Instead of my installer ripping me a new one with the price on dynamat I figured I'd buy it and bring it to my install.

The Dynamat Bulk pack is in 9 pieces totaling 36 sq ft.

Two Questions:

How much to dynamat is needed in a convertible from the seats all the way back?

How much to do a whole c5 vette?

 

I didnt do my entire car with dynamat, thats kinda overkill in my opinion but I dont know what all your putting in your system. Anyway, I did do the Frost King all through my car and it took about 75-90 sq ft (they come in rolls of 15 sq ft).

That does not include the doors though.. and they are one of the biggest things you will want to put dynamat in.

Hope that helps some.. you can look at my carpc link in my sig to see where I put dynamat down and where all I put the Frost King too.

 

check out fatmat or edead, about 1/5 the price. we did my vert with dynamat before I knew better and it took 2 bulk packs to do my entire car, doors and everything.



I got 100 sq ft of fatmat to do my silverado for 129 shipped.

 

The following is plucked from the C5 audio sticky (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1117959) (Post #4 specifically)...I am sure I have seen, somewhere, exactly how much material is needed for each area of the car. I will see if I can find it. But, if you read the whole sticky before you purchase any products you will be glad you did.

Speed



Kales sound deadening 101


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale
Sound Deadening 101

I'm posting this in order to help first timers, and maybe clear up some of the fog around sound deadening in general.

First, I want to make clear the differences between damping material and sound barrier material.

A quick definition:

Damping material reduces vibration on panels where it is applied. A sound barrier material acts to reduce outside noise.

What is damping?

The main idea behind damping a panel is to reduce its tendency to vibrate. A panel may vibrate and create noise, or it may result in distortion of sound. ie: If the panel with the speaker installed vibrates.

How does it work?

How damping works is simple - The more mass a panel has, the less likely it is to vibrate. Also, this lowers the resonant frequency. The more mass, the better.

Why do it?

This can greatly reduce the possibility of a panel buzzing. Particularly, door panels. Also, if a car's body panel is over your exhaust system, it could be resonating and creating interior noise. The less of your car flexing and vibrating when your sound system is playing, the better. Midbass can be increased with door applications.

Where to do it?

There is one place it should always be done: The door panel. Particularly behind the speaker, and on the surface of the panel. Aside from that: Anywhere that resonates. Tap your panels fairly hard. If they go pong! then deaden them until they go thud. If you want to save weight and money, don't bother deadening panels that already go thud. A good example in the C5 is most of the center tunnel, and the floor under the seats. I personally like to deaden the thin plastic interior panels as well. Doing this in my door panel reduced some midbass distortion I was getting.

What materials are available?

Butyl
Butyl is the best possible material for damping sheets. It's easy to cut, easy to work with. Generally does not require a heat gun, or any special considerations to install it. Butyl is also very likely to stay stuck where you put it.

Vinyl
While better than Asphalt, Vinyl still is somewhat harder to work with than butyl.

Asphalt
Asphalt is the 'old' way to do it. It's messier, can sometimes have an odor, and very possibly may lose adhesion. I would suggest steering clear of any asphalt sheets.

Liquid
Liquid has been gaining popularity, and I use it myself as a base layer. You have the advantage of being able to vary the thickness according to the shape of the panel, and you won't waste any material trying to wrap it around corners, or get it in tight spaces. The disadvantage to liquid is the time it takes to fully cure. Most take 24 hours at room temperature. And up to a week if you are like me and can't wait for summer.

What are the costs?

Cost can vary tremendously. My suggestion is to go with the thickest, cheapest, butyl mat available at the time. Right now, I believe that is Edead from Elemental Designs. Aside from that, you can get the material as cheap as $1 a square foot, $5 a square foot, and even more if you buy brands like Dynamat.

What doesn't it do?

Damping does not do much to filter out outside noise, or road noise. If you are applying damper to simply reduce road noise, you are wasting your money. And this brings us to the next half of the thread:

Killing Sound with a sound barrier

What is a sound barrier?

A type of material designed to reduce or reflect the sound that passes through it. A reduction of sound transmission.


Why do it?

You are looking to reduce road noise, or outside noise entering the car. Foam can also be used to reduce rattles, when stuffed in a rattle prone panel.

Where to do it?

