I have a C6 convertible which came with the Bose system. It sounded like mud.

I went to a local exotic car stereo place and they installed Focal VR 165 speakers in the doors and disconnected the center speaker and added a ELF Mini amp. The system cost me about $1400 and I hate it.

It sounds like I'm missing the bottom third of all my music, like there's hardly any base. Everything is what I would call shrill.

I've lived with it for more than a year, but now I can't stand it anymore and I am going to go to a different place and start over.

RAAMAudio if you're reading this what do you recommend that I buy for the doors that will give me good loud performance and cover the full audio range?

Thanks

 

If you are not happy with it why not take it back?
1400 is a lot of green.

 

Focal VR 165 speaker are decent. What are you using for a subwoofer?

 

I'm guessing he doesn't have one

Add a sub in the trunk, then see how it sounds

 

problem is u need a sub, and they may have picked a crap place to splice in ur amp

sounds like they way overcharged you, god only knows if they used speaker plates

 

OK, thanks for the input.

I read the Focal owners manual this morning and I see that the tweeter and midrange can be adjusted to some degree. I'm going to go back to the installer like Mr. Bill said, and have them try to tweak the settings. If I try to do it myself I'll screw it up.

Here's what the manual says: "Remember too much treble and your system may sound aggressive, thus suffer a loss of dynamics, resulting in poor definition". You guys probably understand what that means, but I don't. Does it sound like another way of saying what I already said, that the system sounds shrill and lacks bass?

I read in the manual that the frequency range is 70hz-28khz. I know that isn't subwoofer territory, but it sounds to me like there should be reasonable bass and that the lower range should be clear and distinct.

As I recall when the installer was doing the job he asked if I wanted sound deadener in the doors and I think I said I couldn't afford it, but I'm willing to do that now if it would help. What do you think?

I guess it's better to give the original installer the chance to improve the system before I just yank it out and start over.

As for the sub in the trunk, has anyone here actually done that to their car? I'd like a first hand opinion of that before I go that way and add more expense. It just seems to me that a subwoofer in the trunk isn't going to produce clear sound in the cockpit because there are so many sound deadening obstructions in the way. When the top is down, which is almost always, there is all that padded fabric almost closing off the trunk area, and on top of that there is the dividing wall that holds the small factory rear speakers. It seems that before there was enough base to get through all that, there would be a lot of vibration. It's likely that if I went that route I would pull out the rear speakers and leave the grills in place, and that would let the sub get into the cockpit.

As an alternative, has anyone ever put a speaker in the waterfall? There's a little space behind that where a speaker might fit. Even if it wasn't a sub, it might be able to give some benefit because it's right there between the seats and close to my ear. That might be a good idea if there was a good speaker that would fit.

Thanks for your help, because I just don't have the knowledge and experience that you pro's and semi-pro's have.

Somehow I'm going to get some good sound!

 

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/audi...waterfall.html

This thread will answer some of your sub questions.

 

It's a six inch speaker pair being asked to overcome road noise at low frequencies and ALSO play up through the midrange. If you park it in a quiet place and listen, what you can expect is that the frequencies, roughly, 80-200 will be just as loud as the rest of the system.

Also factor in human perception. Play a tweeter at 90db, and it sounds fairly loud. Play midbass at 90db at the same time, and it sounds relatively quieter.

Sound deadening isn't going to fix this problem. You need a subwoofer.

 

Sub woofer or at least a bigger midbass in the doors that will play much lower and louder. I have been working on such an idea and have achieved some decent bass, not quite enough for those of us really liking our bass but pretty decent.

Problem, it introduces a great deal of resonance issues that are hard to overcome, I deadened my doors very very well, added aluminum channel bracing, etc, and have door panels issues that just are not fun to deal with. I did my normal+++work to them and still issues.

I know I can make them better but I am doing this to build systems to sell, nobody is going to want to go through this so I had to stop and start looking at subs again.

I can put one in the waterfall area, probably a single 8 though a 10 is much better, just do not thing one is an option there but have not done much to that yet. It is hard to work on the interior right now due to going in for knee surgeries soon so I am working on the underside of the car up on my lift for now(fully heat and sound deadened under there now as well as headers, exhaust, etc.....

The waterfall sub would take some serious work to design and then require a custom modified latch setup, hopefully not to hard just cut and weld, etc so I could make them here pretty easily at first. I used to build everything I design, now I get it all sorted out then hire it out to good builders as just to busy to do it all and I like spending time with my beautiful new wife!

You need deadening in the doors and in the rear, these are loud cars, if you rode in mine with just the doors and rear done well it would shock you how much quieter it is and that alone makes the audio much better.

I have not heard any Focals for years but they were well known for very harsh tweeters unless very carefully positioned and tuned which it seemed most shops just do not know how to do no matter how High End they are(hardly any deaden properly either, you want it deadened you need to read my HOW TO guide, huge improvement over what nearly everyone does, developed from 40+ years experience and input from many of the top all time installers and DIY audio champions ever.)

