I recently had a new stereo installed by my local Memphis dealer and have some questions. I am pretty much an audio noob and have never installed my own system. I read that Memphis makes good equipment and I liked the guy at the smaller shop more than the people I talked with at the chain stores. Anyway, equipment installed:
Kenwood DDX418 head unit
MCC6 6.5 components and tweeters
MC 2.100 amp
10" M class subwoofer in a sealed box
MC 250.1 amp
all other speakers disconnected

I am a bit disappointed with the sub bass. I am not looking to bounce the hatch and I have read quite a bit of people using one 10 or 12" woofer. Maybe my idea of enough supporting SQ bass is different from others. The sub is rated at 300 RMS and the amp is 250 RMS---is that enough and would more power actually mean more sound. It seems that what I am lacking in my preference is at higher volumes. The front speakers sound so loud and clear that I have to push the sub too hard to keep up in volume. I also notice a bit of a void between mid and low bass. Do subs actually break in or is that a myth? Mine is less than a week old. Do you think I am under powered or have any suggestions as far as tweaking the amp settings---or any advise. I am 45 years old and listen to rock mostly ---not a teen wanting to push everything too hard. Perhaps I should start saving for a dual sub setup with more power. Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

Subs DEFINITELY break in, all speakers do for that matter. Subs just take a little more because size matters!

Tuning is likely the solution here.

To address the two significant issues you raise I would look at A) getting proper levels set and B) getting proper crossover settings. Do some Googling and you will find tons of write-ups on the getting the levels right. For the crossover on 6.5" mids you'll probably find that they setup the sub amp to be fed from a low-pass output of the amp driving your mains. I would try the LP somewhere around 80 or 85 to start and if you're still hearing the midbass hole bump it down until it sounds right to you. That being said with 6.5's you're probably only good down to about 65-70 so much below that and you're making the mids work for no reason.

 

Issue is most likely the setup. I can't believe how many 'professional' shops install awesome equipment into a car and then let it drive out of their shop sounding like crap because they're too lazy to tune it properly. A basic setup that's 'close enough' can be done in 10 minutes by someone who knows what they're doing.

 

I'm still at work so I have not had a chance to search the net for any answers but both replies seem to lean towards the setup. So, to answer one of my concerns, you guys feel that the sub amp I have should be enough to power my sub--and it is not under-powered? And that one 10" M class Memphis sub should be enough? I will look into some tuning or possibly turn it back over to the shop. The owner/installer started at 9:00 am and did not finish until about 8 p.m. The head unit was installed last month. I was not there except the first and last couple of hours. It took much longer than he expected. He did not add any labor charges to his quoted price but he certainly might have let me leave without dialing things in. He is a nice enough guy but it was a long day and human nature is what it is.

Although I didn't mention earlier there is a capacitor and sound dampening in the doors---for what thats worth for helping.

 

Many shops won't tune the system for you unless you know to ask (time is $ to them). Also, realize that you've got a brand spanking new system in there and that everything needs a few hours of operation to break in properly before you can really do much in terms of tuning anyhow.

I would run the system for 8 hours of drive time or so and then bring it back to that same shop, tell them it's broken in and you're ready for them to tune it. They should be more than happy to do so for no additional $ to you.

 

If it seems like the sub is just WAY underpowered, it could be out of phase. Many radios have a setting you can adjust that will reverse the phase with the push of a button (look in owners manual). But that's something that the installer should verify was done properly, if they tune it or not.

I'm not saying that all instalers should spend hours tweeking in every system they install, but at a minimum they should verify the sub is in phase, HP and LP filters are set properly for the equipment they just installed, and maybe put the HU's preset EQ on 'rock' for middle-aged white dudes or 'rap' for the younger generation. Right now if someone looking to have a system installed asked the OP how he liked his new setup, and the answer came back as 'sounds like crap with no bass', they just lost a potential sale. 5-10 minutes of basic setup time would be well worth the effort, plus IMHO that would be the minimum required to "do the job right".

