is this normal?


This is the GM ceramic pad. I did a series of high speed stops to the point of smelling the brakes (no smoke though) Ever since then, the braking effort is higher.

I bought Hawk HP Plus pads for an event next week - when I took off the ceramics - this is what I found.

Is this a manufacturer defect? Or are these pads not capable of 4 90-15mph braking events in a row?

The rotors are slotted and dimpled.

 

I think thats pretty normal. I tried to do an event on ebc green stuff and demolished them worse than that. (I had replacement pads, just wanted to see what would happen to them)

 

looks like the material failed
over temped?

did they start to fad out on the last stop?

 

after the last stop - they were completely different. Waaay more pedal effort.

 

NO offense that is one reason ceramic pads should never be used on pick up trucks and performance cars. Ceramic brakes pads dont stop that well under normal conditions and under hard braking they tend to melt and may not stop at all.

That EXTRA peddle effort is from the pads glazed over. Time to toss those brake pads.

HP Plus are aggressive street brake pads. and are good semi double duty brake pads.

 

I knew that the ceramics were lousy in high performance applications. I didn't expect them to detonate like this though. I just thought they'd fade.

I'm in the middle of getting my car ready for a HPDE this Friday (8/15).

One area of concern was the brakes. I put these ceramics on the car about 6 months ago during a routine brake job. For regular street driving, they have been fantastic. I've read on here that they don't do nearly so well at the track.

So, after changing the brake fluid (Motul), I took the car out and did a series of brake tests to see how they would perform.

You see the results.

Since the car will be driven to the event and not on a trailer, I was limited to pads that cross over. That's pretty much the Hawk HP Plus. They were just a little more expensive than the Stock Z06 from GM.

But now that I've trashed these pads, I can't put them back on the car. Crap. more money out the window!

For the street, they were REALLY nice. The dusting properties and general performance was outstanding. Just don't get them too hot. I'll end up buying another set.

Cleaning Z06 wheels is just a PITA.

 

I think you hit it on the head.
They are good pads in the right application. ie; low dusting, stop well when cold...etc.
But, they dont tolerate alot of heat ( aka: track enviornment)

 

FYI, the Z06 OE pads and the HP+ pads are about the same performance-wise.

Have a good one,
Mike

 

you might want to look at our pads http://www.ctbrakes.com/

Carbotech Performance Brakes™ began almost 15 years ago. In the beginning we thought like everybody else and made brake compounds out of carbon & iron. The problem with carbon & iron is that when it heats up it forms carbide. Carbide is used in cutting tools, so imagine what that does to your rotors. Along with the fact that those compounds tear up rotors, they also produce very corrosive brake dust. While our competition stills uses carbon & iron as the main ingredients in their compounds, Carbotech started an entire new philosophy almost seven years ago.

Carbotech Performance Brakes™, the world leader in Ceramic friction materials™. It was almost seven years ago that Carbotech started building brake pads out of Ceramic, Kevlar, and Carbon for street, autocross and racing applications. Carbotech is the only brake pad manufacturer in the world with a complete line of Ceramic compounds for street, autocross, and track use. Carbotech-Ceramic™ compounds are known for their unsurpassed release & modulation, while maintaining very consistent torque control characteristics. Carbotech brake pads are extremely rotor friendly and contain 100% non-corrosive brake dust, that’s something that has been unmatched by any other brake pad in the industry.

Our competitor’s brake pads perform like an “on/off” switch. Brake pads that perform like an "on/off" switch are upsetting the balance of the car by violently throwing all that weight forward (not to mention that you don't get any modulation with an "on/off" type of brake pad). You don't realize how much it upsets your car until you have tried Carbotech Performance Brake pads. Carbotech has almost a seven year head start on the competition when it comes to our great philosophy on release & modulation, rotor friendliness, non-corrosive dust, and an unmatched consistent bite.

