definite downer today
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles Ca
definite downer today
So i finally had the motivation to work on my car. the behringer was just a pain in the butt to hook up so in my troubleshooting i bypassed it by using a little usb headphone dac/amp and running that into my phaze x-over. totally untuned it sounded pretty decent after i tweaked the gains a bit. i didn't want to drain the battery so i started the car and realized... i will never hear the subtle nuances all this expensive equipment is producing!!!! I tore out the behringer, mounted the old tube x-over and i'm ordering a relatively inexpensive yet decent quality dac and i'm calling it a day. I'll do all the eq'ing on the computer and finally start enjoying the car again.
I don't know, but if you guys have performance mods like cams heads and/or headers/exhaust like i do... i wouldn't waste the money on getting the best equipment.
i just picked up a montero and am contemplating ripping out the seas woofer's in the vette and replacing them with dayton's.
car audio sucks! (but it's fun too... ugh)
anyone else feel this way?
I don't know, but if you guys have performance mods like cams heads and/or headers/exhaust like i do... i wouldn't waste the money on getting the best equipment.
i just picked up a montero and am contemplating ripping out the seas woofer's in the vette and replacing them with dayton's.
car audio sucks! (but it's fun too... ugh)
anyone else feel this way?
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
Absolutely, and I'm stock aside from Corsa Titanium exhaust.
The whole car is done in liquid damping, the entire rear in 1-2 layers of raamat, plus ensolite, plus luxury liner. BOTH sides of the rear tub, by the way -where I could get to it - has raamaat.
I just tore out all the ****ty edead from the front of my car and replaced with secondskin damplifier pro.
And the car is still loud. A corvette simply can't be quieted down enough, and the stereo can either only be enjoyed at harmful levels, or with the car turned off, sitting in the driveway.
If I had heard the results before spending hundreds upon hundreds and many, many hours sound deadening... I probably wouldn't have bothered.
The whole car is done in liquid damping, the entire rear in 1-2 layers of raamat, plus ensolite, plus luxury liner. BOTH sides of the rear tub, by the way -where I could get to it - has raamaat.
I just tore out all the ****ty edead from the front of my car and replaced with secondskin damplifier pro.
And the car is still loud. A corvette simply can't be quieted down enough, and the stereo can either only be enjoyed at harmful levels, or with the car turned off, sitting in the driveway.
If I had heard the results before spending hundreds upon hundreds and many, many hours sound deadening... I probably wouldn't have bothered.
Last edited by Kale; Aug 4, 2008 at 10:24 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,289
Likes: 16
From: Skippack PA
St Jude Donor '13
Saw your comment in YO-EL's thread regarding "all" SQ going out the window and I flat-out disagree. I can understand to some extent yours and Kales points, but I think you're both taking things to extremes. Extending your logic means it's a waste of time cranking up tunes while you're heading down the road and that's just nonsense.
I just put a full Z06 exhaust setup, including LG Headers, on my C6 vert and it obviously has ratcheted up the exhaust volume (in the "wild" position it's just glorious!) but it doesn't reduce my enjoyment of my audio system one bit.
If it sounds like *** with the motor off it's gonna sound like *** with it on and vice-versa. I will agree with you to the extent that diminishing returns kicks in at a much lower level than it does with home audio, but the real reason YOU can't hear a difference between the Seas and Dayton is because of your experience with the setup and the tuning of your car. Dropping $3000 Utopia Be's in your system? Crazy. Using a $100 Seas midbass instead of a $30 Dayton midbass however is completely in the ear of the beholder. If the Seas sounds a bit smoother, a little more defined to your ear then I don't think it's wasted money at all.
As always, YMMV and what sounds good and is "worth it" to each person varies as well!
I just put a full Z06 exhaust setup, including LG Headers, on my C6 vert and it obviously has ratcheted up the exhaust volume (in the "wild" position it's just glorious!) but it doesn't reduce my enjoyment of my audio system one bit.
If it sounds like *** with the motor off it's gonna sound like *** with it on and vice-versa. I will agree with you to the extent that diminishing returns kicks in at a much lower level than it does with home audio, but the real reason YOU can't hear a difference between the Seas and Dayton is because of your experience with the setup and the tuning of your car. Dropping $3000 Utopia Be's in your system? Crazy. Using a $100 Seas midbass instead of a $30 Dayton midbass however is completely in the ear of the beholder. If the Seas sounds a bit smoother, a little more defined to your ear then I don't think it's wasted money at all.
As always, YMMV and what sounds good and is "worth it" to each person varies as well!
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
I think the point is more that tweaking for the little details, the, i hate the term - atmosphere - is pointless because noise destroys it.
Of course, I think that just buying expensive speakers and throwing them in the doors, tweeters and all, is the biggest car audio waste there is - even more than the detail vs car noise factor.
It becomes even more of a waste when people start switching gear out for "better gear" when its their install that lacks. Imagine if bad stereo install was as blatantly obvious to people as bad performance parts install. It would be like cramming a camshaft into the tailpipe of a car, not getting the results, and changing it out for a different camshaft to cram in the tailpipe...
