I saw a lot of posts to NO to Bazooka. Fine, why ? just curious
I was looking at the Kenwood Tornado style build my own custom sealed box or Kicker SoloBarac L5 in the sealed box.
I would love some feedback :yesnod:


[Modified by JazyJeff13, 2:08 PM 11/6/2002]

 

Bazookas aren't very good because they're the ultimate in compromise. Their enclosures are really small, which means that the frequency response is not very flat. Plus they're in bandpass boxes, which are good for making REALLY loud sound in a fairly narrow frequency range, but doesn't lead to really clean sound.

I have a pair of Kenwood Tornado 12's in my truck and I LOVE them. You have to make sure to get the drivers made for small sealed boxes. The volume on mine per driver is 1.5 cu ft. Sealed box design always leads to as close to ideal frequency response as you can get. You get a butterworth response, which means that there isn't a peak at the cutoff frequency, the response above the cutoff frequency is flat, and the falloff below the cutoff frequncy is only -6dB per octave. With a vented box you get a peak at the cutoff frequency and -12dB per octave below that, with bandpass you get the peak and -18dB per octave below that (i think... might be -24dB).

Anyway, to sum up, I would personally never use anything but a sealed enclosure in my system.

Make sure you check out the 2-for-1 special on the Tornados at Crutchfield. You can get a GREAT deal.

 

If you're putting this in a Vette, I would suggest a single JL Audio 10".

that is what I have and man, that thing HITS... besides, the box is only .65cf!!!

 

Thanks for the response
Sounds good I can get 2 1.5 enclosures in the trunk of my 85 Eldorado. Sorry it's not the Vette but I left that one alone.
How much power are you sending them each ?


[Modified by JazyJeff13, 4:28 PM 11/6/2002]

 

that should fit... but thats a lot of bass, dude...

you need to measure... a 1.5cf box is gonna be large... 12x24x10 or so... double that for 2... and if you get the right sub, in the right box, you won't NEED 2 subs.

even in an old Eldo... unless, of course, you are out for pure boom for the buck...

 

Right now I'm running a 2-channel 140 watt amp. I don't know if that's RMS or peak, but I'm assuming peak. So figure about 35 watts RMS each. I don't have the specs on the amp, its about a 5th-hand... But they're still pretty loud. I'm about to upgrade to a new Kenwood amp that'll send 300W RMS to the pair wired in parallel. They'll handle that. The RMS rated power is 175W and I'll never turn my system up enough to even get close to that.

One caution with max rated power: the rating they give is the power the driver will take before the voice coil MELTS. This is nowhere near the real power handling capacity of the driver. At power levels slightly below this there is a possiblility of damaging the cone or surrounds. At levels significantly below this, the speaker will be driven to the end of its excursion and you'll hear clipping. Ideally, a speaker should be rated to around twice the max power it'll ever see. For somewhat similar reasons, an amp shouldn't be run at the ragged edge. You get distortion in the sound. So a good idea is: match the amp rating to the speaker rating (make sure you match RMS power ratings, not max power ratings), and then keep the gain on the amp set at a level where you don't hear distortion.

The best way to do this is to turn up the radio to as loud as you'll ever listen to it or until the woofers in the doors start to distort, then raise the gain on the amp until the subs start to distort, then bump the gain back down just a tiny bit.

 

What's your budget, rest of system, and how much space are you willing to sacrifice?

 

Excellent Info thanks I was looking at the 929 Kenwood 150x2 since they can take 175 each. I will keep you posted. I saw the 2 for one deal at Crutchfield .. Woo Hoo

 

Budget is not really an issue I'm looking at about $2000 for the total system. I am working on all Kenwood stuff to be good but not $5000 or I would have gone Alpine. As far as space I will need some Groceries and dry cleaning room but am not that worried about the space.
What would you suggest. The boxes I was looking at were triangle and would fit on either side of the spare tire.

 

For $2000 here's the system I'd put in:

Kenwood KDC-X859 head unit $350
Kenwood KAC-X650D amp $410
Kenwood Tornado subs $130
A good set of component 3-ways up front and a decent pair of co-ax 2- or 3-ways in back. I don't know which brand I'd get. I'm still looking. I figure you'll pay ~$400 for 4 speakers.
That all adds up to a grand total of about $1300. Tack on about $150 for wiring and supplies to make the boxes plus another $50 shipping on all that stuff and you're looking at $1500 for the whole shebang. If your budget is $2000 you can spend the extra $500 on putting in satellite radio and still have some left over.

The Kenwood amp is really nice because it's a 5-channel amp that puts out a good amount of power to the fronts and rears and a TON of power to the subs if you wire them in parallel. Plus the separate gain controls really let you tune the system. It's got better crossovers than the head unit alone and it interfaces with the head unit which is really cool.

As far as price, the Kenwood amp and head unit are really expensive at Crutchfield (what isn't?) but you can find them cheaper. At http://www.smilephotovideo.com you can get about $400 off the Crutchfield price on the pair. That's the site I used for the prices above.

