to all here.......i send an appoligy........last post......

 

Don't apologize, the stock HU truly is a POS. I had the non-Bose HU in my C5 and it was an unbeleiveable POS. I will agree with Jeff, though, in that most decks have too much poopie on the face.

MS

 

Because an aftermarket HU has lot's of bright flashing lights and buttons does not make is superior to the Delco HU. I find most aftermarket decks to be more show than go. Not one person has ever been able to prove that their aftermarket HU has superior distortion performance to the Delco/Bose HU, when using the pre-amp outputs. I agree that the Bose system is a disapointment, but it can be improved with some add ons and proper speaker placement. The answer is not always toss the entire system and start over. Too many people associate being loud with sounding good. The average person maybe pumps 5-10 watts average out of his deck.

In fact, the Delco internal power amp is about as powerful as any one piece aftermarket HU. Most aftermarket deck manufacturers are lying SOB's who would sell their mother to make a buck. I find very few of their power ratings credible. Unless an aftermarket HU is a two piece unit with internal high voltage DC to DC converter in it, you cannot be "high power". You can only generate so many watts out of an amp running off 13.8 volts and driving a 4 ohm speaker. When cars go to a 42 volt electrical system, audio power will only go up. You will not need aftermarket power amps to get home stereo power in a car.

 

99HT,

Don't want to start an argument, but there are MANY headunits that are far more functional than the stock head unit.

Also,
This statement is grossly inaccurate. That is how one achieves the best sound around, by using the pre-amp outputs.

 

99 Ht was stating using the preamp outputs out of the delco unit. Not a aftermarket. You need to slow down and read a little closer. But in your defense I really doubt the bench specs on a delco are very good. I have used both and the Delco lacks volage output on the preouts and requires you to turn up the gain to much on the amps which creates distortion.


[Modified by Wicked C5, 12:17 PM 11/1/2001]

 

and yes the Delco is a POS when compared to other stock radios. My Lexus Nakamichi deck I kept and added on to awsome unit sounded great. The Bose deck in my Acura Cls kept all the speakers just added the sub sounded great. The 6 dash in dash changer in my 25k 01 Nissan truck not only looks better then the delco deck but performs much better and never gets jammed. All three of those units came with seperate tweeters in the door. What a F'in concept "GM are you hearing this" The corvette shouldn't have the same radio that comes in a cavalier in a corvette that is just wrong. The cd changers that came in both my 97 C5 and my 99 both got jammed everyone so often. Look in the Ecklers Catalog and Mid America catalog and see how many rebuild kits they have for Bose amps and decks. This just proves they suck and brake down alot.

99ht I respect the information that you give people to upgrade there stock decks but please don't try to tell them that the GM deck is as good if not beter then a aftermarket HU because it's not and probley will never be. :cry :(

P.S I tossed my Delco unit in my first C5 after adding new front speakers and a sub. It still sounded crappy. I changed the HU and WAMMO it sounded great. Gee I wonder why


[Modified by Wicked C5, 10:31 AM 11/1/2001]

 

"In my defense"
This is exactly what I was alluding to. :crazy:

 

Prove your claims. I have $250k worth of test equipment that can measure ANY test of a stereo or tuner one would want to do. Tuner, power amp etc. Prove that your deck is so superior, comparing pre-amp to pre-amp output.

The Delco HU's use a Japanese CD mechanism whose basic components are in many aftermarket auto decks. The pre-amp outputs of the Delco/Bose HU use a standard quad op-amp IC for the buffer circuit. It has no drive problems at all up to 9 volts pk-pk. If you overdrive any power amp, it will distort. It has nothing to do with the pre-amp. The volume/tone control IC has very good distortion and noise specs. The Delco deck is simplicity itself, there is very little circuitry in the audio path to cause distortion.