Of course, I think that just buying expensive speakers and throwing them in the doors, tweeters and all, is the biggest car audio waste there is - even more than the detail vs car noise factor.
It becomes even more of a waste when people start switching gear out for "better gear" when its their install that lacks. Imagine if bad stereo install was as blatantly obvious to people as bad performance parts install. It would be like cramming a camshaft into the tailpipe of a car, not getting the results, and changing it out for a different camshaft to cram in the tailpipe...
Last edited by Kale; Aug 4, 2008 at 10:57 AM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles Ca
Saw your comment in YO-EL's thread regarding "all" SQ going out the window and I flat-out disagree. I can understand to some extent yours and Kales points, but I think you're both taking things to extremes. Extending your logic means it's a waste of time cranking up tunes while you're heading down the road and that's just nonsense.
I just put a full Z06 exhaust setup, including LG Headers, on my C6 vert and it obviously has ratcheted up the exhaust volume (in the "wild" position it's just glorious!) but it doesn't reduce my enjoyment of my audio system one bit.
If it sounds like *** with the motor off it's gonna sound like *** with it on and vice-versa. I will agree with you to the extent that diminishing returns kicks in at a much lower level than it does with home audio, but the real reason YOU can't hear a difference between the Seas and Dayton is because of your experience with the setup and the tuning of your car. Dropping $3000 Utopia Be's in your system? Crazy. Using a $100 Seas midbass instead of a $30 Dayton midbass however is completely in the ear of the beholder. If the Seas sounds a bit smoother, a little more defined to your ear then I don't think it's wasted money at all.
As always, YMMV and what sounds good and is "worth it" to each person varies as well!
I just put a full Z06 exhaust setup, including LG Headers, on my C6 vert and it obviously has ratcheted up the exhaust volume (in the "wild" position it's just glorious!) but it doesn't reduce my enjoyment of my audio system one bit.
If it sounds like *** with the motor off it's gonna sound like *** with it on and vice-versa. I will agree with you to the extent that diminishing returns kicks in at a much lower level than it does with home audio, but the real reason YOU can't hear a difference between the Seas and Dayton is because of your experience with the setup and the tuning of your car. Dropping $3000 Utopia Be's in your system? Crazy. Using a $100 Seas midbass instead of a $30 Dayton midbass however is completely in the ear of the beholder. If the Seas sounds a bit smoother, a little more defined to your ear then I don't think it's wasted money at all.
As always, YMMV and what sounds good and is "worth it" to each person varies as well!
I think the point is more that tweaking for the little details, the, i hate the term - atmosphere - is pointless because noise destroys it.
Of course, I think that just buying expensive speakers and throwing them in the doors, tweeters and all, is the biggest car audio waste there is - even more than the detail vs car noise factor.
It becomes even more of a waste when people start switching gear out for "better gear" when its their install that lacks. Imagine if bad stereo install was as blatantly obvious to people as bad performance parts install. It would be like cramming a camshaft into the tailpipe of a car, not getting the results, and changing it out for a different camshaft to cram in the tailpipe...
Of course, I think that just buying expensive speakers and throwing them in the doors, tweeters and all, is the biggest car audio waste there is - even more than the detail vs car noise factor.
It becomes even more of a waste when people start switching gear out for "better gear" when its their install that lacks. Imagine if bad stereo install was as blatantly obvious to people as bad performance parts install. It would be like cramming a camshaft into the tailpipe of a car, not getting the results, and changing it out for a different camshaft to cram in the tailpipe...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,289
Likes: 16
From: Skippack PA
St Jude Donor '13
i probably was over generalizing it. maybe i'll go and edit what i said. but there is something to be said about the point of diminishing returns in a car's environment. If i had to do it again i'd probably have just kept my xtant amp, upgrade the speakers, deaden key parts of the door and focus on installation and tuning. I'm not saying i wouldn't be able to hear the difference, but when i'm driving down the road with the top down, would i really appreciate the difference? I don't know. Again, these impressions were just raw out of the box hook it up and audition. i haven't eq'd anything yet and the x-over points are rough. I'm not saying it won't sound good... but my system would be better suited for a lexas or caddy :-)
I suspected that was your line of reasoning and I agree with that completely. Choosing APPROPRIATE equipment is a big part of the equation, and that is a combination of budget, preference and experience. I just felt like I should toss in a reply so that those with less experience don't just see "it's not worth upgrading" even though I knew that wasn't your point.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles Ca
I suspected that was your line of reasoning and I agree with that completely. Choosing APPROPRIATE equipment is a big part of the equation, and that is a combination of budget, preference and experience. I just felt like I should toss in a reply so that those with less experience don't just see "it's not worth upgrading" even though I knew that wasn't your point.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,484
Likes: 27
From: Torrance Calif
There isn't anything wrong with modding or upgrading .
I don't see the point of making a car an "audio shrine", but to each his own.
After hearing some of the extreme air pumpers out there, I am surprised the owners can hear anything, let alone the music.