The factory is pretty smart when it comes to this. Look for where they have added foam, and back it up with more foam. This foam is useful just about anywhere, but I'd start with the floorboards, over the wheel wells, and the back walls. Behind the engine (interior of course) and lastly, doors. In my install, I attached foam to the back of all plastic trim panels.

What materials are available?

Closed Cell Neoprene Foam
Available in 1/8 or 1/4 from various sound deadening suppliers. This material is very easy to work with, stretches easily, and tears when you want it to. It's somewhat compressible. The greatest advantage is that it should not mold, which is a concern with open cell foam, especially in the doors. FWIW, most factory cars use open cell foam.

Frost King
I believe Frost King is an open cell foam, and it is foil backed, and self adhesive. It is fairly easy to work with, though much more difficult than the neoprene sheets because of the foil backing. It is slightly less than 1/8" thick, and much less dense than closed cell neoprene. Frost King offers much less sound insulation than the other foam, but the foil layer does help against heat.

Composite Materials
There are a few materials available, at a much higher cost, which are gneerally very thick and are built as such: Foam - Vinyl - Foam. Or Foam - Lead - Foam. These tend to be the heaviest as well, but also the most effective.

What are the costs?

Frost King is about $1/ft^3. Neoprene is anywhere from $1-5 on up depending on thickness. RAAM Audio is the least expensive, and I would highly suggest buying 1/8 foam because of its flexibility, and then doubling up in areas where you can.

What doesn't it do?

From my basic testing (Using various materials as a sound barrier VS a speaker in a box playing pink noise, measured with my RTA) this thickness of foam does not make a massive difference. Most of the sound reduction is at frequencies over 1k. So for road noise below 1k, don't expect a big difference. This should help with tire noise fairly well though. Also, foam does not dampen a panel, please use damping under the foam in places you need to.

Hope this helps.


Weak Points in the C5

Now that I've got my Ensolite install complete, I'd like to point out a few places that will give you a nice improvement with foam. - Attach foam to the back of the B pillar trim panels. There is no factory sound insulation here. Not a lot of sound gets through here, but its right on top of your ear. One layer of 1/8 did perfectly for me.

Behind the seats, on the back wall. Put in as much as you can.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by scott_fx : 02-23-2007 at 01:22 PM.

 

Thanks speed racer. I just wanted to make sure the convertible wasn't different.

 

edead is worthless because it doesn't have a foil layer.

Two things you want in a deadener:

1) Good quality butyl - Both for viscoelastic damping and adhesion.
2) Good, thick foil - This is extremely important. Absolutely vital. edead uses mylar. Useless. Might as well spit on the bare car surface and call it done.

The best are, mho in order,

Second Skin Damplifier Pro
Dynamat Extreme
Raamat (cheapest)<--- this is what I use.

So avoid anything that is asphalt based, and especially anything that does not have a nice foil layer.

My faq entry has a few things that need updating - I used to believe ED about them having foil on their dampener but now I know it isn't true.

Don't be concerned with square footage / dollar. 100 square feet of garbage will do you less good than 20 square feet of quality material.

 

Thanks for the first hand experience Kale. I'll look for some bulk packs of raam.

What about crazy cowboy's kit?

 

I used Frost King in some areas and Second Skin Damplifier Pro in others (for the reasons Kale stated earlier). It was on a Z (same as the vert) I think all models were the same square footage, if I remember correctly.

Speed

 

I used the kit because I wanted to save time and material. I think it was a good purchase. Then I added the SS where it was needed. Also have some closed cell foam to add later (which it could use). Most of the panels aren't too difficult to pull, so add what you think you need first; then you can add more later if you find some persnickety areas.

Speed

 

its a thin open cell foam with foil backing. should work well on heat, and do an ok job on sounds over 1.5khz or so. (most road noise is far below that, but it should help with the "screaming" sound tires make on concrete.)

i probably have one of the most extensively deadened cars on the board... The Corvette never really can be a quiet car, but it can be improved.

 

[BFGoodrich KDW2 Front:255/35/19 Rear:285/30/20] on there. My install date is March 8th for this stuff so i'm trying to decide and order what I can so not to pay 5/sq ft for dynamat.

Even though I have an audio supplier that i got my equiptment from that can get me dynamat extreme for about 2.50/sq ft.

Seems to be a decent deal.

