Hey Audiofiles!

I am finally going to bite the bullet and pull my system (Blose) and get new HU, Speakers.

Two questions,

1.) Will I need an AMP or do most of the modern HU come with enough power? Keep in mind I may add a sub or two later...

2.) What parts would you reccommend? I will NOT be doing the install myself, so I am looking for stuff that most installers will have available.

I really would like something that can play MP3 or Windows Media Files.

I would prefer to stay affordable although I am VERY tempted to go all out and get a monitor style system.

Thanks in Advance

 

How good do you want it to sound? Spends some cash on Focal or MB Quartz components for better-than-movie-theatre sound!


1.) Will I need an AMP or do most of the modern HU come with enough power? Keep in mind I may add a sub or two later...

A head unit can power most cheap (Sub $200 a pair) speakers, BUT the quality won't be nearly as good. I mean, not even CLOSE. Your stock system will sound better, I bet!! Get an amp with a good reputation (My favorite is ARC, pricey, but made in the USA!)


2.) What parts would you reccommend? I will NOT be doing the install myself, so I am looking for stuff that most installers will have available.

Polkaudio and Infinti Kappa make excellent low end (Sub $200) parts. If you want killer sound quality avoid coaxials and get a good component set. I'm running JUST a set of Focal Utopia at around 125x2 RMS and it's LOUD, sounds GREAT, and the music comes from "all around" Music is only recorded in 2 channels, after all. Great inexpensive components can be found under the Crystal Diamond name. Don't buy a sony anything. Alpine also makes excellent sub $200 products.

 

I do like good clean sound, I spent a quite a bit on the house so I can watch my DVDs at optimal sound quality and level.

What is the difference between coax and component?

 

Here's a component set:



Here's a coaxial set:



There's also something called a "braxial" where the tweeter is on a bent piece of metal hovering over the speakr instead of on a pole THROUGH the woofer. But those are pretty rare, as far as I know, only one company makes them.

I'd take a braxial over a coaxial, but a component set is the best way to go.

The advantage of a component set is pretty clear.
But they eat a LOT more power :)


[Modified by Kale, 5:24 PM 4/1/2002]


[Modified by Kale, 5:24 PM 4/1/2002]

 

So looks like the coax is all in one, the component each piece is separate?

What do you mean they eat alot of power? Meaning they will be more of a drain on the altenator?

Is MTX any good?


[Modified by tkemory, 7:50 PM 4/1/2002]

 

So looks like the coax is all in one, the component each piece is separate?
Yes.

What do you mean they eat alot of power? Meaning they will be more of a drain on the altenator?
You can easily power coaxials with 15-40watts. Good components (like those focals) want about 100watts to sound right. More watts=clearer sound.

Is MTX any good?
They make pretty decent subs.

 

Since I am getting schooled on Stereos, mind if I ask another question?

Ohm? I have heard and seen people use this word, what does it mean?

And what is a crossover used for?

Thanks Kale :)


[Modified by tkemory, 7:52 PM 4/1/2002]

 

Ohm is the resistance of the speaker.
Some are 2 - 4 - 8 etc.

Most speakers are 4ohm. You will have a hard time finding components/coaxials that aren't. Bose are 1 ohm I think. A lot of subs are 2 or 8 ohm, though.

Say you have an amplifier rated at 100watts @ 4ohm
You plug it into a 4ohm speaker, it gets 100watts of power.

Now say you plug in a 2 ohm speaker, since the resistance is half, the power is "pretty much" double. So 200watts @ 2ohm. Here's the problem:
running at 2 ohms makes the amp run HOT. IF you pick a 2ohm speaker, make sure the amp states that it is "2 ohm stable"

Crossover will cut off or "direct" frequencies...

You have two types of crossover:
highpass - cuts off anything below X hz
low pass - cuts off anything above x hz (useful for subwoofers, midranges, etc)

speakers under 8" shouldn't play anything under 70hz,
so we have a 70hz high pass on say, the 6.5 focal speakers. When they try to play under 70, the sound is muddy, or distorts because they can't play them at all.

And for seperates, even coaxials, they are typically "crossed over" at 3000hz
which means < 3000hz, it goes ot the midrange. => 3000hz it goes to the tweeter. This is so the speaker doesn't "waste its time" trying to play anything it can't.

I hope this helps!




[Modified by Kale, 8:03 PM 4/1/2002]

 

Kale,

Yes it does, Thanks for taking the time to make that post, I am going to print that out and file it for a memory refresher.

