Ok - I'm thinking of doing it myself with your help.
From another post "going active means that you have each speaker powered by it's own individual chan. In my case i have one amp that powers my tweets, one amp that powers teh 7" midbass woofers in the doors and another amp that powers the sub... of course this can be done with a single amp...they just didn't have a tube amp that would do it all for me...
this opens up your options of what drivers you can use and instead of being limited to the crossover that comes with the component set.

you usually can save a lot on the drivers and still get improved quality, though tuning can be tougher. If you went with that amp (or similar) and spent about ~$200 in seas drivers (mid and tweeter) you could get a very kick *** system

I have a Alpine PDX 4.150. I'm not running rear speakers.
What Seas drivers would you recommend for similar/better sound quality than the Pioneer 720 PRS?
I like bright highs and in my face vocals and drums, especially snare and tom-toms. I have a seperate sub and sub amp. My Kenwood headunit
(KVT-819) has some sound shaping functions.
Also, what more do I need to go active, besides the speakers and amp with built in x-over?
Do I need a seperate 3 way x-over?
Thanks for the information.

 

The PDX amps sadly have poor crossovers. Only goes up to 300hz, or somewhere around there. So you'll need an external active crossover, or a head unit capable of running in 3 way mode.

The Seas Neo aluminum dome tweeters aren't overly bright, but they great snap to them, for $60 a pair. They are the best overall tweeters I've ever owned. Not as detailed as focal tn-51, but a whole lot more forgiving in install, which is why I rank it over them...

They are much nicer than Dynaudio tweeters, they rock over the silk/aluminum Directed set, and the CDT HD tweeter... don't make me laugh.

Can't comment on midrange/midbass from personal experience. I know the Peerless 7" SLS is a favorite for midbass, but I dont know how high it plays.

www.madisound.com you can check out various seas drivers.

 

i think i'd try those seas tweeters and maybe the Seas g18rnx/p for the woofers:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...eas+g18rnx%2Fp

those are the woofers i went with and i think they cost me about $150 bucks for the pair. you can only get them at solen.ca but you can get some varients of them at madisound: ca18rnx
"CA18rnx is warmer, softer, more forgiving. G18rnx is more lively and detailed. All of the "RNX" drivers share the same motor."

if you really want to get into the sh--, check out this site:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/

and www.diymobileaudio.com those guys are insane

fej will surely chime in as well. i think he has auditioned the lpg's

The north d2506 sounds like a good value in a large format tweeter as well:
http://www.northcreekmusic.com/WhatsNew.htm

 

also read up on this thread:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ad.php?t=14817

 

scott_fx...

Thanks for the Zaph|Audio link. There's a TON of useful information there, and the site owner knows what he's doing. I've spent quite a bit of time digging up my old tests to compare to his.

I encourage EVERYONE who wants to learn about speakers (and why some are good/bad) to visit this site. The DIY home projects are worth looking at as well. $300 plus some elbow grease gets you a pair of home speakers that would compare favorably in the $2000+ price range. Great stuff.

 

no problem, that guy is awesome. i'm actually building his cheap bose beaters right now for my g/f's mother and they are sounding pretty good already.

he also has a 6.5"-7" driver comparo:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/6.5test/

if you want to save a little money you may want to look at the Dayton RS180, it got good reviews and it seems if you matched it with a large format tweeter and crossed it over low enough you'd have a good set of speakers. i'm by no means an expert at this, i'm trying all this out for myself and learning along the way. you can always sell the speakers if you dont like them (diymobileaudio.com has an active for sale section) and you wont lose your shirt


speaking of for sale:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ad.php?t=14980

tube hybrid amp :-) for your front stage and solid state for your sub (that the exact combo i am running)

 

Thanks for the information. I've been reading those links for about 2 hours now, and a lot of the measurements are way over my head.
Kale in your post about the 2 variants of Seas tweeters, what model were you refering to: The 27TAFNCG or the 27TBFCG?
Also should I be concerned about paper coned woofers in my doors?

 

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=633

sold each

 

i want to say that tha ca18rnx is a treated paper cone...but dont quote me, i'd email madisound.

 

Yes, they're treated. The Vifa XG18 is a viable alternative to the C18RNX. More pleasant midrange in the XG18, but slightly better midbass in the C18RNX. The Peerless 830883 has also performed well.

