BlackRocket

What are the benefits of a dry sump over a wet sump???

Also, who makes the best dry or wet sump oil pans for road racing an LS motor?

Lastly, is an oil cooler really necessary?


*Seems like a dry sump with an oil cooler has a lot of lines that would eventually develop a lot of maintenance/headaches...basically is all the plumbing for a dry sump really worth all the expense and the maintenance?


Thanks!

wallyman424

for a stock motor drysump is way overkill. for a motor that costs a whole bunch, then its a good investment.

AU N EGL

accu-sump, oil cooler and lines, for me is 10 1/2 qts. When I change the oil about 9 to 9 1/4 drain out. So I put that amount back in.

Yes changing oil is a little different then just open the drain plug in the pan, but not too much. After the pan drains, flip the sump switch to let the sump drain into the pan and out plug hole.

Too refil do it just like normal. Put in 6 qts, start the motor and let the oil circulate, add two more qts, and let the sump start to fill, add 1 qt let the oil circulate and fill the sump.

Most of the time I will need to add 1/2 or 1/4 qt after a short drive.

OKsweetrides

Worth it? Entirely dependent upon your goals. Heck, I run it (dry sump) on my stock short-block'd LS6.

I'm not following your maintenance idea though... It's very dependent upon how you design and route the plumbing.

vette6aut0x

I have done a little investigating on the engines. From what I have found, the culprit is not the pan or the pump but the way the rotating assembly is oiled. From what I can find out the culprit is the lifter bores. Under extrem use the bores get larger and the oil passes threw at a faster rate and starves the bottom end. I think this to be true because I have a dry sump on my 383 and last weekend at Barbers a friend of mine has a 383 just like mine also has a dry sump and spun a rod bearing during a race and desroyed his engine in the same maner as mine did. The next engine I build will have sleaved lifter bores. Anyone have any input on this with data?

Tom03Z06

http://www.drysump.com/

Look at spending a minimum of 3k.

0Vector Vette

If you are building a racecar, there is no doubt that you should dry sump it if you can. T1 rules do not currently allow it. However, both Joe Aquilante and Chris Ingle have petitioned the comp board on this issue. There were several blown motors at this years runoffs and Ingle blew up 2 or 3 this year alone! All of the TCC LS motors have a dry sump in them. Losing a motor, even a stock LS6, is not cheap. Crate motor is aprox $5600, plus installation. Not to mention what you spent to get to a race and then don't get to race. I am not saying you will never blow an engine if you dry sump it, but the track record is that they last far longer with the dry sump.

ARE makes a real nice setup, cost is around $3000. You will probably spend another $500 on plumbing it in. Yes, you do need an oil cooler. I would recommend a seperate oil cooler, not one built into the radiator.

Independent1

A dry sump prevents loss of oil pressure under high G conditions, whereas with a wet sump it is possible to lose oil pressure. Loss of oil pressure can cause engine failure, which is bad. A secondary benefit is higher HP due to crank not having to go through oil in the pan.

The downside of dry sumps is that they are expensive and you have to find a place to put the oil reservoir.

Accusump is a nice tradeoff in terms of costs/benefits and seems to work pretty well.

Link:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question331.htm

wtknght1

Yep, it was an ugly year! GM and I developed the prototype gull-wing oil pan to help, but it still starves a bit turning left (as we saw at Topeka). Joe's initial request to approve a dry-sump was turned down, but the CRB is going to have to relook that, 'cause we just can't keep replacing these engines. The Tracy's submitted another dry-sump system so we'll see what happens.

As far as coolers go - absolutely!!! If you're going to be tracking these cars at all, you'll need them. The CRB approved 2 coolers in series for the LS3 car and I still see 300+ oil temps. If you drive an LS3, think about putting 3 coolers on there however you can...and a dry sump. These cars just run HOT!!!!!!!

ghoffman

No dispute here, if you can afford it and the rules permit it, dry sump is THE way to go.

coffey

If you want the best setup and minimal plumbing, go with the Dailey setup. The pump mounts right to the pan. No pickup hoses.

Tom03Z06

As does "ARE".

vette6aut0x

Minimal plumbing, but significant fab required. Do you know anyone running a Dailey setup?

vette6aut0x

No, it doesn't. The scavenge pump mounts to the block and the scavenge hoses route to the pan.

And his pans are garbage.

vette6aut0x

Aviaid has some new options. I'll be checking them out at PRI.

Avaid LS1/LS7

ProgGod

ARE makes the pans that AVIAID uses, as well as their own. Definitely wouldn't say they are garbage. I have the ARE stage 3 on my street z06, and a 4 stage AVIAID system on my race car. Both pans are ARE and both pumps are AVIAID.

Plumbing is an enormous expense when done right. And yes you will have major headaches getting the systems working right, but worth it.

trackboss

So what exactly is not desirable about the are pans?

vette6aut0x

Well, maybe "garbage" was a little strong, but of the 3 LS pans I have personal experience with, none of them were flat and all required some massaging to fit.

Don't make me post pictures of the Ford pan I got from them to prove my point.

And something I've always wondered about...didn't GM press releases regarding the LS motors claim that the oil pan was a structural member? What effect does changing to a less supportive pan have?

trackboss

So are ARE pan mounting surfaces not machined flat? In general, cast aluminum is more rigid than welded/stamped steel pans and as a result tends to seal better when torqued properly. Most all the canton pans I've used on small block fords have leaked. If I was allowed dry sump ARE was a consideration, but if the quality sucks then I'll take them off my list.

vette6aut0x

All I'm gonna say is buyer beware.