 

Thanks guys for the feedback. I will see if there is a button to reverse phase but I do not recall reading about it or seeing it on the HU. I will also give it some time to break in as suggested. If I still can't find it to my liking I will see the dealer first --- before making my own adjustments. It will be a little awkward for me, a noob, to come back and tell this "professional" that I think he could have set things up better, but he did get paid well for his work and as I said earlier he seems like a good guy.
If that doesn't work out, I may ask for some more DIY instructions---in layman's terms of course! As far as power to the sub, there seems to be plenty of movement---just not a lot of sound. At least
not enough to keep up with the components up front. On the HU EQ, I have the treble at around 0, the mids around -4, the bass around 1, the sub out put at around 0. I have tried different frequencies on the EQ on the HU with similar result---overpowering crystal clear mids and highs that I can adjust the bass to match at low to mid volume, but at high volume the bass can't keep up and sounds like it starts to clip if I were to push it. Don't get me wrong, it sounds really nice but when I get the garage queen out for the weekend I want to crank it up a bit---I don't really use it for background noise as a daily driver.

 

I'd suggest that you give them a call and set up an appointment for tuning, that should get you the best their service has to offer. Take some of your favorite cd's in so they have a better understanding of what to aim for.

If you listen to mostly Rock then your sub level on the head unit could go up a bit to get more input voltage to the amp. This will require a reset on the amp gain structure.

It is rather hard to nail down exactly why your bass "runs out" at high volume. It could be tuning, an improper seal on the sub gasket or box, overall power compression (maybe too much boost), etc. Where is the sub enclosure located in your car?

The main reason subs need a break-in period lies in the physical properties of the spider. The resin in the spider needs time to essentially "crack". It sounds bad, but a good engineering dept. designs their product around what will be the majority of the time and not what is (if that makes sense).

GL

 

I am going to drop in on him Friday on my day off. After the install, he did sit in my car with me and go over a brief setting of the HU's EQ--less than 5 minutes. When finished he stated that this is where things should be and that I should not need to adjust from there. That seemed a liitle weird because recording types and their qualities vary so much---especially mp3's which is what I almost exclusively listen to through an Ipod. He also said that the amps were set and did not need any adjustment. They are now enclosed in a fabric covered thin masonite closeout that hides everything which leaves no access without minor disassembly. We never pushed the volume past about 25 (it goes to 35) and it sounded nice.
I do not have any pictures yet but the sub and amps are right behind the seat in a similar setup as many pictures on CF. The amps and sub are facing rear at somewhere near a 45 degree angle. The area is enclosed to look like one side-to-side box but underneath the sub is in a seperate small box. Before I left his shop on the install day, he had checked the box size requirements, built it from 3/4" MDF, and used silicone or RTV at all of the seams.
Maybe I am just wrong. Maybe I expect too much from the stereo. Maybe Memphis's M class (their best) is not the quality I had expected?
Maybe this middle aged white dude has a hip-hopping bass happy teenager inside of him trying to bust out. For the price of the equipment I expect more---even though this is nowhere near expensive in the big picture of today's audio where a set of component speakers can easily double the cost of my whole system.
Thanks agian to those who have replied and I will reply again after my trip to the Memphis dealer.

 

I have not driven too much in the last month---maybe 10-15 hours. I've been on vacation and dealing with an oil pan leakage that I have read about on many posts from others on here. I have spoken to the shop a few times but I never did take my car back. I think I have managed to get the sound that I thought was missing. My Kenwood head unit has a screen for crossover frequency adjustment. I did ask the installer about this during my 5 minute overview following the install completion. He said that I should keep this set at "THROUGH" which basically nullifies all adjustment because he had set the crossover frequencies on the components themselves. There is crossover adjustment for front, rear (not used) and a sub output control. By moving the front crossover (adjustment on the head unit only) from "THROUGH" to about 80 or 70 it made the void in mid bass go away and I am able to create a nice sound at higher volumes instead of the component and tweeter just screaming and stealing the show. The sub has a nice SQ to it as that is what is was designed for. To get a bass that I can really feel in my chest I suppose I would need to get a different sub or two and a more powerful amp. I am happy with things for now but I may redo the subs in the future.
Anyway, I guess my question is-----does my adjustment of the head unit crossover seem like an accurate fix or would crossover adjustment be better served being made on the actual component crossovers and/or amps. I wonder if I am getting the most out of the system. Forgive my lack of knowlege. As I have stated I am a total noob.