 

here is a subjective review on a bunch of drivers by forum member npdang:
Since I see this question asked so many times, I decided to write a guide that touches on some of the more popular 7” drivers. I know everyone likes ratings, so I made an attempt to rate each driver from 1 to 10, 10 being best.

Value – Overall, how does this driver perform given it’s price?
Build – How sturdy and robust is the driver’s construction? Does it offer advanced features such as cone technology, suspension, frame, etc.?
Midrange clarity – How realistic does this driver sound? Are details rendered with absolute precision?
Bass performance – How clean is this driver at producing bass? How much bass can this driver provide?
Ease of use – How simple would it be to achieve optimal results with this driver? How easy would it be to integrate to a wide variety of tweeters?

7” mid/bass:

Seas RNX drivers – Comes in many flavors, but are essentially the same driver. The /p in the model# refers to a phaseplug. Model #’s are P for poly, L for aluminum, G for fiberglass, CA for paper. For example L18rnx/p refers to an aluminum cone with phaseplug.

Poly – Unlike Dynaudio for example, the Seas poly cone is a pure poly cone and unblended with mica or any other stiffening elements (IIRC). This yields a very well dampened cone that provides a smooth frequency and extremely forgiving nature at the expense of detail. Special note, the P18rnx/p is the only model to use the latest “adaptive surround” which is used on Seas higher end Excel drivers. The adaptive surround provides greater dampening at higher frequencies for a smoother response, and less dampening in the lower frequencies.

Aluminum – Provides the best detail retrieval, but has significant upper end breakup which should be attenuated to reduce coloration and distortion. Can be a difficult driver to work with, and should ideally be used below 2khz necessitating a high performance tweeter.

Fiberglass – This is the best compromise between detail and warmth. Robust sounding, but not overly laid back or heavy. Has excellent top end extension that will mate easily to any tweeter and requiring very little filtering up top. The only downside is that this unit has been discontinued and could be hard to find. Solen.ca usually has some stock.

Paper – A very warm, smooth, robust sounding midrange. Generally considered the most neutral sounding driver of the three, although detail retrieval is nearly as bad as the poly cone. Definitely has more character and presence than the poly. Good top end extension means this driver mates quite easily to any number of compact tweeters.

These drivers represent an amazing value. Seas is a brand that’s well known for its unit to unit consistency, build quality, and quality control. This sets them apart from many other brands such as Tang band, Hi-vi, etc. in my experience. Another strong point is the very low mechanical noise, and the whopping 22mm peak-peak throw. Very few drivers can match this level of output, and it’s probably the maximum limit you can achieve in a mounting depth of just 3”. Although many drivers will advertise high xmax numbers, they sometimes have so much chuffing, clanking, and complaining that it’s all but unusable. Clean, brute force excursion is the name of the game here. Typical in-door bass response offers flat response to 30hz.

Value: 7
Build: 7
Midrange clarity: (Poly 4, Paper 5, Glass 6, Aluminum 7)
Bass performance: 8
Ease of use: (Poly 10, Paper 7, Glass 9, Aluminum 2)

Peerless Exclusive 830883

Another top performer. Build quality and unit to unit consistency is top notch and on par with Seas. Mechanical noise during high excursion is very low. Amazingly, distortion performance is among the best rivaling that of the Seas Excel, which is often considered the pinnacle of low distortion drivers. A bit less bass output and brute force excursion than the Seas RNX series, but at mid and lower output levels slightly cleaner as well. I would describe the tonal characteristics as dry, but with much of the robust nature and presence of a good paper cone. Clarity and realism is exceptional. Upper end response does need some contouring, otherwise the driver can sound shouty and aggressive. Definitely the driver for someone looking for the best clarity and enjoys the sound of a well executed paper cone.

Value: 9
Build: 8
Midrange clarity: 8
Bass performance: 7
Ease of use: 7

Dayton rs180

Dayton drivers come in at a very low price point making them the most easily affordable driver in the bunch. I find that the build quality is good, although unit to unit consistency can be anywhere from fair to good in my experience. Detail and clarity are very good, and an amazing performance even at a much higher price point. I find total bass output to be slightly less than the Peerless, and about comparable in performance. Mechanical noise performance is good, but not excellent. Where this driver really shines is it’s midrange clarity, which comes very close to what I would consider the reference driver, Seas Excel magnesium cone. It does sound slightly more polite, laid back than the Seas magnesium cones however. Very strong, multiple breakup modes in the upper end make this driver difficult to use especially in minimizing coloration and mating to a compact dome tweeter.

