have an issue.
Z51 if you are wanting a budget friendly car and you can put some cash into mods. If you go this route, I would get one without the mag ride and do a good coil over suspension on the car down the road.
That's me though.
Z06 if you have it in the budget to have a quick street car with a little bit of track time. Figure if you do a lot of tracking with it, as you get better it is probably going to have some cooling issues. Depends on the driver and the track it's going to and how hard your pushing it. A novice driver probably isn't going to have an issue.
Z51 if you are wanting a budget friendly car and you can put some cash into mods. If you go this route, I would get one without the mag ride and do a good coil over suspension on the car down the road.
That's me though.