Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 218
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From: Plano Texas
Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice
Well my stock HU will no longer play CDs and Im going nuts listening to the radio, so I have called around a bit and need some advice on what I have heard.
First off I am considering using Car Toys in Frisco or McKinney Texas. Anyone have any experience with this store or chain?
Second I have been looking at the Pioneer deck that plays MP3s, when I called today they said something about I need a wire converter which was around $59 and then they wanted to wire something to the starter or ignition I cannot remember which. This they wanted to charge $100 for, then a face plate for the unit to fit in the slot correctly.
Is the price on the converter sound right? And will I have problems down the road with this type of install? Would I be better off just having everything re-wired and new speakers installed? (if so I obviously will have to wait cause that will be more expensive)
What is the deal with wiring to the ignition wire or whatever does that sound right or just padding the bill??
Any help would be greatly appreciated...
First off I am considering using Car Toys in Frisco or McKinney Texas. Anyone have any experience with this store or chain?
Second I have been looking at the Pioneer deck that plays MP3s, when I called today they said something about I need a wire converter which was around $59 and then they wanted to wire something to the starter or ignition I cannot remember which. This they wanted to charge $100 for, then a face plate for the unit to fit in the slot correctly.
Is the price on the converter sound right? And will I have problems down the road with this type of install? Would I be better off just having everything re-wired and new speakers installed? (if so I obviously will have to wait cause that will be more expensive)
What is the deal with wiring to the ignition wire or whatever does that sound right or just padding the bill??
Any help would be greatly appreciated...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,302
Likes: 2
From: Atlanta GA
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (tkemory)
I have no idea what they are talking about regarding wiring it to the starter. Of course, I'm not familiar w/ C5s, so it may be some kind of anti-theft device or some screwy way the stock HU is wired to the factory alarm.
Personally, I would save up some money and replace everything. You won't know why you didn't do it before.
Factory (ANY factory system) = :U
Personally, I would save up some money and replace everything. You won't know why you didn't do it before.
Factory (ANY factory system) = :U
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 5
From: Satellite Beach, FL, USA
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (tkemory)
The stock HU is controlled via a data bus by the PCM and BCM. It does not have the "normal" signals, switched power, illumination ..etc that a non-computer controlled HU would have. I would not let anyone work on a C5 stero who has not done a number of them before.
For now, your best bet is to buy a used CD HU in the used section. They are pretty cheap.
For now, your best bet is to buy a used CD HU in the used section. They are pretty cheap.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 218
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From: Plano Texas
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (99HT)
So by installing a Pioneer deck I could cause codes on my onboard computer?
Has anyone else had this problem?
I surely dont want to spend $300+ on the same crapy factory HU that is giving me this trouble in the first place. Of course it would have to go out 2 months after warranty runs out.
If I am going to spend the money I prefer to get something more current in technology. right now I am looking at the Pioneer DEHP740M HU, which can play MP3s, that would be like 70+ songs on one CD (who needs a changer?).
What type of problems should I expect if the HU isnt compliant, and is there a time frame or could it be one of those maybe or never issues.
Has anyone else had this problem?
I surely dont want to spend $300+ on the same crapy factory HU that is giving me this trouble in the first place. Of course it would have to go out 2 months after warranty runs out.
If I am going to spend the money I prefer to get something more current in technology. right now I am looking at the Pioneer DEHP740M HU, which can play MP3s, that would be like 70+ songs on one CD (who needs a changer?).
What type of problems should I expect if the HU isnt compliant, and is there a time frame or could it be one of those maybe or never issues.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 5
From: Satellite Beach, FL, USA
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (tkemory)
I did not mean to imply you will have any problems with codes, I meant you will need to be creative in supplying power, switched power and illumination signals to your new HU. You will also need to supply power to the diversity antenna system if you have a coupe. It also helps to have a service manual or a copy of the Bose system schematics to figure out how the present system is put together.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,726
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From: Joplin MO
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (99HT)
You will also need to supply power to the diversity antenna system if you have a coupe. It also helps to have a service manual or a copy of the Bose system schematics to figure out how the present system is put together.