Carbotech uses advanced friction technology to perfect all of our compounds for the street & track. Research & Development (R&D) is not just a company philosophy; it’s a way of life for Carbotech. In fact, R&D at Carbotech is a 365 days a year job. Continuous improvement is a cornerstone in Carbotech’s solid reputation it has built, because great compounds are not engineered overnight.

You’ll find that no one else in the industry releases new compound formulations like Carbotech consistently does. We don’t believe in finding a good compound and trying to ride it as long as possible. We have a saying around here that is imbedded into every employee’s thought process; it’s called “continuous improvement, with no end in sight”.

We strive in constantly improving our existing compounds as new technologies and materials come to market. In fact, the Bobcat 1521™ compound is arguably our most successful compound, and it continues to gain enormous popularity among the performance industry. But, we didn’t rest on its success. We have just improved the Bobcat 1521™ compound to be even quieter and smoother when applying and releasing the brake pedal while keeping its outstanding performance right on target.

We have just developed another race compound that will exceed the XP12™. This new compound is called XP16™. XP16™ was released in the fall of 2007. Also in the works are a few different endurance compounds that will be suitable for all endurance applications. You will most likely find a Carbotech employee at many Pro, Grassroots, and Track-Day/HPDE events providing customer support and troubleshooting any brake issues (even if it’s not pad related or even if they aren’t Carbotech brake pads).

We don’t just sell you a set of brake pads; we deliver unmatched customer support and technical help. Carbotech Performance Brakes™ are also leading the way with Pro, Grassroots and Track-Day/HPDE groups and drivers. We can help you find the perfect set up for your vehicle by having an entire line up of street and track compounds for your application.

Carbotech Performance Brakes™ allows drives to Go Deep™ into the corners and out brake the competition. Carbotech have won multiple national championships, pro races, and rally races all over the world. Our race compounds start with the letters "XP™" then they are followed by a number. The first number is 8 (XP8™), and as you go up in numbers the initial bite gets much stronger, higher fade resistance, higher torque, better wear rate, and an increase in the temperature range. On that same note, as you go up in our compound numbers you will get more aggressive on the rotors.

Even our XP12™ compound is still very rotor friendly compared to the competition. With all Carbotech compounds you will have to apply a little bit more pedal pressure to get the maximum amount of bite from the brake pads. That's because you have the ability to modulate your pedal with our ceramic/kevlar compounds. That's a huge advantage to any driver, especially a driver who has a good feel for their car. The more you can modulate your brakes the more car control you have under braking. The more control a driver has under braking gives the driver an edge in the braking zone and the first part of a corner. Control which in the end helps you attain faster and more consistent lap times. Go Deep™

 

"Since the car will be driven to the event and not on a trailer, I was limited to pads that cross over. That's pretty much the Hawk HP Plus. They were just a little more expensive than the Stock Z06 from GM."

I drive on the racing pads 2 hr to and from track, a little squeaky, but stopping is fine. I would consider a full race pad and change out when you get back from track. Many guys do it this way

 

those are defective

should have gotten Hawk Ceramic instead, that won't happen with them even at higher temps, they'll just start losing friction coefficient above 800 degF

they're not track pads, but saying they don't belong on a sports car is only a comment from someone who hasn't driven on Hawk Ceramic, it's an outstanding street performance pad without all the squeal and dust issues (or ice mode) you'll likely experience with a track pad, since you intend to swap pads for track you'll be fine

 

Go Deep.... Love the catch phrase. This isn't a male dominated market is it??!?!

I think we should open up a user submitted catch phrase contest - with a free set of pads as the award.

"Stops faster than a bus full of convicts passing the Playboy Mansion!"

When these Hawks die, I'll take a look at the offering.

Thanks,

Mitch

 

Most semi hard track braking applications START AT 1000* F and will go up from there with repeated hard or semi hard braking.

Or just brake sooner, and bleed your brakes after the first day

 

thank you and as always GO DEEP