I have no love for the Delco deck. I personally think that GM, Delco and Bose management are a bunch of jerks. At the same time you cannot say because something says Delco on it that it is total unusable junk. Using the pre-amp outputs on the Delco deck to drive aftermarket external amps and speakers can still sound very good. Many people on the forum have kept thier Bose HU. I defy anyone to prove that a CD played on their deck versus using the Delco/Bose deck would be far superior if they both drive identical amps and speakers.

 

You have me mistaken for someone else. I do not recall saying it was "junk."
My argument was simply that there are many aftermark HU's that offer more functionality - as seen in the following quote from above:
That's TRUE!

As far as preamps from the Delco/Bose unit - I've never taken the time to "rig" a unit up so that it has usable pre-amp outputs. I'll have to assume you know what are talking about here. Though, it's really indifferent to me because I required far more functionality than the stock head unit could offer! :seeya

 

QuoteProve your claims. I have $250k worth of test equipment that can measure ANY test of a stereo or tuner one would want to do. Tuner, power amp etc. Prove that your deck is so superior, comparing pre-amp to pre-amp output.

99ht have you had a quality aftermarket head unit in you car and compared for yourself? It kinda hard to make claims that the Delco unit when you haven't done it yourself. I have had both. I've done it my 97 C5 and a 95 Z28. I lived with the results in the Z28 but couldn't deal with the poor delco unit in my Vette

If I lived about 3000 miles closer I would take you up on your offer but here's a suggestion go to Best buy and buy there most expensive head unit. Bench test it and put it in your car then bring it back.


[Modified by Wicked C5, 10:35 PM 11/1/2001]


[Modified by Wicked C5, 10:36 PM 11/1/2001]

 

Edward E. Traylor, III

None of my comments are directed at any one person in particular. I am just lazy in my postings to not direct them at anyone specifically.

Wicked C5

The distortion of the Delco/Bose HU at it's pre-amp outputs is on par with almost any aftermarket HU. If you don't like a particular Delco system, the problem is the ENTIRE system and how it was put together, not one specific component. Unfortunately GM and most other car companies use the cheapest speakers they can buy. I could make your Z-28 Monsoon system sound pretty good by replacing the stock speakers and amps, but keeping the stock Delco HU.

To everyone else:

I have been answering posts and emails for a year from people on the forum. Every time someone asks for help or advice on improving his stock system, the peanut galley chimes in with "replace your entire POS Bose system". This is not helpful. I realize that everyone with a new HU and system is proud of it, but if the person wanted info on a totally new system, he would have asked for it. I rarely answer questions about what aftermarket equipment to use. There are many forum members who are more familiar with the numerous aftermarket components available than I would be.

High priced aftermarket systems and the cosmetic changes to the cars interior to install it don't turn everyone on. Some people believe their car is worth more stock than modified when sold. This is very true for Corvettes. Many people just want to improve the sound of the present system. I give people options they were told were not available.

 

99ht Like I said in one of my previous post's. I respect the information that you give people about upgrading the stock system. I only responded to this thread when I saw so miguided information being passed on please don't mislead them into thinking the Gm unit is as good if not better then almost all the aftermarket radios out there. Plain and simple the Gm Cd deck is about as good as a $149 cd/radio you can buy at best buy. The changer is a standard Pioneer cd changer which cost's about $199.

I've done both upgraded the stock deck and put a aftermarket radio in my C5 and I can tell you there is no comparission between the two if you buy a good quality aftermarket radio. The delco unit is comparable to Audiovox and a low end sony. Matter of fact the cd changer that came in my Z28 from the factory was a Audiovox except it said something like OEM concepts.

I really wish someone would make a quailty din and 1/2 unit to fill up the space completly.




[Modified by Wicked C5, 8:40 AM 11/2/2001]

 

Jeff

I agree with a earlier post about the Dsd216 mb quartz but if you put those up from you would loose your Bose subs and probley end up with less bass then you had before. If your going to add a seperate rear sub through those speaker are great for the money. When I had my stock deck I used those up front and it improved the quite a bit. If you decide to keep your stock subs then buy some Mb quatz 4 inch comp. and pull out the twidlers in the front door. You will have to cut the hole where the twidelers are a little to make them fit.