Tomorrow I plan to talk to three local install shops and may have more questions once I get their sales pitch.

Last time I approached this topic I spoke with an installer over the phone and they mentioned replacing my wiring? Why do you think this would be neccessary? Or would it?

So in summary I am looking at:

HU replacement Maybe Pioneer DEH7400 (Plays MP3)
Pigtail (So dont have to cut existing wires)
Amp (Can I get away with one small one mounted under seat?)
4 New Speakers (Component Full range, to replace Twiddler Blose)
What kind of wattage do you reccommend on the system?

Am I missing anything?

OOps one more question I noticed there are different types of amps multi-channel, 2-channel, mono... Which should I be looking at? Why 3 types?

[Modified by tkemory, 8:16 PM 4/1/2002]


[Modified by tkemory, 8:17 PM 4/1/2002]

 

I had 4 low end speakers running on 35x4 RMS, and it sounded really good.

So I would say 35-50x4 RMS. But really, more watts = better.

RMS is the "real" power, what you hear 99% of the time. A lot of people rate things as "peak" power, which is kinda like saying... Sure this car will do 150.. (when dropped off a cliff with a rocket attached to it..)

I wouldnt go to any "standard" stores.. See if you can find a shop owned by enthusiasts. Give us an idea on what you want to spend..

Also, you can go to places like http://www.thezeb.com and get things REALLY CHEAP. But thety dont have the manufacturers warranty.

as far as wiring.. if you dont want to cut up your factory wiring, go new..
if you are running over 45watts rms per channel, get new wiring.

might be a good idea to run any potential set ups by the forum... maybe we can suggest something better, or a few changes, or what sounds best in each particular Vette. (For example, if you have metal tweeters and a GLASS roof, your stereo is going to sound VERY harsh, so go with soft tweeters if you have the glass roof)

You need 1 channel per speaker, so choose an amp accordingly. Don't buy Jensen, Pyramid, or Xplod.

Really, for best sound, buy some $450 components for the front, Forget the back speakers, and run 100 watts to each.

I have Focal Utopia 6.5's, you can get them for $650, the Polykevlars for lesS (almost sounds the same, but not quite)

an ARC 2100 115x2 Amp $400

and a head unit.. that's all..

Sounds spectacular.

 

I was going through the same dilemna as you are and I found lots of guys were going with boston aoustic 6.5" components with boston rally rx57s in the rear. Sounded good so I got the 6.5 on ebay for $350 and the rx57 from tmselectronics for $120. Then I needed an amp for those so from other recommendations I went with the phoenix gold ti500.4 amp which puts out very clean 75x4. Got that on ebay also brand new ($500). I then oredered an Audiobahn A2200HCX amp from http://www.thezeb.com whcih retails for $999.99 for $399.99 (other stores still sell it for over $750). That second amp is for the two woofers. I still don't know which woofers I'm going to get but it will probably be the audiobahn ALUM10X ($120). As for the head unit, I went with a Kenwood Z727 for $255 on ebay brand new.....got it just to tide me over until I can afford a HU with pop out screen for navigation/dvd/etc. I also ordered two audiobahn 1 farad capacitors with digital displays for $127 each off ebay. All I need now is wiring (dunno cost) and the woofers. Oh, I also got an audiobahn 20 band equalizer/crossover/line driver from thezeb for $250. Maybe you can can some ideas from that and the pricing. Check ebay....lots of great deals on there. I've never had a prob so far. If you decide to try buying on ebay, make sure the shipping price is good and go for powersellers. Make sure you want it though. One thing that worries me now.....is that al this crap in the rear weighs like 200 pounds! There goes the balance of my z06.......


[Modified by DaMaDo, 4:04 AM 4/2/2002]

 

Actually, in this case, Ohm is the unit of impedance not resistance
R = resistance in ohms
L = inductance in henry
C = capacitance in farads
w = angular freqency = 2 x 3.1415 x f
f = frequncy in hertz
j is a complex number operator for =/- 90 degrees
Z = Impedance in ohms

Z = R+jwL-jwC

Decreasing the speaker impedance or load will double the amount of current
that the amp must generate putting tremendous stress on the amps final output stage circuitry. For, amplifier longevity, it is a good idea to impedance match.
Just the Electrical Engineer in me splitting hairs. :smash: :lol:

For the most part, Kale got it right. As far as more is better, I disagree. 4x50 watts RMS to the front and rears is plenty. 1x200 to 300 watts for the sub. Anything more is simply a waste of power that you will rarely use unless you're nuts! IMHO
For imaging, clarity, and soundstaging, I personally love my Infinty Kappa components in my daily driver. I have 4x40 and 1x200 in a five channel Apline amp, 6.5" Kappa components, and a 10 Infinty Beta sub. I usually only have the volume on 1/3rd.

