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Dry sump without losing A/C

 
Old 12-17-2007, 11:20 PM
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Wicked Weasel
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Default Dry sump without losing A/C

Are there any choices out there? I would like to keep the A/C, but also have a good dry sump.

thanks
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Old 12-18-2007, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Wicked Weasel View Post
Are there any choices out there? I would like to keep the A/C, but also have a good dry sump.

thanks
All of the reasonable dry-sumps for our cars are really only semi-dry though (scavenge only). They also only scavenge from the pan, not from the heads (where I load tons of oil and the cause of my problems). However, we should be able to vent the heads right back to the dry-sump tank and let the oil dump right back there and cure our problems. I'm still looking for more info but 90% sure I'll do something dry-sump before spring, and would love to setup a GP.

Anyway, I've looked into it a good bit and only found one system that allows you to keep AC: http://www.aviaid.com/pdfs/ls1and7_broch.pdf

The "LS-A" setup is the only one that allows you to keep AC.

-TJ
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Old 12-18-2007, 06:58 AM
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Thanks

I will have to call them to see what pump they offer with it. This would probably be better than nothing, but not sure how affective.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:10 AM
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In a dry sump you typically do not vent any part of the motor so the oil pump can pull a vacuum.
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by trackboss View Post
In a dry sump you typically do not vent any part of the motor so the oil pump can pull a vacuum.
Hmm, so no PCV setup at all? I thought this was only done when running a true vacuum pump, but I've never looked into it all that much. FWIW one of the other vendors told me to run the stock PCV lines (my car actually doesn't have a stock setup... but the same applies) to the dry-sump oil tank. I hope w/ the dry sump setup (and maybe some oil restrictor push rods) I get less oil to the top of the motor... but still I need somewhere for it to go when it does get up there during long, sustained 1+ G turns.

-TJ
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Old 12-18-2007, 02:45 PM
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With a dry sump you are trying to extract all oil from the engine as efficiently as possible so it is best to pull a vacuum. Any breathers on the engine will not help there. The tank is where everything vents. PCV (in stock location will not work.) All factory motor vents should be removed. I'm no expert, but if you are looking for emmissions compatability it would be a good idea to look at the ls7 setup. I'm sure they had to do something there to comply. Just an idea, but I would bet they vented the tank back into the motor intake tract somehow. Possibly similar to how the stock pcv is vented to the throttle body area. Just keep in mind that anything behind the throttle body blade is vacuum so if that is not desired vent before. You may be able to simply connect the vent at the tank to an inlet behind the throttle blade and put the pcv inline there just like stock. These are all just ideas. I haven't thought this out entirely.
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by trackboss View Post
With a dry sump you are trying to extract all oil from the engine as efficiently as possible so it is best to pull a vacuum. Any breathers on the engine will not help there. The tank is where everything vents. PCV (in stock location will not work.) All factory motor vents should be removed. I'm no expert, but if you are looking for emmissions compatability it would be a good idea to look at the ls7 setup. I'm sure they had to do something there to comply. Just an idea, but I would bet they vented the tank back into the motor intake tract somehow. Possibly similar to how the stock pcv is vented to the throttle body area. Just keep in mind that anything behind the throttle body blade is vacuum so if that is not desired vent before. You may be able to simply connect the vent at the tank to an inlet behind the throttle blade and put the pcv inline there just like stock. These are all just ideas. I haven't thought this out entirely.
I'm not worried about emissions... I have bigger issues there. Haha.

My worry is that if the sump-pump doesn't pull enough vacuum my motor seems to create a lot of positive crankcase pressure (some blow-by I'm sure, though leak-down tests are very healthy on it). W/ the stock PCV setup it'd push out valve cover gaskets from time to time, and once my ghetto rigged PCV setup that's on it now kinked and it pushed out a valve cover gasket.

I'd LOVE to get rid of all my PCV/catch-can/James Bond Smoke Screen woes.

So Wicked Weasel you want to contact the manufacturer, get setup as a distributor, and run a GP for us!?!?!

-TJ

Last edited by tjZ06; 12-18-2007 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by tjZ06 View Post
I'm not worried about emissions... I have bigger issues there. Haha.

My worry is that if the sump-pump doesn't pull enough vacuum my motor seems to create a lot of positive crankcase pressure (some blow-by I'm sure, though leak-down tests are very healthy on it). W/ the stock PCV setup it'd push out valve cover gaskets from time to time, and once my ghetto rigged PCV setup that's on it now kinked and it pushed out a valve cover gasket.

I'd LOVE to get rid of all my PCV/catch-can/James Bond Smoke Screen woes.

So Wicked Weasel you want to contact the manufacturer, get setup as a distributor, and run a GP for us!?!?!

-TJ
I am talking to a few places right now to see if there are any options for A/C besides the 2 stage pump showed above (which would be an ok alternative). I will let you know what I figure out.

And if someone wants to make us a distributor I am sure ECS would do a GP.
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Old 12-18-2007, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Wicked Weasel View Post
I am talking to a few places right now to see if there are any options for A/C besides the 2 stage pump showed above (which would be an ok alternative). I will let you know what I figure out.

And if someone wants to make us a distributor I am sure ECS would do a GP.
That'd be awesome... I'll keep an eye on this thread!