I do have a set of Alumalite baffles, covered in Ensolite, super low weight and non resonate, filled with 9" Morels (big surround, they should be called an 8') with some full size Seas tweeters above them, custom modified amp to run them fully active. I am going to sell soon if anybody is interested. They sound quite good and have decent bass for what they are, much better than any 6.5 will do by far and as long as not cranking them up really loud the doors are ok if they are deadening well.

If somebody wanted a drop in, close to plug and play solution, they would be a nice way to go.

When I have my systems fully developed they will include speakers, amps, wiring, deadening, baffles, enclosures and for the C6 doors, panels to fill in that great big access hole which will help a great deal in road noise and a tighter midbass response. These systems are not going to be horribly espensive and designed to install at home or your local trusted shop(good luck on that, not many out there, sadly)

Back on topic, sorry

You need something like the above for a minimal effort at some bass and sound deadening properly done.

Or a true dedicated subwoofer which is going to be better, if properly done as well of course.

I will look into that Elf mini amp. I only like one mini amp I have heard so far, the Arc Audio which is class G, not D. I do know of a new design D I am going to test as well as the Arc Audio newer ones but so far the amp of choice for me is Arc Audio, I have them here for 4 of my systems as they all need little but great amps

Hope this helps a bit.

Rick

 

You already spent $1400, don't waste it. Keep what you currently have and just add the bass that you desire. That can easily be done by adding a sub in the trunk.

The speakers you're using have an adjustable crossover, it's possible the tweeters are just set on max +, which could easily explain what you call 'shrill'.

 

Thanks RAAMaudio.

That's a lot for a know-nothing like me to digest! I think the suggestion is to deaden the doors and the rear and and to do the dedicated subwoofer, as the others here suggested. OK.

I called a different shop than the one I used, this one's generally considered the best in South Florida. I didn't go to them in the first place because it's a 100 mile round trip. We talked about putting a sub in the trunk and the plusses and minusses of that and they were pretty clear that using the JL Stealthboxes in the cubbies behind the seats, and adding a 500 watt amp to drive them, would give me the bottom end I'm missing and that I should go that way.

I have read here that they don't produce the really loud thump that a big sub would, and since I've never heard the Stealthboxes I'm not sure whether to pull the trigger or not. I don't think I need the kind of sound that rattles the windows in the cars around me. I just want, bottom line, to be able to clearly hear the full audio range when cruising at 65 MPH with the roof down. I hear the upper end at that speed from the Focals, but that's all I hear. Maybe with the Stealthboxes right behind me it would work.

What is your opinion of them? Since you have a C6 vert like I do, do you think they're a decent solution, or at least a very reasonable compromise? I'm leaning in that direction since they're the only product built specifically for the C6 application that I know of.

I misspoke when I said I had an Elf mini amp. I think there is such a thing, but I have the Arc Audio 125 2 channel. It works great, no problems, stays completely cool and isn't much bigger than a dollar bill. I had it installed on the partition, hidden behind the waterfall.

Thanks for your help and advice. I know it took a lot of your time.

 

You certainly do not need deadening to make bass, you just need it so all the money you put into this pays off much better

Less road noise makes for a far better sounding system and you can play it lower and still enjoy it!

Tighter midbass response will occur in a well deadened door, this can actually sound like less output since you are not hearing all the extra noise you do not want to hear from a speaker not playing the signal well.
(road noise will modulate the output as well

Just having a sub does not mean it will sound great either, most do not set them up properly, phase, crossover slope, freq, all play a major roll, once you hear it right, you never will settle for less!

Proper electrical supply and deadening are cornerstones for any good system, we also need proper location of the sound stage, I have hardly ever heard that in systems installed by DIY or shops, very rare indeed, again once you hear it, spoiled for life

Rick

 

I can't tell you how many times I've heard a system that just blasts distortion all through the bass region from the doors. "KILLER MIDBASS HUH DUDE!"

 

You know exactly what I mean

I have found it hard to explain subs being in phase properly as well, when they are the output seems to drop dramatically, you have to listen for a bit to hear just how much better it sounds, then turn it up a bit as needed.

Recordings are all over the map, over boosted, underwhelming, etc, I generally adjust bass a fair amount from album to album but quite often track to track.

Of course sometimes other freqs are not recorded at the proper levels but tweaking them on the fly is a bit tougher!

Rick

 

I'm not an expert like some of the guys that have replied but I just did a similiar set up w/ Focal 165KF speakers & Sony XM-4S amp. It sounded D.O.A. !! So I upgraded to a JL HD600 amp and man did the system come alive. I'm very impressed with how good the low bass is...but not quit as good as a sub. (I don't have a sub)
Maybe you need a better amp. Any thoughts from the other guys.

 

I know more about that Elf amp than I wish I knew now, PM being sent.

Let's just say they could of done a bit more for the money and still made a nice tidy profit.

Rick

P.S. not a bad amp, I just know more about the marketing, etc than I wish I did because it does not make me happy.