 

shoulda just contacted me and dennis from the get go wouldnt have had any of these issues... i would look to see where the crossovers are set on your amps and all other setting on amps and post those

 

I would have never sold you that DNX418 head unit for this setup
thats half your issue
Not the best to work with.
You should have went with a Pioneer 4300 or 3300 if you didnt want NAV
(this coming from a Kenwood guy)

The 418 is a real nice unit if your keeping the stock speakers

 

Yes, Dennis, i did email you an inquiry in late May. Unfortunately you were on vacation and by the time you replied I had found a good deal on the components and sub and I had committed to buying the amps at the dealer. No hard feelings---I was anxious to get something going.
I am curious about the Kenwood I have versus the Pioneers you listed. Would you please explain to a noob why the ddx418 is "not the best to work with" and "real nice unit if your keeping the stock speakers"? I am getting more interested in car audio and could always use some education.
PENTAVOLVO, I will list the amp settings after I remove the closeout covering them. Thanks guys.

 

Yes I know and no hard feelings on my end.
The preouts
there is only 2 sets of preouts front and rear on the 418
the pioneer 3300 and 4300 have 3 sets for front rear and sub
The 418 is more for my suggestion in keeping stock speakers where your not adding amps.
The 418 is Kenwood entry level version for those who want the media type double din in DVD and options to sync with the iphone.
If Kenwood is what you would have wanted I would have highly suggested spending a little more on the 5180 or the 816 from last years model. The Pioneer 3300 and 4300 are awesome units for those just wanting a double din DVD type and upgrading the system.

They are nice units dont take it wrong. But if I was suggestiong a system for you I would not really offer this unit due to preouts and what we have run across for best options is all.

Kenwood was running a dealer spiff type promo on ths DDX units in MAY so i am sure your local guy prob steered you that direction for this reason too

 

Thanks. I kind of understand what you are saying. My main reason for swapping the factory head unit was ipod/iphone interface and I did not like the add on types. I liked the KW display better than the Pioneers. Then it just ballooned from there (amps, sub, components, etc.). Sorry, but I am still unclear how the Pioneer would benefit me and help with some of the sound issues I am having though. Are you saying that the third preout (for sub) on the Pioneer would be better than the just the front/rear preouts on the KW even though I am not running rear speakers and using just 2 preouts?

 

I've been trying to get to the kenwood instructions online, but their site is sooooo slow....

One thing doesn't make sense to me. If the ddx418 only has front and rear pre outs, setting the crossover to 70hz should have eliminated the bass to the sub. From radbluesfan's description (crossover adjustment for front, rear, and sub), it sounds like there has to be 3 sets of preout. If not, what is the sub hooked up to??

Edit: finally got to the instructions. Since the Kenwood rear outputs are switchable to a subwoofer output, and since the OP is running only front and sub amps, I fail to see how the pioneer receivers three line outs would be any type of an improvement? Seems like the Kenwood fits that application.

 

the rear is a selectable rear/sub

 

So......what would the advantage be of having 3 preouts (pioneer) versus 2 preouts (kenwood) if I only have front speakers and a sub, as stated earlier by C5 BearsFan? Is there a difference in sound produced by the different units. Sorry but I'm just not getting it. Thanks for your patience.
I'm trying to get in the garage to play today but my wife and her friends are in this "Urban Race" for charity and I am the supporting cast at home with the computer to google facts for their directions and scavenger hunt----hence the numerous posts. Every time I go out there my phone rings (on bluetooth to make matters worse).

 

I was just stating the pioneer has 3 preouts versus your two and I don't like this kenoowd unit for what you doing is all. Unit will work its just for 300.00 for the 418 the pioneer 3300 is a better radio from all we have sold and from feedback.

 

Ah. So my sound issues are from setup and amp/crossover adjustments and not the Kenwood versus Pioneer. I agree, Dennis, the Pioneer you listed earlier (3300) is a nice unit and in hindsight I probably would have liked it better mainly because I like the equalizer on it better than the Kenwood. But in my younger days I had a couple Kenwoods and I think it caused me to be a little biased.
Thanks for all of your responses. It is amazing the amount of info and support found here-----thats something lacking in most places in the world these days!
I'll post the amps settings when I can get to it.
Thanks again.