Value: 10
Build: 7
Midrange clarity: 9
Bass performance: 6.5
Ease of use: 2


Vifa XG18

One of my favorite fiberglass cone drivers. Do not confuse this driver with the XT wood pulp driver also from the Vifa line. Clarity is somewhat noticeably better than the Seas RNX series, as in less haziness and softness to the presentation. Upper end extension is smooth and extended, and should mate easily to any number of compact tweeters. Unfortunately, not a strong bass performer. The inverted multi-roll surround smoothes the frequency response as well. One of the best drivers for someone who doesn’t posses a lot of tuning capability.

Value: 6
Build: 7
Midrange clarity: 7.5
Bass performance: 4
Ease of use: 10

Focal 6w4311

It’s unfortunate that Focal has left the diy market. A very difficult driver to find nowadays, but still deserves special mention. The 6w4311 possesses a unique blend of clarity and character that make it one of the best drivers that I’ve heard midrange wise. It’s nearly similar in clarity to a metal cone, but almost completely absent of any metallic coloration or fatigue. Mediocre non-linear distortion performance and motor design hampers what I would consider to be one of the most advanced cones available. The driver requires modest filtering up top, but can still be mated easily to most compact tweeters.

This version differs dramatically from the 6w2 used in the retail car audio component sets, namely in that it uses the latest generation cone…. which is stiffer, thinner, and bears a striking similarity to the Audiom line, and also features a flat spider instead of a cupped spider design. You will also notice that this version has a metal phase plug, but without the bullet shaped cone at the top. Bass performance is not quite as good as the 6w2, and more on par with the Vifa XG.

**Edit - Zalytron and Orcadesign now sell a "b" version of the 6w4311 that's shielded. With a higher qts it's more suitable for car door use. Another notable change is the cone is no longer a constrained layer of foam between two glass sheets, but an even thinner cone with a single layer of glass and foam underneath.

Value: 6
Build: 8
Midrange clarity: 8
Bass performance: 5
Ease of use: 6.5

Seas Excel W18 Magnesium cone

The reference driver for those seeking the absolute best resolution, accuracy, and clarity. The magnesium cone of this driver is remarkably stiff, and coupled with a world class motor design and low loss suspension offers amazing realism and detail. A somewhat older design, bass performance is good but not up to par with the more recent designs such as the RNX series. Although difficult to work with, the single well defined breakup mode and ruler flat response makes it easier to deal with than most typical metal cone drivers.

Value: 6
Build: 9
Midrange clarity: 10
Bass Performance: 6
Ease of use: 4

Seas Lotus rw165

Similar to the Seas Excel w17, an older generation variant of the W18. It features a shorter voice coil, as well as no ventilation under the spider or pole vent. This driver comes with weather treatment on the cone which makes it appear black rather than white, and although it’s somewhat restricted design prevents maximum airflow through the driver it also serves to protect the driver from moisture and dirt entering the motor. It’s also one of the only 4 ohm drivers that Seas makes, with significantly higher q and fs values gives this driver more snap in the bass region, albeit at the expense of low end extension. It’s also nearly half a cm shallower than the RNX series drivers.

Value: 4
Build: 9
Midrange clarity: 10
Bass Performance: 5
Ease of use: 4

Seas W18NX

The pinnacle of Seas driver design. Utilizing a higher excursion motor than the W18, Seas replaces the stiff magnesium cone and low loss suspension with a high tech adaptive suspension and stiff, Nextel treated paper cone. The result is a stiff cone which offers some measure of internal dampening reducing coloration and allowing for more flexible upper end crossover points. The result? Better bass performance than the RNX series, and midrange qualities nearly similar to that of a metal cone driver without the associated heavy ringing and breakup.

Value: 7
Build: 10
Midrange clarity: 9
Bass Performance: 10
Ease of use: 6

Scan-Speak Revelator 18w/4531g

One of the most highly regarded and popular driver in its class. The Revelator offers an exceptionally high output/low distortion motor design, along with a well ventilated chassis and unconventional slit paper cone. This is one of the best examples of a paper cone driver available. Renown for having extremely low coloration and a most natural presentation, combined with good top end extension and ease of use.