Could you elaborate on this statement a little more. I am getting ready to change out my in-dash and would like to know what you are referring to here.
Thanks. :cheers:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 5
From: Satellite Beach, FL, USA
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (mrkln)
You must send power to the diversity antenna system buffer amp and choose which antenna you want perminately selected, front or rear. The Bose HU sends a power on (Radio ON) and diversity (ARS) signals to the coupe antenna system. The signals are just +batt. You need to get a copy of the stereo wiring diagram to confirm the color codes. I don't have my manual handy right now. Do a search on my posting about the Bose system. Some of the info is in it.
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 218
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From: Plano Texas
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (99HT)
I was told there is a wiring harness that you can use when you install the HU, supposedly this allows you to not have to worry about cutting the factory wires. I was curious if this also took care of the issue of the power being supplied to the HU.
The reason why I am a bit confused is the installer mentioned running a wire to the ignition wire or something and I couldnt figure out why. The comments made by 99HT has helped informed me, Im going to talk to an installer today and force them to explain in more detail why they want to run the wire or anything else they plan to do.
Supposedly they have done other Corvettes C5's and have experience but you know how salespeople can be, they will say anything and screw up later ;P
The reason why I am a bit confused is the installer mentioned running a wire to the ignition wire or something and I couldnt figure out why. The comments made by 99HT has helped informed me, Im going to talk to an installer today and force them to explain in more detail why they want to run the wire or anything else they plan to do.
Supposedly they have done other Corvettes C5's and have experience but you know how salespeople can be, they will say anything and screw up later ;P
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 218
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From: Plano Texas
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (tkemory)
Well after talking with several installers I have heard the same story pretty much. They want to replace the speakers and or the wiring because of the wiring scheme.
So not as simple as just adding the deck and strapping on a wiring harness it appears.
So not as simple as just adding the deck and strapping on a wiring harness it appears.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,726
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From: Joplin MO
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (99HT)
You must send power to the diversity antenna system buffer amp and choose which antenna you want perminately selected, front or rear.
Thanks again.:cheers:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 5
From: Satellite Beach, FL, USA
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (tkemory)
Now I get it. You can buy a standard "pigtail" for GM vehichles that will allow one to add a new HU without cutting into the harness. The pigtail plugs into the harness connector. This is true for a simple GM stereo, but not totally true for the C5. You really need to see a wiring diagram of the C5 Bose system to get the full story of the complexity. First off, the C5 HU has three connectors plus antenna on the rear panel, not just one. The other two connectors feed the Bose Signal Processor (BSP).
If you try to replace ONLY the HU in a C5, you will have some wiring trouble interfacing to the BSP which will end up ONLY driving the sub amps and you will end up having to send full spectrum signals to the Bose Twiddlers. The BSP will need to be fed by "mid" level pre-amp signals from the new HU. Your new HU may not supply enough drive out of it's pre-amp outputs to drive the sub amps, via the BSP, to the "correct" level. The rear Bose Twiddler can handle full spectrum signals, albeit with higher distortion, but the tiny front Twiddler speakers should not be sent full spectrum signals.
Read my post on the subject for more info.
If you try to replace ONLY the HU in a C5, you will have some wiring trouble interfacing to the BSP which will end up ONLY driving the sub amps and you will end up having to send full spectrum signals to the Bose Twiddlers. The BSP will need to be fed by "mid" level pre-amp signals from the new HU. Your new HU may not supply enough drive out of it's pre-amp outputs to drive the sub amps, via the BSP, to the "correct" level. The rear Bose Twiddler can handle full spectrum signals, albeit with higher distortion, but the tiny front Twiddler speakers should not be sent full spectrum signals.
Read my post on the subject for more info.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 218
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From: Plano Texas
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (99HT)
99HT,
Your post makes alot of sense, I wish the installers would explain it like that so it doesnt look like they are just making stuff up as they go along.
I think what I may do is contact a local delco shop and do either a swap on a refurb or get my HU fixed and wait a bit until I learn a bit more about modifying my system. Unfortunately Im a software developer and know little to nothing about stereo systems. Although Im trying to change that as you can see :)
Once again thanks for taking the time to help us slow ones :crazy:
Your post makes alot of sense, I wish the installers would explain it like that so it doesnt look like they are just making stuff up as they go along.
