Considering upgrading my amps.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,995
Likes: 2
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '08
Considering upgrading my amps.
I'm currently running a pair of Alpine MRP F250 amps to a set of 4 Alpine SPX 177r comp speakers. The amps are bridged at 100 Watts x 2 output. I'm looking at the slightly larger (and reasonably priced since last year) MRP F450. It's only 2 inches wider than my current amps and would fit in the same space in my Amp rack. It would also accept the same KOL 8 power/ground wires i'm using. (my current setup has the amps as the weakest link)
Ideally, the MRP F450 model would supply 200 Watts per channel. The SPX 177r speakers have a peak power handling of 300watts and I feel the Woofers are being significantly underpowered.
Thoughts?
Ideally, the MRP F450 model would supply 200 Watts per channel. The SPX 177r speakers have a peak power handling of 300watts and I feel the Woofers are being significantly underpowered.
Thoughts?
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
Hmmn... I think you know what I'm going to say without reading my post. 
Right now my lights dim when my midbass hits. I think that's a good starting point.
Overhead is a good thing. Music is extremely dynamic. But you have to be responsible with the gain.
Right now my lights dim when my midbass hits. I think that's a good starting point.
Overhead is a good thing. Music is extremely dynamic. But you have to be responsible with the gain.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,995
Likes: 2
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '08
Indeed. The RMS on my speakers is 75w, but the peak is 300W. Does this justify the addition of another 100 watts per channel?
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
I think headroom is always a good thing. I'm running a rated 350w to speakers which call for 150w.
Let me ask you this - What prompted your question? Does it feel like you are missing something?
Let me ask you this - What prompted your question? Does it feel like you are missing something?
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,995
Likes: 2
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '08
When I originally designed my system, the MRP F250 and F450 were new amps. I only went with the 250 because they were less expensive but designed the amp rack to support the larger 450 in the future. In the past year, new stuff has come out that made the price on the 450 drop.
Since I've owned my system, I feel that most of my "high bass" has been coming from the sub. The JL 500 pushes the JL12w6v2 very well and in some cases it seems to overpower the rest of the system. to remedy this problem I've installed a remote bass boost for the JL amp in the center console and played with the EQ but I know this is just a Band-Aid for the problem.
My goal is to get a more powerful kick from the midranges and balance them out with the sub. If I sell my old amps and buy the new ones, I would be out ~$50-100.
Since I've owned my system, I feel that most of my "high bass" has been coming from the sub. The JL 500 pushes the JL12w6v2 very well and in some cases it seems to overpower the rest of the system. to remedy this problem I've installed a remote bass boost for the JL amp in the center console and played with the EQ but I know this is just a Band-Aid for the problem.
My goal is to get a more powerful kick from the midranges and balance them out with the sub. If I sell my old amps and buy the new ones, I would be out ~$50-100.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
It might help a little, but it's not going to be a revolutionary change.
Have you done "the phase thing?" That took my midbass from "good" to "brutal."
Start with all speakers in electronic phase.
Turn off all EQ, all time alignment, etc. Turn off your rear speakers. Turn off your tweeters. So ONLY your front midranges are playing.
Pick about 10 songs with midrange/midbass you are familiar with. Especially stuff with centered vocals.
Listen to a little of each song to familiarize yourself.
Now, flip the polarity on the driver side woofer and listen again.
Pick the one that sounds more centered and powerful without time
alignment.
Now turn off your mids, and do it just with your tweeters. Same thing, pick the most centered.
Now try them together. If it sounds off, flip BOTH midbasses' polarity at once and compare.
Once happy, then you can turn time alignment back on.
I found that in my case, driver's woofer wired backwards, everything else wired normally made my system sound awesome.
Have you done "the phase thing?" That took my midbass from "good" to "brutal."
Start with all speakers in electronic phase.
Turn off all EQ, all time alignment, etc. Turn off your rear speakers. Turn off your tweeters. So ONLY your front midranges are playing.
Pick about 10 songs with midrange/midbass you are familiar with. Especially stuff with centered vocals.
Listen to a little of each song to familiarize yourself.
Now, flip the polarity on the driver side woofer and listen again.
Pick the one that sounds more centered and powerful without time
alignment.
Now turn off your mids, and do it just with your tweeters. Same thing, pick the most centered.
Now try them together. If it sounds off, flip BOTH midbasses' polarity at once and compare.
Once happy, then you can turn time alignment back on.
I found that in my case, driver's woofer wired backwards, everything else wired normally made my system sound awesome.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,995
Likes: 2
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '08
Interesting....I will have to try that.
I can always depend on you to come up with ceative solutions with even more creative titles..... "the phase thing"
I"ll give it a try when get home.
I can always depend on you to come up with ceative solutions with even more creative titles..... "the phase thing"
I"ll give it a try when get home.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Radio Flyer,
Just get you a JL 450/4 for the highs and be done with it. I love mine and after my car was tuned it's more than enough power.
Below is a link to my install:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ad.php?t=17514
Shane
Just get you a JL 450/4 for the highs and be done with it. I love mine and after my car was tuned it's more than enough power.
Below is a link to my install:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ad.php?t=17514
Shane
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Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,995
Likes: 2
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '08
Radio Flyer,
Just get you a JL 450/4 for the highs and be done with it. I love mine and after my car was tuned it's more than enough power.
Below is a link to my install:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ad.php?t=17514
Shane
Just get you a JL 450/4 for the highs and be done with it. I love mine and after my car was tuned it's more than enough power.
Below is a link to my install:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ad.php?t=17514
Shane
The rack was designed for the Alpine MRP series:
Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 744
Likes: 0
From: WayTooCloseToNY Northeast PA
"the phase thing"
after my car was tuned it's more than enough power.
You also have to remember that loudspeakers are not simply IN or OUT of phase. Phase is measured in degrees, so for example, two drivers which are 90 degrees out of acoustic phase relative to one another will remain 90 degrees out whether you reverse the electrical polarity of one or both. It's not a simple thing to rectify. You can certainly improve the sound by messing with what little control you have but it will be at the expense of some other listening position (if that's important). More power won't have any effect on it whatsoever.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,995
Likes: 2
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '08
my listening position is the only important one
I rarely carry passengers, mostly because my driving scares people. My ERA G320 doesn't have a degree variable phase option so I'm limited what corrections I do have: Time alignment, 14 band graphic EQ, Phase reversal and those nifty SPX series passive Xovers.
I'm hearing conflicting opinions on the amp upgrade.
I rarely carry passengers, mostly because my driving scares people. My ERA G320 doesn't have a degree variable phase option so I'm limited what corrections I do have: Time alignment, 14 band graphic EQ, Phase reversal and those nifty SPX series passive Xovers.
I'm hearing conflicting opinions on the amp upgrade.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
my listening position is the only important one
I rarely carry passengers, mostly because my driving scares people. My ERA G320 doesn't have a degree variable phase option so I'm limited what corrections I do have: Time alignment, 14 band graphic EQ, Phase reversal and those nifty SPX series passive Xovers.
I'm hearing conflicting opinions on the amp upgrade.
I rarely carry passengers, mostly because my driving scares people. My ERA G320 doesn't have a degree variable phase option so I'm limited what corrections I do have: Time alignment, 14 band graphic EQ, Phase reversal and those nifty SPX series passive Xovers.
I'm hearing conflicting opinions on the amp upgrade.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,995
Likes: 2
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '08