Sealed 12" Type X Sub not sounding so good HELP!
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Palm City Florida
Sealed 12" Type X Sub not sounding so good HELP!
This is on my sons Altima.. We have the following
1 Alpine 12" Type X Sub Wired for 2 ohms
1 Alpine MRD-500 AMP
Q-logic Subwoofer enclosure (Sealed with Poly Fill)
The Car is a 1993 Nissan Altima with a pass through between the rear seat back. We have that opened and the Sub right up against the opening to the cabin.. We have not sealed the edges yet to completely isolate the sub from the trunk... Would that make a huge difference?
Also when the sub was all the way in the trunk firing across from right to left it sounded much deeper and louder..but I understand firing it into the cabin will give the cleanest sound..
The goal here is to hit HARD! 500 Solid RMS Watts to this sub should make it hit hard as hell... WTF?
Should we also try the Porting option on the Q-Logic Box? We can easily try it since the box is set up for either type.
I know subs are very critical to placement.. In fact my Home theater sub in the corner of the room shake the windows.. But if I put it just a few feet towards the center of the room I cant even hear it...
1 Alpine 12" Type X Sub Wired for 2 ohms
1 Alpine MRD-500 AMP
Q-logic Subwoofer enclosure (Sealed with Poly Fill)
The Car is a 1993 Nissan Altima with a pass through between the rear seat back. We have that opened and the Sub right up against the opening to the cabin.. We have not sealed the edges yet to completely isolate the sub from the trunk... Would that make a huge difference?
Also when the sub was all the way in the trunk firing across from right to left it sounded much deeper and louder..but I understand firing it into the cabin will give the cleanest sound..
The goal here is to hit HARD! 500 Solid RMS Watts to this sub should make it hit hard as hell... WTF?
Should we also try the Porting option on the Q-Logic Box? We can easily try it since the box is set up for either type.
I know subs are very critical to placement.. In fact my Home theater sub in the corner of the room shake the windows.. But if I put it just a few feet towards the center of the room I cant even hear it...
Last edited by chuckster; Oct 16, 2004 at 12:06 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
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From: Sacramento CA
the qlogic port is really insufficient for low enough tuning that it sounds good, WITHOUT port noise. Aim it at the back of the car.
Sound woofers soudn better when they are quieter. Thats why a lot of people think that the "quiet" direction sounds better. My sub sounds better at 50% volume than 100%, becausei t blends better with the midbass from the component set. The sub doesnt really sound any... different.
500 watts on a sealed 12, assuming the box is the right size, should give a good thump to people with bass-virgin ears (read: no hearing damage.)
Sound woofers soudn better when they are quieter. Thats why a lot of people think that the "quiet" direction sounds better. My sub sounds better at 50% volume than 100%, becausei t blends better with the midbass from the component set. The sub doesnt really sound any... different.
500 watts on a sealed 12, assuming the box is the right size, should give a good thump to people with bass-virgin ears (read: no hearing damage.)
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,137
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From: Iowa
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
Originally Posted by Kale
the qlogic port is really insufficient for low enough tuning that it sounds good, WITHOUT port noise. Aim it at the back of the car.
Sound woofers soudn better when they are quieter. Thats why a lot of people think that the "quiet" direction sounds better. My sub sounds better at 50% volume than 100%, becausei t blends better with the midbass from the component set. The sub doesnt really sound any... different.
500 watts on a sealed 12, assuming the box is the right size, should give a good thump to people with bass-virgin ears (read: no hearing damage.)
Sound woofers soudn better when they are quieter. Thats why a lot of people think that the "quiet" direction sounds better. My sub sounds better at 50% volume than 100%, becausei t blends better with the midbass from the component set. The sub doesnt really sound any... different.
500 watts on a sealed 12, assuming the box is the right size, should give a good thump to people with bass-virgin ears (read: no hearing damage.)
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,602
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From: Palm City Florida
Originally Posted by knewblewkorvette
To support what Kale has said, I've seen as much as a 6db gain just from turning the sub box 180 degrees so the woofer faces the rear. Be careful going the port route, it will be easier to blow the sub esp since it will be harder to hear distortion with the sub in a trunk.
I was playing a subwoofer test track that goes from 350hz down to 10hz and it was awesome!
the sweet spot seems to be around 130 to 150.. Damn near feels like the car is going to rip apart!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,331
Likes: 518
From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
Make sure that M500 is configured correctly. You can start with this:
Are you using the RUX-4280 remote amp control center? That device adds one more feature (a level control similar to the sub level on your H/U). If you are using the 4280 set the sub level to the max level (no cut). If you are not using the 4280 this is the default setting for this feature.
Set the Sub level on the HU to the max level.
Set your bass level **** on the HU to the point where you are normally going to listen to it. It should be less than half way.
Make sure the input mode is correct (1-ch or 2-ch)
Set the low pass to 80 hz.
For a sealed box turn off the subsonic filter. For a ported box turn it on and set it to 25hz.
Turn the bass compensation on the amp off.
Turn the Time correction on the amp off.
Turn the Parametric EQ on the amp off.
Turn the gain factor on the amp off.
Turn the input level all the way down to –18db (-24 on the 500 and 1000).
Make sure the gains for your mains are configured correctly. Put on a bass heavy track and turn the H/U up to the absolute max level you will play it at (mains distorting). Turn the H/U down a notch or two until the mains are at their max clean level.
Start to turn the amp input level up until you start to see the over indicator flash. At that point you might start to hear the amp distort. If you turn the amp input level all the way up to 0db and you still do not see the over indicator flashing on the amp then your max H/U volume setting is probably too low and the gains on your main amps are probably too high (mains distorting too soon).
You are done setting the input level and you can turn the H/U volume back down. If you find that you need more sub gain when playing music you can add it with the H/U bass ****, the Bass Compensation feature, or the parametric EQ. Bass Comp can be on or off and it does have a significant effect. For a boost with the parametric EQ start with 50 Hz, Q=0.5, level = +4db. Do not go over +10 with the PEQ.
Are you using the RUX-4280 remote amp control center? That device adds one more feature (a level control similar to the sub level on your H/U). If you are using the 4280 set the sub level to the max level (no cut). If you are not using the 4280 this is the default setting for this feature.
Set the Sub level on the HU to the max level.
Set your bass level **** on the HU to the point where you are normally going to listen to it. It should be less than half way.
Make sure the input mode is correct (1-ch or 2-ch)
Set the low pass to 80 hz.
For a sealed box turn off the subsonic filter. For a ported box turn it on and set it to 25hz.
Turn the bass compensation on the amp off.
Turn the Time correction on the amp off.
Turn the Parametric EQ on the amp off.
Turn the gain factor on the amp off.
Turn the input level all the way down to –18db (-24 on the 500 and 1000).
Make sure the gains for your mains are configured correctly. Put on a bass heavy track and turn the H/U up to the absolute max level you will play it at (mains distorting). Turn the H/U down a notch or two until the mains are at their max clean level.
Start to turn the amp input level up until you start to see the over indicator flash. At that point you might start to hear the amp distort. If you turn the amp input level all the way up to 0db and you still do not see the over indicator flashing on the amp then your max H/U volume setting is probably too low and the gains on your main amps are probably too high (mains distorting too soon).
You are done setting the input level and you can turn the H/U volume back down. If you find that you need more sub gain when playing music you can add it with the H/U bass ****, the Bass Compensation feature, or the parametric EQ. Bass Comp can be on or off and it does have a significant effect. For a boost with the parametric EQ start with 50 Hz, Q=0.5, level = +4db. Do not go over +10 with the PEQ.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,602
Likes: 20
From: Palm City Florida
Originally Posted by rbartick
Make sure that M500 is configured correctly. You can start with this:
Are you using the RUX-4280 remote amp control center? That device adds one more feature (a level control similar to the sub level on your H/U). If you are using the 4280 set the sub level to the max level (no cut). If you are not using the 4280 this is the default setting for this feature.
Set the Sub level on the HU to the max level.
Set your bass level **** on the HU to the point where you are normally going to listen to it. It should be less than half way.
Make sure the input mode is correct (1-ch or 2-ch)
Set the low pass to 80 hz.
For a sealed box turn off the subsonic filter. For a ported box turn it on and set it to 25hz.
Turn the bass compensation on the amp off.
Turn the Time correction on the amp off.
Turn the Parametric EQ on the amp off.
Turn the gain factor on the amp off.
Turn the input level all the way down to –18db (-24 on the 500 and 1000).
Make sure the gains for your mains are configured correctly. Put on a bass heavy track and turn the H/U up to the absolute max level you will play it at (mains distorting). Turn the H/U down a notch or two until the mains are at their max clean level.
Start to turn the amp input level up until you start to see the over indicator flash. At that point you might start to hear the amp distort. If you turn the amp input level all the way up to 0db and you still do not see the over indicator flashing on the amp then your max H/U volume setting is probably too low and the gains on your main amps are probably too high (mains distorting too soon).
You are done setting the input level and you can turn the H/U volume back down. If you find that you need more sub gain when playing music you can add it with the H/U bass ****, the Bass Compensation feature, or the parametric EQ. Bass Comp can be on or off and it does have a significant effect. For a boost with the parametric EQ start with 50 Hz, Q=0.5, level = +4db. Do not go over +10 with the PEQ.