Value: 6
Build: 9
Midrange clarity: 8
Bass Performance: 9
Ease of use: 8

Usher 8945p

An improved clone of the infamous Scan-Speak 8545. Famous for it’s dark, warm, rich sound. Some describe it as velvety. Quite a good mix of detail and warmth. Some minor frequency response issues to worry about, but nothing severe. Solidly built, with a low distortion motor and great bass output. Magnet size is large.

Value: 6
Build: 8
Midrange clarity: 6
Bass Performance: 7.5
Ease of use: 7
__________________

from:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ight=Vifa+XG18

 

After about 7 hours I'm officially out done. It's too much. I guess I just need to be prepared to go through a few. The mids especially.
The Seas W18NX, how would they match up with the Seas 27TAFNC/G?

 

For half the money, the 830883 will do just as well in a car environment. The W18NX is an excellent driver that will be hard to take advantage of in a car even with the necessary test equipment. The rising midrange response may not merge well with the 27TAFNC/G because it has a response bump in the same region. Unless you're prepared to make some passive filters, that is.

 

the reason why i chose the g18rnx/p was that it is a great performer and easy to use/tune.

imho, since this is your first active setup id probably go with either that speaker or the vifa that spkrboy recommended

 

To keep you from getting overwhelmed .. IMO the vette factory grill represents a great opportunity to do a nice 2 way setup with a 7" mid and a large format home derived tweeter. Something like a Peerless HDS or the home variant of that Seas 27tanfc/g. These larger format tweets allow you to run the mid up to around 1.6 to 2k with a steeper slope and help eliminate the common breakup that most 7's suffer from in this range or slightly higher. The large format tweet with its much lower fs than normal compact tweets have allow you to pick up nicely where the mid left off without complex tuning or severe underlap.

I believe I am headed this way myself. Going to pair my Focal Polykevlar 7" mid with a Peerless HDS tweet in the door and see how I can get that to sound before heading back to the 3 way with tweets in the A pillars. Since it is my weekend car I am trying to go more simple and pull a little weight out for auto/x etc. We shall see in the coming month or so .. need to wrap up my truck install first.

I like the "g" cone as well ... or that Peerless paired with one of the above mentioned tweets unless you want to start spending serious dollars on components and then I would probably lean toward the hiquphon OW1 or OW2. The new nextel cone has been getting great reviews but it is hard for me to say that you will notice a large improvement over the Peerless or rnx line for 2x the money in a car.

Fej

 

Thank you again for the info guys.
After more reading, I'm better.
Please offer opinions on these combos:
Vifa XG18 mid and Vifa XT25 tweet
or
Peerless HDS 830883 mid and Peerless HDS 810921 tweet
or
Seas G18rnx and Peerless 810921 tweet

Is there anything to be gained by sticking with the same manufacturer for both units?

 

That peerless 810921 doesn't look like its so good off axis. Falls right off at 10k. Ring radiator tweeters tend to be very directional too, so I wouldn't put either of those tweeters in the doors. If you could build kicks, they would probably rock - But the Vette is a bad car for that.

If you end up with a bump in response in both drivers, you can simply gap it.

IE, if both speakers have a bump at 3k, cross the mid over at 2.8k, and the tweeter at 3.2k...


This combination will eventually end up in my Vette to replace my Dynaudio set (which will go in the truck)
Seas 27TAFNC/G (H1397) + Seas ER18RNX (H1456), crossover ~2.5-3k.

Honestly, I've never been so impressed with a tweeter as I have been with the little seas neo. Likewise, I've only been so happy with a single driver once before - My $450 IDMAX sub.



Though if you want to go large format, why not pick a more bad-*** midbass? Like the Peerless SLS series. Cheap, and has quite a reputation for midbass. And many 8s will fit in the C5s doors. There is a 7" version too, though I dont know who sells it.

You can run the SLS up to about 2k or so before you start having problems. In fact, I'd say you would need a steep crossover, because they spike at ~3.5-4k.

Though DIy 8s are REALLY 8s, unlike a lot of car audio 8s, which are more like 7.5. Much harder to get in the doors.

 

No, and in fact, some manufacturers build poor mids/great tweets or vice/versa. It's a matter of finding what works properly in YOUR application.

 

update?