I guess they can "feel it" though.
I don't see the point of making a car an "audio shrine", but to each his own.
After hearing some of the extreme air pumpers out there, I am surprised the owners can hear anything, let alone the music.
I guess they can "feel it" though.
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Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
There isn't anything wrong with modding or upgrading .
I don't see the point of making a car an "audio shrine", but to each his own.
After hearing some of the extreme air pumpers out there, I am surprised the owners can hear anything, let alone the music.
I guess they can "feel it" though.
I don't see the point of making a car an "audio shrine", but to each his own.
After hearing some of the extreme air pumpers out there, I am surprised the owners can hear anything, let alone the music.
I guess they can "feel it" though.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area CA
I have slowly gone from all out SQ installs to what I would consider basic (but very good) installs to rolling with stock atm in the 06 2500hd. Diesels make a whole different sound heh. I am sure I will do something eventually, but the crew cab/sub scenario is kind of discouraging atm.
I still love accurate and clean car audio, and always will, but I came to the realization that you can only do so much with a car and its environment that the diminishing returns rear their ugly head sooner than later, especially if you are not showing/competing and actually trying to drive the car while enjoying the music. No amount of deadener and install can fix an unbalanced, very loud, and extremely reflective environment.
I am turning my focus towards home audio stuff, and have a set of keys to a new house waiting for me in 3 weeks. Can't wait to get the new IB sub install rolling. After that a new set of front towers with some Scan Revs are calling my name.
Fej
I still love accurate and clean car audio, and always will, but I came to the realization that you can only do so much with a car and its environment that the diminishing returns rear their ugly head sooner than later, especially if you are not showing/competing and actually trying to drive the car while enjoying the music. No amount of deadener and install can fix an unbalanced, very loud, and extremely reflective environment.
I am turning my focus towards home audio stuff, and have a set of keys to a new house waiting for me in 3 weeks. Can't wait to get the new IB sub install rolling.
After that a new set of front towers with some Scan Revs are calling my name.Fej
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles Ca
awesome! congrads on the new house!!! and you're going to absolutely love the IB subs! They are the biggest draw at my place right now, largely to the fact that everyone says "they're in there???"
what setup are you going with?
what setup are you going with?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,289
Likes: 16
From: Skippack PA
St Jude Donor '13
congrats on the new place fej!Look forward to hearing about hte new home seutp.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Likes: 2
From: Lucas, Texas
I was wondering about this very topic the other day. I finally collected all my gear for the sound/Carputer install. I decided to have it done by someone that knows more about this than I do. On my way back home, I wondered just how "quite" they could get the Z with a cam and headers and a noisy twin disc clutch. I suspected all along this would be the issue. Oh well, it will sound good and be fast. My home system may sound better, but I can't pull Gs and do over a 100 in my home 
Jay
Jay
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area CA
Thanks guys
I plan on doing a 4 15" IB setup in a manifold in the crawl space beneath the house. It is going to be a bit snug space wise and I might have to move a little dirt to make it happen, but I will get something done in there. The room in question has a small cathedral style ceiling with no real space above it.
I plan on running an EP 2500 to the subs with a behringer 2496 to handle crossover/eq duties to get the sub dialed in. My receiver is pretty flexible with crossovers and eq ability, and I usually let the built in eq program get the system close in the room and then I fine tune it a little bit.
I plan on doing some 7" Scan Revs with the 6600 AirCirc tweet tuned to about 40hz for the new front towers. Basically going to build these from Zaph http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZRT.html
I may end up building the sealed version in a "traditional" sized tower format as I really don't need the towers playing below about 70hz max.
I plan on modding a set of towers that I have currently with a new front baffle and some additional bracing. They have a great piano black finish on them with "decent" drivers in them now and it just so happens to be almost the exact right size for the ZRT I will take a shot at finishing the baffle to match, and if it turns out like crap I will throw a grill on them and call it good heh.
Fej
I plan on doing a 4 15" IB setup in a manifold in the crawl space beneath the house. It is going to be a bit snug space wise and I might have to move a little dirt to make it happen, but I will get something done in there. The room in question has a small cathedral style ceiling with no real space above it.
I plan on running an EP 2500 to the subs with a behringer 2496 to handle crossover/eq duties to get the sub dialed in. My receiver is pretty flexible with crossovers and eq ability, and I usually let the built in eq program get the system close in the room and then I fine tune it a little bit.
I plan on doing some 7" Scan Revs with the 6600 AirCirc tweet tuned to about 40hz for the new front towers. Basically going to build these from Zaph http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZRT.html
I may end up building the sealed version in a "traditional" sized tower format as I really don't need the towers playing below about 70hz max.
I plan on modding a set of towers that I have currently with a new front baffle and some additional bracing. They have a great piano black finish on them with "decent" drivers in them now and it just so happens to be almost the exact right size for the ZRT
I will take a shot at finishing the baffle to match, and if it turns out like crap I will throw a grill on them and call it good heh.Fej