-TJ
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:23 AM
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well after talking to a bunch of different companies that specialize in dry sumps there really is no good setup to run on the track without losing your air conditioning.

I had a few choices of what to do. First choice do nothing and hope the 402 holds up, but that just seemed foolish. Second choice was to add an accu-sump. Works for many people, but after looking into the dry sump it is hard to look at an accu-sump. Third and final choice build a different engine.

I never really thought of a different engine until Johnny (shop manager for ECS) brought it to the table. He laid out what he thought was a viable solution and we started to look into pricing. Well at the end of the day the 402 idea was scrapped and now I am waiting for my 427

LS7 setup will allow me to have the dry sump and still keep the air conditioning. It is more HP than I need for the track, but since HP is controlled by right foot management it should not be a problem.

I am actually kind of happy about the decision. Not just because of the A/C, but more so because a 427 sounds like it belongs in a corvette. Sure a 383 or 402 has plenty of power for the track, but when someone says 427 peoples eyes seem to light up.

I will post up what we did to make a track car that we believe will be very reliable. Of course only time will prove or disprove that.

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Old 12-21-2007, 09:08 AM
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I think that is an excellent choice. I am thinking of selling my brand new dry sumped 5 liter that is in my GT1 car and drop in an LS7 and run NASA Enduros. The LS7 has less power, (505 vrs 570) but with the NASA rules, I could drop the weight to compensate for it.
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Old 12-21-2007, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ghoffman View Post
I think that is an excellent choice. I am thinking of selling my brand new dry sumped 5 liter that is in my GT1 car and drop in an LS7 and run NASA Enduros. The LS7 has less power, (505 vrs 570) but with the NASA rules, I could drop the weight to compensate for it.
When Johnny mentioned it I thought of our conversation earlier this week and what you were thinking. That is one of the reasons why I was thinking it was a great idea (although I wish I thought of it first ).

Oh and if you want we happen to have a 402 sitting around that might spark your interest since I know your car will not have A/C
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Old 12-21-2007, 09:39 AM
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Do you know makes a plumbing fitting for the oil lines? It is a little plate that has the "goes into" and "goes outa" lines in one fitting with a retaining screw. I (and probably you) will need one that will allow Aeroquip type lines to the dry sump tank.
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Old 12-21-2007, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ghoffman View Post
Do you know makes a plumbing fitting for the oil lines? It is a little plate that has the "goes into" and "goes outa" lines in one fitting with a retaining screw. I (and probably you) will need one that will allow Aeroquip type lines to the dry sump tank.
Gary we found a vendor that makes an adapter plate. Let me talk to the vendor before I give out any info on CF.


I will call you later.
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:54 PM
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So you'll be going w/ a factory LS7/C6Z setup? That's definitely not in the cards for me so I guess the search continues...

-TJ
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tjZ06 View Post
So you'll be going w/ a factory LS7/C6Z setup? That's definitely not in the cards for me so I guess the search continues...

-TJ
um somewhat - would good would OEM be

Think of my setup as the big brother to the LS7, but yes that is what I am doing.

Everyone I talked to said that without losing (or relocating) the A/C the dry sumps are really just bandaids and not worth the money to install. Believe me I was real close to saying lets go with the 402 with the LSA setup. I figured with the melling oil pump and that LSA it would be good for HPDEs, but I guess with doing 15 track days per year and the way I drive it just would not work.

For me I was already into getting a new engine so the extra costs for the LS7 setup is still within my budget. If I had the 402 already I would be looking too.

If I come across anything I will let you know.

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Old 12-21-2007, 04:32 PM
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So you (and others) felt the LSA type setup wouldn't get the job done? What did you think the system was lacking? I already ahve a built motor and (hopefully) won't be doing a motor build for some time. I'm starting to think I'm going to have to lose my AC... but not ready to do that just yet. I remember regretting it a lot on my '99 Z/28, but that was done only for weight and the weight savings vs. that car being my daily driver were just NOT worth it. However, in the case I'd be doing it for more reasons than just weight savings, and the Z06 is not a DD. But driving too/from THill in the summer still factors in.

-TJ
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:07 PM
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I was Googling the adapters and I found these:

This is a cool website where they are putting a LS-7 into a 69 Camaro, and they are from here:
http://www.lateral-g.net/g69/project/motor/
http://www.hotrodlane.cc/LS7/oilpanadaptors.html

Last edited by ghoffman; 12-21-2007 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ghoffman View Post
I was Googling the adapters and I found these:

This is a cool website where they are putting a LS-7 into a 69 Camaro, and they are from here:
http://www.lateral-g.net/g69/project/motor/
http://www.hotrodlane.cc/LS7/oilpanadaptors.html


how much?

and that build looks cool
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Old 01-17-2008, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by tjZ06 View Post
So you (and others) felt the LSA type setup wouldn't get the job done? What did you think the system was lacking?
-TJ
I'm curious to hear more about the http://www.aviaid.com/ LS-A system. I also found a company called ARE that appears to be selling the same kit: http://www.drysump.com/ls1.htm. I only do 4-6 HPDE's a year and don't run slicks so I was thinking of just doing an accusump. I'm curious how much more effective these poorman's drysump systems would be and how much more expensive.
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