Are you using the RUX-4280 remote amp control center? That device adds one more feature (a level control similar to the sub level on your H/U). If you are using the 4280 set the sub level to the max level (no cut). If you are not using the 4280 this is the default setting for this feature.
Set the Sub level on the HU to the max level.
Set your bass level **** on the HU to the point where you are normally going to listen to it. It should be less than half way.
Make sure the input mode is correct (1-ch or 2-ch)
Set the low pass to 80 hz.
For a sealed box turn off the subsonic filter. For a ported box turn it on and set it to 25hz.
Turn the bass compensation on the amp off.
Turn the Time correction on the amp off.
Turn the Parametric EQ on the amp off.
Turn the gain factor on the amp off.
Turn the input level all the way down to –18db (-24 on the 500 and 1000).
Make sure the gains for your mains are configured correctly. Put on a bass heavy track and turn the H/U up to the absolute max level you will play it at (mains distorting). Turn the H/U down a notch or two until the mains are at their max clean level.
Start to turn the amp input level up until you start to see the over indicator flash. At that point you might start to hear the amp distort. If you turn the amp input level all the way up to 0db and you still do not see the over indicator flashing on the amp then your max H/U volume setting is probably too low and the gains on your main amps are probably too high (mains distorting too soon).
You are done setting the input level and you can turn the H/U volume back down. If you find that you need more sub gain when playing music you can add it with the H/U bass ****, the Bass Compensation feature, or the parametric EQ. Bass Comp can be on or off and it does have a significant effect. For a boost with the parametric EQ start with 50 Hz, Q=0.5, level = +4db. Do not go over +10 with the PEQ.
I was hoping to use the Bass Comp on the AMP instead of the H/U because I don't want to be feeding more Bass to the other 4 speakers.. Those are being driven with a California 640W 4 channel Amp. I have the crossover set so they get nothing under 130hz.. But...If I start pushing the H/U Bass controls too high I know it will leak into those..
I ran a Sub test CD.. seems like the sub 100hz frequencies can be heard but not really FELT like the 130 to 150 range.... If I set the low pass to 80hz does that mean I only get 80hz and lower sent to the Sub?
What does the Bass Compensation Feature do? Same as the H/U?
The manual SUCKS for this AMP.. they tell you how to adjust but not what it actually DOES.. Any other links with more Programming info on the web?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,331
Likes: 518
From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
I've used the MRD-M500, MRD-M1000, and MRD-M1001 all with the RUX-4280 RACC. The front-end used on these amps is very advanced. Send me a PM and I'll address any of your questions.
If you are looking for SQ then you don't need to use Bass Compensation or Gain Factor. Bass Comp & Gain factor are really for those who have no interest in SQ and they just want to artifically pump up the bass. 500W to the sub should be enough without artificial boost. If you use the RACC you can turn on the Bass Comp for an extra boost when playing at low volumes and then switch it off when playing at high volumes.
Crossing the sub over higher than 80hz is going to send mid bass to your sub and you will start to hurt SQ. The sub will become directional. A good start is 80hz low pass to the sub and 80hz high pass to the mains. Your California amp probably does not have a steep x-over so you could probably high pass that in the 100hz range. You have to experiment. Keep the gains fairly low on the California amp, that is a low budget amp and you want to keep it clean.
If you are looking for SQ then you don't need to use Bass Compensation or Gain Factor. Bass Comp & Gain factor are really for those who have no interest in SQ and they just want to artifically pump up the bass. 500W to the sub should be enough without artificial boost. If you use the RACC you can turn on the Bass Comp for an extra boost when playing at low volumes and then switch it off when playing at high volumes.
Crossing the sub over higher than 80hz is going to send mid bass to your sub and you will start to hurt SQ. The sub will become directional. A good start is 80hz low pass to the sub and 80hz high pass to the mains. Your California amp probably does not have a steep x-over so you could probably high pass that in the 100hz range. You have to experiment. Keep the gains fairly low on the California amp, that is a low budget amp and you want to keep it clean.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
Originally Posted by chuckster
The manual SUCKS for this AMP.. they tell you how to adjust but not what it actually DOES.. Any other links with more Programming info on the web?
