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C2 Paint and Body near completion

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Old 05-12-2016, 06:11 PM
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miked16
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Default C2 Paint and Body near completion

Hi Guys, I just finished the bodywork and paint on my 63 basket case and wanted to share some of the lessons I learned from others to help with the cause. I have painted a few cars in the past, this was my first experience with fiberglass and I have this forum to thank for my success. Now that I have done it an picked up the technique, I feel I would do it again.

Body
1) Use VPA over old bonding strip joints, I didn’t and missed some big pinholes during the primer/ block process, now have defects. I will have to live with them or plan some re-work. I will decide after the buff process.
2) Pressed formed parts fit better than hand laid however with labor the hand laid parts can look nice and fit OK.
3) Love VPA, nice to work with and blends/ sticks to fiberglass very nice
4) I purchased a “wax” additive for my fiberglass work but it was probably a waste of money. Because the eye dropper I had was malfunctioning, most times I skipped the wax. Yes it was sticky when cured but once hit with the air sander, problem solved.
5) My car had flares; I wanted to return to stock openings. For the driver side the rear fender also had a blow out at the bottom so it made sense to replace the entire fender. It was easy to do, fast (about 4 hours) and came out nice. On the passenger side, I decided to save a few bucks by splicing in a “flare repair kit” . It gave me a lot of grief and took a long time to get right and it is still not as nice as the driver side. If you are on the fence about rear flare repair or whole fender replacement, my advice is to replace the fender. You will be happier.
6) Setting door and hood gaps was easier than anticipated and rewarding, I was able to set them to exactly my liking. I ordered and utilized some hinge shims as well. Headlight gaps were more challenging but came out OK.
7) I purchased an Ecklers hand laid front fender. It came with 45 step instructions. They were a little hard to follow but were obviously written by someone who had replaced a lot of fenders because the exact sequence and things to look out for and the steps to take were correct. I tried to outsmart the directions in a few places and paid the price in the form of rework. When I would take breaks for a snack or at the end of the day I would study the next step until I understood what it was saying. One example is that you must stabilize the radiator support as specified, they suggest a solid connection between the core support and the engine block. I used 5/16” threaded rod. I tried to skip this step and could not make any progress on getting the fender aligned until I went back an re-read the step

8) When replacing large body components such as a fender or bonding strip, use a paper cone to apply the bonding adhesive, it does a nice job at that “factory” look. I tried a spatula for some of the smaller seams because I wanted to economize on my usage of material. Now I have a left over ½ gallon of adhesive and some joints that are not as nice as others.
9) Plan you movements when you go to glue on a major component. Lay out the materials practice placing the part on the car and make sure you are rested / hydrated before you start. A-game. Trial fit the part to be sure you like how it goes on. Look from a lot of different angles, in my case I waited until the next weekend to be sure I was happy with the fit even though I was tempted to rush. Every time I tried to rush something I got bit and faced some rework.
10) I tried to take the skin off of my door to perform some re-work to the sub-frame. It was a failure and I had to buy a new used door on ebay. I did not use enough heat and tried to rush it.
11) My hood hinge latches were frozen. I tried to use heat to loosen them I got frustrated, used more heat and melted the fiberglass. Fail. New used hood on ebay.

Primer / Paint

1) Had bare fiberglass, skipped Gel coat because I had never used it and was more familiar with polyurethane primer, it was probably a mistake because I can see some of the fiberglass patterns through the paint. Not sure if it will buff out may have re-work in my future.
2) “Should I make an additional coat of primer and reblock the whole car”? If you ask that question the answer is “yes” I spot primed some defects and they are showing through. I will see what happens after wetsand / buff, may have re-work
3) Runs shrink as the paint dries so don’t panic, they will sand/ buff out.
4) It was fun and came out nicer than I thought. I sprayed about 2/3 gal or traditional enamel with a standard gun. I went with my 1.8mm needle because I wanted it wet, hence the runs.
5) Use the disposable water filters at your gun, they work and are inexpensive. I got mine on ebay 2 for $10.00
6) Plan spray sequence, practice while spraying primer , watch some youtube videos of other guys spraying to pick up tips there are a lot of angles such as wheel lips front and rear valance and underneath
7) Yes , it does take a full day to mask and prep for final spray even if your car is apart. Count on it.

Thanks for all the help from the forum to make this project a success!
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Ktholin (05-13-2016)
Old 05-13-2016, 09:08 AM
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929nitro
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Lookin good.
Old 05-13-2016, 01:54 PM
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Ktholin
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Thanks for sharing your experience, from which we can all learn. I have painted a few cars in the past using lacquer, but am now starting to learn the newer polyurethane paints. I agree with your comments about VPA. I am using this and/or fiberglass to do most of my repairs and find it easy to work with.