This is pretty much the system I have in my truck, except I haven't gotten the amp or component fronts yet. Can't afford them for another few months. But even without that, the system sounds really nice.


[Modified by GTLocke13, 8:29 AM 11/7/2002]

 

Kenwood is ok for a mid-level system. But with a $2000 budget you could do much better. Here's what I'd use with that budget.

Alpine 7995 ($315 vs. $500 at crotchfeel) http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_g...2a331c04fe14fb

Image Dynamics IDQ12v2 Sub ($199) http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/IDSIDQ12D2V2

Sub amp(Rockford Fosgate 750w $339) http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/ROC2FR750S

Focal Utopia front seperates($589) http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/FOC136W

Orion XTR8004 Amp 100wx4($420) http://www.tms-electronics.com/produ...ductid=XTR8004

Boston Acoustics RX67 Rear coax speakers($120) Optional, some people don't like rear speakers. http://www.tms-electronics.com/produ...productid=RX67

This puts you under $2000 by enought to cover shipping and wires. Blow any system you could think of at any price by kenwood out of the water.


[Modified by 92TripleBlack, 9:20 AM 11/7/2002]

 

You're right. But I would just never use that much sound power. I mean, my subs are REALLY loud running a dinky little 140W amp. I'll never even use all of the 300 watts I'm putting in soon. I'd personally save the money.

Besides, I like Kenwood's head unit better than the Alpine. It has the same SNR and higher voltage preouts, plus internal amps if you don't want to run component amps to everything. And I just like how it looks better.

 

Thanks Greg I will take a closer look at that equipment. thanks for the info It should be a killer system Sub works in .5 to 1.0 cubes ... Awesome

 

Your right Dave but I will just not turn it up !!! :lol:

 

You know, that actually sound's like a good setup there 92TB. Even has good power for the components. :yesnod:

 

Yes and no. Yes, it is alot more power, but no you'd probably use it. The reason is that the speakers I chose are power hogs. They are very inefficient, rather they make less noise with an equal amout of power than most speakers. They transform that extra power into making the sound quality go up and making the bass, etc. tight crisp and clean. You would be able to hold a normal conversation while your spine is pulsed with bass for example. Very different feel in a good high quality set-up.
As for looks, that's personal so the Kenwood would get a boost up. Nothing against their head units, they are decent items. Their amps and speakers are not the best though and are much weaker than their decks. The Alpine deck "79" series though has one of the best CD sections from the standpoint of sound quality. Hope this gives everyone some ideas.
:cheers:

 

I agree on this one I have Paradigm Outdoor speakers by my pool I send 200 watts rms each fro a commercial PeeVee anf they sound awesome.
I have half the stuff anf might change some of it but am going to keep this info for the H2 that I hope is in my future. :cheers:


[Modified by JazyJeff13, 10:11 AM 11/8/2002]

 

Actually, if you can hold a conversation when your system's turned up, it means you have a big dip in your frequency response somewhere between 300 - 3000 Hz. The human ear hears frequency (obviously) so if you can hear speech, it means that those frequencies aren't being masked by your system.

Again, you're right. The Kenwood subs I have have a very high sensitivity (93dB i think). They don't need a whole lot of power to make a lot of sound. However, pretty much any sub, in the right box, will sound good as long as its not overdriven. Perfect sound quality isn't that difficult to get at low frequencies and middle-of-the-road power levels. Just don't turn it up too much. It gets real tough when you start driving 1000W of power through a speaker.

Interesting sidebar here... The best way to figure out how loud a sub can be is to look at the LINEAR excursion numbers. No one quotes linear excursion for their subs except for a few high-end companies. Everyone just quotes total excursion. Some of the subs out there have 3- and 4-centimeter excursions - well that's great, but if its only linear for the first centimeter, its gonna sound like crap when you turn it up. Anyway, sorry to ramble, that's just a pet peev of mine.

As for Kenwood's amps, their eXcelon line is actually pretty good. The one I'm getting is the X650D, which has 0.05% THD and a 105dB SNR. The Orion you suggested has a 0.03% THD. I don't know about you, but I can't hear that difference.

The system you suggested is definitely better, but I don't know that it's $500 worth better. As long as you're not gonna go try to knock out any windows with it. Mine won't hold up at the ungodly SPLs that that system can produce, but I never listen to it that loud.

 

Dave
SQ is Sound Quality
what is SPLs :confused:
Do you think a 1.5 cubft triangle box O.K. is shape important ?

 

Shape is not that important. Actually complex non symetircal shapes are prefered over a perfect cube in many instances. They are also more difficult to create and look crappy so that's why most are made in box shapes. Its far more important that you have the box properly reinforced and sealed. Use 3/4" MDF or fiberglass to build a sub box.
SPL is Sound pressure level or a way to measure how much air is being pushed and therefore sound created by a system. They often use this instead of DB for measuring stereo output.