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Race Director
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From: Iowa
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
Crossing the sub over higher than 80hz is going to send mid bass to your sub and you will start to hurt SQ. The sub will become directional. A good start is 80hz low pass to the sub and 80hz high pass to the mains. Your California amp probably does not have a steep x-over so you could probably high pass that in the 100hz range. You have to experiment. Keep the gains fairly low on the California amp, that is a low budget amp and you want to keep it clean
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,602
Likes: 20
From: Palm City Florida
Originally Posted by rbartick
I've used the MRD-M500, MRD-M1000, and MRD-M1001 all with the RUX-4280 RACC. The front-end used on these amps is very advanced. Send me a PM and I'll address any of your questions.
If you are looking for SQ then you don't need to use Bass Compensation or Gain Factor. Bass Comp & Gain factor are really for those who have no interest in SQ and they just want to artifically pump up the bass. 500W to the sub should be enough without artificial boost. If you use the RACC you can turn on the Bass Comp for an extra boost when playing at low volumes and then switch it off when playing at high volumes.
Crossing the sub over higher than 80hz is going to send mid bass to your sub and you will start to hurt SQ. The sub will become directional. A good start is 80hz low pass to the sub and 80hz high pass to the mains. Your California amp probably does not have a steep x-over so you could probably high pass that in the 100hz range. You have to experiment. Keep the gains fairly low on the California amp, that is a low budget amp and you want to keep it clean.
If you are looking for SQ then you don't need to use Bass Compensation or Gain Factor. Bass Comp & Gain factor are really for those who have no interest in SQ and they just want to artifically pump up the bass. 500W to the sub should be enough without artificial boost. If you use the RACC you can turn on the Bass Comp for an extra boost when playing at low volumes and then switch it off when playing at high volumes.
Crossing the sub over higher than 80hz is going to send mid bass to your sub and you will start to hurt SQ. The sub will become directional. A good start is 80hz low pass to the sub and 80hz high pass to the mains. Your California amp probably does not have a steep x-over so you could probably high pass that in the 100hz range. You have to experiment. Keep the gains fairly low on the California amp, that is a low budget amp and you want to keep it clean.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,331
Likes: 518
From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
Replied.
Keep in mind that the sub you are running is not really a good match for that amp. The sub is designed to handle twice the power you are sending it. There are many good matches for a 500W amp and some include an Image Dynamics IDQ12, JL W6, Kicker S12L5, or even an Alpine 12" Type-R.
Keep in mind that the sub you are running is not really a good match for that amp. The sub is designed to handle twice the power you are sending it. There are many good matches for a 500W amp and some include an Image Dynamics IDQ12, JL W6, Kicker S12L5, or even an Alpine 12" Type-R.
Last edited by RussBt; Oct 20, 2004 at 02:45 PM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,602
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From: Palm City Florida
Originally Posted by rbartick
Replied.
Keep in mind that the sub you are running is not really a good match for that amp. The sub is designed to handle twice the power you are sending it. There are many good matches for a 500W amp and some include an Image Dynamics IDQ12, JL W6 or W7, Kicker S12L5, or even an Alpine 12" Type-R.
Keep in mind that the sub you are running is not really a good match for that amp. The sub is designed to handle twice the power you are sending it. There are many good matches for a 500W amp and some include an Image Dynamics IDQ12, JL W6 or W7, Kicker S12L5, or even an Alpine 12" Type-R.
This is actually my sons car. He picked the Type X expecting to run it with 1000W using 2 MRD-M500's.. He found out quickly that 4 ohms per VC only gets 250W from each Amp.. He has to run 2 ohms to get the amp to give him 500W. 1000 Watts is an impossible task with one Sub and 2 500s unless each VC were 2ohms..
So back to Selling the other amp on E-bay and buying the MRD-M1001...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,331
Likes: 518
From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
You are correct about needing to send these monoblocks a 2-ohm load.
I would probably keep the amp, sell the Type-X sub (very expensive sub), and get a pair of Image Dynamics IDQ10s. The IDQ subs are super efficient and they work well in very small enclosures (.5 cu-ft per 10" sub). That would be a great match.
The IDQ10s are only about $180 each so you should be able to pick them up for the money you would get when selling the Type-X sub. I think I would rather send 500W to two very efficient 10s instead of sending 1000W to a single inefficient 12. Then again, you could always send 1000W to two very efficient IDQ12s
I would probably keep the amp, sell the Type-X sub (very expensive sub), and get a pair of Image Dynamics IDQ10s. The IDQ subs are super efficient and they work well in very small enclosures (.5 cu-ft per 10" sub). That would be a great match.
The IDQ10s are only about $180 each so you should be able to pick them up for the money you would get when selling the Type-X sub. I think I would rather send 500W to two very efficient 10s instead of sending 1000W to a single inefficient 12. Then again, you could always send 1000W to two very efficient IDQ12s
Last edited by RussBt; Oct 20, 2004 at 03:02 PM.