I'm starting on the inner deck lid, trunk and black out areas first until I'm up the learning curve a bit more. My biggest problem now is getting the paint gun to deliver consistent results. I've been playing with reducer, air pressure, and nozzle size, etc. As you, I am beginning to use the larger 1.8mm nozzle, as it gives me wetter and more uniform coats albeit with a higher risk of runs and sags (I'd be interested to hear DUB weigh in on this). My plan is to paint the entire car in about a year, after all the mechanical work is done.

At any rate, it is very informative, and I appreciate tips members. especially DUB. Thanks again.

Last edited by Ktholin; 05-13-2016 at 01:56 PM.
Old 05-13-2016, 06:17 PM
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DUB
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'miked16'

Very nice write-up. the car looks really good in the photo...you SHOULD FEEL proud!!!

NOW...I am NOT going do anything but add to what you wrote to HELP others. THAT is the point of your thread.


Originally Posted by miked16
Body
1) Use VPA over old bonding strip joints, I didn’t and missed some big pinholes during the primer/ block process, now have defects. I will have to live with them or plan some re-work. I will decide after the buff process.
YES...getting large pinholes is/are possible but it can be greatly reduced if when mixing the VPA..you mash it really hard on your mixing board. There is a slight learning curve...but once you figure it out....no problem.

IF they show up during priming ( because they show up in my work sometimes also)...drip primer in them...or gouge them out with a corner of a razor blade and fill them back in with the VPA.

2) Pressed formed parts fit better than hand laid however with labor the hand laid parts can look nice and fit OK.
YES...I prefer a press molded part if at all possible.
3) Love VPA, nice to work with and blends/ sticks to fiberglass very nice
YES...it is the ONLY filler I use on Corvettes when repairing fiberglass/SMC
4) I purchased a “wax” additive for my fiberglass work but it was probably a waste of money. Because the eye dropper I had was malfunctioning, most times I skipped the wax. Yes it was sticky when cured but once hit with the air sander, problem solved.
YES...laminating resin by design is going to be sticky when cured....and I personally have a major issue with adding WAX to my work. SO..like you...I either grind it off or I apply a PVA to seal the resin so it will not be sticky.
5) My car had flares; I wanted to return to stock openings. For the driver side the rear fender also had a blow out at the bottom so it made sense to replace the entire fender. It was easy to do, fast (about 4 hours) and came out nice. On the passenger side, I decided to save a few bucks by splicing in a “flare repair kit” . It gave me a lot of grief and took a long time to get right and it is still not as nice as the driver side. If you are on the fence about rear flare repair or whole fender replacement, my advice is to replace the fender. You will be happier.
Keep in mind I do this type of work for a living and some people can not grasp the concept of MY TIME...versus spending more money on a part that will take less time to install.

SO...I agree with you on replacing the entire fender/quarter panel....UNLESS the person wants to learn on how to laminate and does not have a problem with spending numerous hours doing it.

And I am also 'talking' about doing a quality repair and not just slapping mat and resin all around and 'saying' that it is RIGHT...which many of US know....that often times is the furthest from the TRUTH.

6) Setting door and hood gaps was easier than anticipated and rewarding, I was able to set them to exactly my liking. I ordered and utilized some hinge shims as well. Headlight gaps were more challenging but came out OK.

YES...getting these gaps correct for teh person who is doing it can be QUITE REWARDING.
7) I purchased an Ecklers hand laid front fender. It came with 45 step instructions. They were a little hard to follow but were obviously written by someone who had replaced a lot of fenders because the exact sequence and things to look out for and the steps to take were correct. I tried to outsmart the directions in a few places and paid the price in the form of rework. When I would take breaks for a snack or at the end of the day I would study the next step until I understood what it was saying. One example is that you must stabilize the radiator support as specified, they suggest a solid connection between the core support and the engine block. I used 5/16” threaded rod. I tried to skip this step and could not make any progress on getting the fender aligned until I went back an re-read the step

YES...following the steps and not trying to 're-invent the wheel' ..so-to-speak...is important. I am curious...I have done countless front clips and fender installs a different way...and never had to get the core support to the engine block a solid connection....just another way of doing it I guess.

8) When replacing large body components such as a fender or bonding strip, use a paper cone to apply the bonding adhesive, it does a nice job at that “factory” look. I tried a spatula for some of the smaller seams because I wanted to economize on my usage of material. Now I have a left over ½ gallon of adhesive and some joints that are not as nice as others.

YES...I have used that method also. It is useful in some scenarios but I still can use a spreader rather efficiently due to using it all the time.
9) Plan you movements when you go to glue on a major component. Lay out the materials practice placing the part on the car and make sure you are rested / hydrated before you start. A-game. Trial fit the part to be sure you like how it goes on. Look from a lot of different angles, in my case I waited until the next weekend to be sure I was happy with the fit even though I was tempted to rush. Every time I tried to rush something I got bit and faced some rework.

YES...Test fit the parts and TIME yourself if needed...so you are not panicking and mess up. Doing this type of work UNPREPARED is....just plain ignorant. Having a CLEAR MIND and KNOWING what you are doing takes A LOT of the guess work and possibilities of FAILURE out of the equation.
10) I tried to take the skin off of my door to perform some re-work to the sub-frame. It was a failure and I had to buy a new used door on ebay. I did not use enough heat and tried to rush it.