I think what I may do is contact a local delco shop and do either a swap on a refurb or get my HU fixed and wait a bit until I learn a bit more about modifying my system. Unfortunately Im a software developer and know little to nothing about stereo systems. Although Im trying to change that as you can see :)
Once again thanks for taking the time to help us slow ones :crazy:
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,726
Likes: 0
From: Joplin MO
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (99HT)
99HT,
Thanks for your help so far. I am gutting the Bose system and starting from scratch. I have a Sony minidisc headunit, Kicker amps, Focal 165K2 components, and a 12" IDMAX waiting for install. It is just going to take some time building the box and then wiring it all up.
Thanks again.
Thanks for your help so far. I am gutting the Bose system and starting from scratch. I have a Sony minidisc headunit, Kicker amps, Focal 165K2 components, and a 12" IDMAX waiting for install. It is just going to take some time building the box and then wiring it all up.
Thanks again.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 5
From: Satellite Beach, FL, USA
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (tkemory)
You can buy used CD HU's on the forum for $100 to $250. Don't even bother getting yours repaired, the replacement CD module is quite expensive.
If you get a new unit, you can donate your old one to me to use for testing.
If you get a new unit, you can donate your old one to me to use for testing.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
From: Plano Texas
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (99HT)
99HT,
I will look into getting one on the forum, if I do find one I will send you my old one for testing. Basically it has something wrong with the laser I believe, skips on CDs past the first few tracks.
I almost forgot, the original owner had a changer installed (factory) and decided when his new wife made him give up the car to pull it. So I have mounting brackets and a wire dangling in the trunk where I can install a Changer.
Is it possible for me to install one with some sort of converter that will work with the stock HU? Then i could add maybe sub and amp later.
Im bummed that there is nowhere to install an audio input somewhere, like an mp3 jukebox or something.
[Modified by tkemory, 3:45 AM 3/3/2002]
I will look into getting one on the forum, if I do find one I will send you my old one for testing. Basically it has something wrong with the laser I believe, skips on CDs past the first few tracks.
I almost forgot, the original owner had a changer installed (factory) and decided when his new wife made him give up the car to pull it. So I have mounting brackets and a wire dangling in the trunk where I can install a Changer.
Is it possible for me to install one with some sort of converter that will work with the stock HU? Then i could add maybe sub and amp later.
Im bummed that there is nowhere to install an audio input somewhere, like an mp3 jukebox or something.
[Modified by tkemory, 3:45 AM 3/3/2002]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 5
From: Satellite Beach, FL, USA
Re: Replacing HU Possibly, Need advice (tkemory)
Unfortunately at this point in time, the only way to add external audio inputs, is to open up your HU and do some surgery on the motherboard, adding a switching system.
The CD changer or AUX inputs cannot be enabled without a CD changer connected to the HU. The HU expects a data stream continously sent to it from the changer. I am working on a "black box" to fake the HU into switching to the AUX inputs, but I need more technical info on the E&C data bus.
You can easily add a CD changer to your car. You can buy one off ebay or new, just make sure you get the correct model. A sleezy, but cheaper way to add a CD changer to your car is to buy a used Rockford Fosgate RFX-8601 6 disc CD changer. It has the same data bus as the stock CD changer. I bought one for $50 off ebay. The only problem with the RFX-8601 is that you would have to splice it's cable into the existing cable and use it's bracket. Not too desirable for most people.
The CD changer or AUX inputs cannot be enabled without a CD changer connected to the HU. The HU expects a data stream continously sent to it from the changer. I am working on a "black box" to fake the HU into switching to the AUX inputs, but I need more technical info on the E&C data bus.
You can easily add a CD changer to your car. You can buy one off ebay or new, just make sure you get the correct model. A sleezy, but cheaper way to add a CD changer to your car is to buy a used Rockford Fosgate RFX-8601 6 disc CD changer. It has the same data bus as the stock CD changer. I bought one for $50 off ebay. The only problem with the RFX-8601 is that you would have to splice it's cable into the existing cable and use it's bracket. Not too desirable for most people.