 

I have to jump in here....

There is nothing inherently wrong with the Stock HU. Remember something here.
When you go to an aftermarket HU then you must add aftermarket amps. The After market amps most people use are much more powerful than the Bose. Also they must use Aftermarket speakers to support the impedence levels.

Bottom line you changed the POWER and Speakers. You assume it was the HU that sounds so great. Try adding an aftermarket HU with a Bose adapter and use the existing amps and speakers. You'll be hard pressed to HEAR a difference.

I agree with 99HT


If you like the bells and whistles then spend the money. But for sound.... Just upgrade the amps and Speakers...

 

Wich is what I decided to do. I didn't want the to turn into another BOSE sucks thread, all I wanted were some suggestions on speakers and an amp to use WITH my Bose HU.

Thank you to all who gave me suggestions and input for what I was looking for.

I'll be posting pics of my upgrade.

 

I've been recommending that the stock Hu be kept for years now, even earlier than 99HT. As he said the peanut gallery recommends swapping everything. Modern HU electronics have gotten to the point where there isn't a noticable difference compared to aftermarket. The only differences are mainly features and usability. The stock HU has good usability, ok features, and no need to worry about theft. With his great research info and posts about the stock HU, 99HT has made it incredibly easy to have an awesome sounding system off the stock HU.

I said this years ago, I'll say it again. The sound comes from the speakers, not the HU. The audio signal comes from the HU-that raw signal is no worse than any other HU, at least not at a noticeable level. If you want to change the sound, change the speakers.

Sam

 

You must have some real low expectations of what is awsome sound the delco can create decent sound but is by no means awsome.

Again how many of you that claim that the delco deck can create awsome sound have actually compared it with a quality aftermarket deck. I have :yesnod:

I orginally had my system hooked up to the delco deck the way 99ht instructions say to compare it with a aftermarket deck. It sounded OK but not great kinda flat alot of mids not alot of highs and soso bass. As soon as I my Z828 deck in the system came alive. Great bass and highs. Wake up people there is a differance.

You can improve the stock system to a point but it has limits. I've heard speedracers system and it sounds good for a stock deck but he listened to mine and knew there was no comparrison. He has done a great job on his system for the small amount of money he has put into it.

 

""""""I orginally had my system hooked up to the delco deck the way 99ht instructions say to compare it with a aftermarket deck. It sounded OK but not great kinda flat alot of mids not alot of highs and soso bass. As soon as I my Z828 deck in the system came alive. Great bass and highs. Wake up people there is a differance. """"""""

You just endorsed the Stock HU here. Again The basic signal coming from it is fine. You need more control over the Bass, Midrange and Treble. Equalizers do that. Ok so we admit that the Stock HU has crappy contol of this. But why do we need to blow $600+ bucks to get to that level?

 

You don't need to buy a $600 headunit you can get a real nice one with some decent specs for about $300 that would blow away the Delco unit. All is I want from you guys is to compare the two and see for yourself. Its kinda like if You had a Zr1 and thought it was better then a Z06 even though you've never driven one. You can't be sure till you've tried both. :cool:

 

I do see your point...
I have been on both sides of the fence Stock and Aftermarket. Stock has gotten much better over the years. Still not the quality and pizaz of the aftermarket. I just can't justify the $5000 to get "perfect" sound out of the C5.

Most stuff is fine. Just lacks Tight hard lows and crisp highs. A great sub with clean high power and tweeters in the pillars can fix that.

I was in a C5 that had MB Quarts Multiple subs in the rear new HU. Everything replaced and dynomatted to the max. All I really noticed that was different was the crisp tight bass that made my chest hurt and the defening volume that it could be played at. :D