YES...these take time and a lot of heat so the adhesive will release...and PATIENCE is so important.
11) My hood hinge latches were frozen. I tried to use heat to loosen them I got frustrated, used more heat and melted the fiberglass. Fail. New used hood on ebay.

Primer / Paint

1) Had bare fiberglass, skipped Gel coat because I had never used it and was more familiar with polyurethane primer, it was probably a mistake because I can see some of the fiberglass patterns through the paint. Not sure if it will buff out may have re-work in my future.

I have more than made my position on using gelcoat well known here and this is one of the reason why. NOT 'saying' that gelcoat is the ONLY way....but I know that when I use it over my work..I have nothing to fear. And there is nothing out there that is just like gelcoat. AND there is NOTHING to fear if you are questioning the use of gelcoat on your car or not. The fear that a person may have about gelcoat.... is of the unknown...but once you KNOW...then the fear is GONE.

I HOPE that it area does not give you a fit in time.
2) “Should I make an additional coat of primer and reblock the whole car”? If you ask that question the answer is “yes” I spot primed some defects and they are showing through. I will see what happens after wetsand / buff, may have re-work
YES...priming the car ONE TIME and then sanding it and painting it can work..but I prefer to shoot the gelcoat...block it....apply my primer...block it ..and by this time the body is ready for sealing and painting.
3) Runs shrink as the paint dries so don’t panic, they will sand/ buff out.

YES...give the paint enough time to cure so you do not swipe off the paint and cause for more of a problem than you can imagine due to trying to go in on them to soon. Going in on bad paint/clear runs too quickly is like taking the skin right off of a water blister you may have and expose your raw skin under it. 'Kinda' like that.
4) It was fun and came out nicer than I thought. I sprayed about 2/3 gal or traditional enamel with a standard gun. I went with my 1.8mm needle because I wanted it wet, hence the runs.

I would MUCH RATHER have a run than DRY SPOT where you did not apply ENOUGH PAINT....ANY DAY!
5) Use the disposable water filters at your gun, they work and are inexpensive. I got mine on ebay 2 for $10.00
In some cases they are OK...but in some cases they effect air flow....but we have to do with what we have...so NO JUDGEMENT HERE. if it worked...that is all that matters for your air conditions at the time. Perfect example is shooting waterbase paint...if your air is that BAD that these filters are needed...you MAY want to rethink using a waterbased paint.
6) Plan spray sequence, practice while spraying primer , watch some youtube videos of other guys spraying to pick up tips there are a lot of angles such as wheel lips front and rear valance and underneath

Also KNOWING the air flow of where you are spraying MAKES a BIG difference. EXAMPLE: If you are in a garage and the rear of the car is at the garage door..and the front of the car is by the side exit door where the fumes are going out. SOMETIMES it is wise to start at the front of the car and work to the rear of the car. This is BECAUSE if you start at the rear of the car and filtered air coming into the garage is blowing against the rear section....it WILL flash FASTER than your lower front valance panel.....THUS ...possibly throwing you off on keeping up with the flash times....and THUS applying paint on WET PAINT that has not had time to flash correctly.

7) Yes , it does take a full day to mask and prep for final spray even if your car is apart. Count on it.

OH..DO I AGREE WITH THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for all the help from the forum to make this project a success!
Once again...looks good and hope all turns out when you are completed to your satisfaction.

DUB
Old 05-13-2016, 09:53 PM
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Nice write-ups miked16 and DUB. Thanks for your contributions.

About the sticky cured resin: this thread is interesting. I have been using warm water and dish soap to remove the 'amine blush' for each cured layer. In addition, for the last layer, I also grind and apply VPA.

About "I spot primed some defects and they are showing through.": Is this because you did not / could not properly feather in the additional primer?

Your C2 looks great from here miked16.

-Regis
Old 05-13-2016, 11:56 PM
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Dave Tracy
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I can only wish I was there. My car is still in primer and STILL sanding!

Looks great!
Old 05-14-2016, 05:35 PM
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DUB
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Originally Posted by Dave Tracy

I can only wish I was there. My car is still in primer and STILL sanding!
Dave,

What ever you do...only 'speaking' from experience...and I am sure you are well aware of. Just make sure you stay FOCUSED and stay on TASK...REGARDLESS on how long it takes. Becasue when you get to the stage of apply a sprayable product.....THAT is when all your hard work and paying attention to detail WILL pay off.

Then it is the countless HOURS of sanding and making sure it is RIGHT so when you apply COLOR.....YOU KNOW it is RIGHT.

EVERY level you get past the rough body work stage takes a MORE FOCUSED level of excellence....especially IF you want the job to turn out awesome.

I KNOW it can get quite tiring....and seem to NEVER get to 'that point'.....BUT...with every stroke of the sandpaper is ONE LESS than you know you need to put into it.

DUB

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