 

heres the fatmat specs, is it worthless?

50 Mil Thick 1 Mil PSA(Pressure Sensitive Adhesive)

Performance & Specifications

Appearance:
Black butyl based rubber solid with a 3 mil highly reflective polished aluminum constrain layer, wax paper release liner

Application Temp (Best performance):
60°F to+110°F (+15.5 to +43.3)


Temperature Range (Resistance):
-65°F to +300°F (-54°C to +149°C)


Chemical Resistance (Corrosion):
Resistant to water, mineral oils and salt


Peel Adhesion: (90° peel made @ 300 mm/min)
· OCRS 11.0pli
· Galvanneal 8.5pli
· Galvanized 8.8pli
· E-Coat 12.5pli
· BC/CC 10.0pli


Federal Standards Tests: Flammability
FMVSS 302-PASS


Handling and Application:
Gain best result if stored at room temperature

FatMat® Foil Damper (FFD) is a light weight composite consisting of a very thin viscoelastic damping compound on an aluminum foil which is bonded onto substrates that are vibrating close to their natural frequency. This constrained layer damping composite offers very high damping over a broad temperature range while adding minimal weight to the existing structure.

FatMat has a PSA (Pressure Sensitive Adhesive) and Peel and release paper with a sticky adhesive making it ideal for automotive and many other applications...

 

butyl based? I wonder what that means. It doesn't look terrible, but I wonder if there is a reason I dont really see it used in audio circles around the net.

*according to the SDS site, Fatmat fails early in the temperature tests.

180f is where it becomes weak.

by comparison, raamat becomes weak at 240f, and Dynamat extreme at 500... and Second Skin is still strong at 500.


based on that, I'd go for Raamat on a budget, or Dynamat/Second Skin otherwise.

 

fatmat dot com is where i got the info. just looking to quiet my duramax truck down some.

 

I would get second skin's luxury liner and put it on the (interior side) of the firewall. Should quiet that truck down considerably.

 

I am currently doing a full insulation on my car. I did a lot of research and came to the conclusion that Second Skin would be my best option. So far, the product is really great. Here is my writeup,it's a C6 but you can get some ideas. BTW...You will want to get a lot more material.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1950614

 

This may be a little too hack-job for a Corvette forum, but one of the cheapest and still reasonably effective sound deadeners out there is Peel & Seal, sold in the Lowes roofing department. It's asphault based, but I've used it as a sound deadener in quite a few places, including heating duct grilles, and it works.

 

Please don't do that.

This is a mass loader, and is significantly less effective at damping than a good quality foil backed butyl. For the money, its a heavier and more expensive solution for the same result. Also, it melts off of stuff.

In other words, for the same result, peel & seal will be messier, heavier, and actually cost you more. Again, don't get caught up in square footage. I'd rather dampen 25% of the middle of a panel with dynamat extreme than the whole thing with peel & seal...

 

It's foil backed too, for the record. I wouldn't try covering the entire inside of a Corvette with it - most of the times I've used it weren't even in automotive applications, and the times I have used it on a car were usually only a couple square inches to quiet down a specific part that was noisy.

Like I said, a little too much of a hack job to use on a Corvette. It's got its uses, though. Some people have claimed that it actually outperforms a few of the more disreputable brands of sound deadener.

 

To address the first question: I would suggest 144 sq feet of Dynamat Xtreme. This would allow for the whole interior and the door panels, both outside and inside door panels. Maybe use extra behind the seats between you and the road.

And Dynamat Xtreme is not all you you need; Consider dynamat Dynapad or the Second Skin Luxury liner on top of the dynamat.

Dynamat Xtreme is pure butll and the original Dynamat is asphalt based.

It is definately worth doing for the sound system as well as the growing importance of hands free phone laws. (Can't use a blue tooth hands free device stock, much too loud.)

If you are trying to lower weight consider it will be 100-250 lbs to do a decent job with soundproofing.

For those shaking in their boots about weight: I have an ordinary performace car (stock) but with an outstanding sound system it is a much, much better experience driving the car. In my opinion it is a good idea to invest in the sound system and enjoy the car. Obviously not for a race/track car but for a regular driving car. (I do admit many others are in this for top speed at the track and that is a different situation altogether.) For a very cool daily ride or weekend ride the sound systen is something to work on.