 

well, yeah, impedence, but it's a little harder for me to explain "clearly"

more is definately better in my opinion, as long as your drivers can handle the power... take a set of components that can handle 100watts rms, then power them at 50, then power then at 100, you will definately hear a difference.. Mostly a reduction of distortion at higher volumes... More bass. All the high end stuff handles 80watts rms +
Of course, maybe I am crazy. I listen to my music at 75-90% volume all the time.
If you don't, i would agree that 50 watts is "plenty".. Kinda like 140hp is plenty ;) Well, I did run a pair of infiniti kappas + a pair of Pioneer 6x9's at 35x4, and it was loud and sounded fairly good. Imaging and soundstage was poor, but it sounded good.

this is especially true with subwoofers. I personally don't like really LOUD subs, it takes away from a system.. my favorite 10 is the image dynamics ID10, great for sound quality in a small sealed box.. I'd have one right now but I went for a 50 gallon fish tank instead :p:

4x50 will be louder than 2x100.. simply because of total speakers, if nothing else.. the problem with rear speakers is you hear reflected sound, it messes up the soundstage.. You can't just "remove" rear speakers and expect it to sound good though, you really would need a mid or high end component set with great midbass.. I hear it is popular to run simple midbass speakers in the rear from 90-2500hz or so. this is good at reinforcing midbass without ruining your soundstage or imaging.. My coworker did this in his extended cab pickup with Crystal Diamond components, and it sounds pretty good.

Oh yeah, and don't get 6x9's, they are LOUD but make "incorrect sounding" bass..

these are just the things i learned after a LOT of trial and error on my system.

I highly reccommend doing it yourself.... I learned everything I know that way.. Same goes for working on my car in other respects.. It's all part of the experience. :cheers:


[Modified by Kale, 1:40 AM 4/2/2002]

 

Distortion does not "reduce" with increase in power! It only increases! It's kind of hard to judge Infinity Kappas when you used them with Pioneer junk. As far as 4x50 vs. 2x100 soundstaging, use a fader or dial in the amp sensitvity for the rears. :D

 

Stereo is recorded in 2 channels... :)

A good set and the speakers are "transparant" anyway.

rear speakers are really for passengers, anwyay... CDT's engineers have written some very good documents on soundstage which I read thoroughly before deciding on a component set. I dont have the docs anymore, but they are readily availalbe on the internet.

No argument here about the Kappas, they are at the top of their game in the low-mid end selection. They make really good bass for their size, and were the best 6.5 coaxials i heard under $150

50watts will allow you to play the music louder with less distortion than 15 watts, or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

when i changed my 6x9's power from 35x2 to 80x2 (or 100x2 depending on what you read about that particular SS amp..) they could play at similar volumes with far less to no distortion, where they would distort before, and they could play louder before I could begin to really hear the distortion.




[Modified by Kale, 2:44 AM 4/2/2002]

 

Wrong!!! :rolleyes: MORE distortion period. I have an Electrical Engineering degree and definitely know what I am talking about. Distortion increases as power output increases. It is essentially linear until the amp clips or the maximum capability of the speaker is reached at which point the it goes up exponentially. Geez. Some people just don't give up even when they... Oh well. whatever. If you think you need to have the last word. Go for it dude. It would explain your 18k posts. :lol:

 

Are we talking about the same thing? Are you nit-picking terminology?

My point is that more power allows the speaker itself to play at higher levels without audible distortion. A Speaker that can handle 100rms, will sound better at 100rms than 50rms.. etc etc etc.
:seeya


[Modified by Kale, 3:23 AM 4/2/2002]

 

at a good volume and 80+ watts each are distorting MORE than they would at 15 watts each at the same volume: Do even understand what you wrote? 80+ watts vs. 15 watts is NOT at the same volume level. Are you talking about the maximum power rating of the speakers??? :crazy: Wow!
[B]Distortion increases as output power increases, period, fact !!![B]



[Modified by JTE, 4:38 AM 4/2/2002]

 

That's what I'm saying! :lol: :smash:

 

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
:rolleyes:


[Modified by JTE, 4:56 AM 4/2/2002]