Nurburgring deaths
02-09-2010, 06:20 PM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Nurburgring deaths
I was watching a show on HDTheater about the ring and how it is rented to the public. They stated that 1 person a week dies there!
02-09-2010, 07:03 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
Man, could you imagine if that track was in the US? It would have been shut down years ago. Pretty wicked, but I don't think they require a helmet. A lot of youtube vids from the ring show helmetless drivers. Scary stuff.
02-09-2010, 07:07 PM
#3
Former Vendor
It's all fun and games until you hit the wall and GAME OVER.
From my understanding a ton of sport bikers run there. With the walls I don't think it's very good for the driver.
Randy
From my understanding a ton of sport bikers run there. With the walls I don't think it's very good for the driver.
Randy
02-09-2010, 08:31 PM
#6
Instructor
From speaking with the folks who run RSR Nurburg, a great place to rent a track ready ride for 'The Ring, the official count is 2-3 per year. When you count in road deaths from the area (that most likely occured on the Nordschleife), it is probably 12 -18 per year. Since much of the traffic is in the summer, maybe they have some short periods where they average one per week.
Almost all of the deaths are motorcycles riders. I have driven during busy weekend days where I saw 2 motorcycle wrecks in a lap! One per lap is common. Before freaking out, consider that this is a public road, and a very fast and technical one. Young males, with high powered bikes, are prone to drive beyond their talents. 'The Ring has many fast over hill sections that are followed by turns, and there is no run-off. If one drives flat over a hill assuming he has a straight on the other side, he will crash. If a motorcycle hits the armco, he may die because the track is fast. It's really that simple. If one displays self preservation, it is not dangerous when dry (and in a car).
One of the risks is the presence of slow sightseeing drivers and even tour buses (no joke!). Again, self preservation will protect you from these hazards. One must be extremely aware during touring sessions (the only time most of us will drive on 'The Ring). Another risk is being overtaken at extremely high speed differentials. One must pay attention to his mirrors and track position (all passing on the left, and moving left in front of a passing car will be 100% your fault by German law). Again self preservation is key.
The armco is ever present and fairly tall, so you can have a heck of a wreck in a modern car and walk away. Unless a driver chooses to really get after it (and escepially if he is mixing it up with other drivers), I would not call driving there "scary". For sure, one should not drive it like a typical American track with only a few turns and lots of runoff until he has memorized the track and acquired much skill, and even then not with slow traffic present.
Having said all that, I heartily recommend all track junkies make the trip and drive the Nordschleife at least once. It is a life changing experience!
Almost all of the deaths are motorcycles riders. I have driven during busy weekend days where I saw 2 motorcycle wrecks in a lap! One per lap is common. Before freaking out, consider that this is a public road, and a very fast and technical one. Young males, with high powered bikes, are prone to drive beyond their talents. 'The Ring has many fast over hill sections that are followed by turns, and there is no run-off. If one drives flat over a hill assuming he has a straight on the other side, he will crash. If a motorcycle hits the armco, he may die because the track is fast. It's really that simple. If one displays self preservation, it is not dangerous when dry (and in a car).
One of the risks is the presence of slow sightseeing drivers and even tour buses (no joke!). Again, self preservation will protect you from these hazards. One must be extremely aware during touring sessions (the only time most of us will drive on 'The Ring). Another risk is being overtaken at extremely high speed differentials. One must pay attention to his mirrors and track position (all passing on the left, and moving left in front of a passing car will be 100% your fault by German law). Again self preservation is key.
The armco is ever present and fairly tall, so you can have a heck of a wreck in a modern car and walk away. Unless a driver chooses to really get after it (and escepially if he is mixing it up with other drivers), I would not call driving there "scary". For sure, one should not drive it like a typical American track with only a few turns and lots of runoff until he has memorized the track and acquired much skill, and even then not with slow traffic present.
Having said all that, I heartily recommend all track junkies make the trip and drive the Nordschleife at least once. It is a life changing experience!
02-09-2010, 08:31 PM
#7
Racer
you'd have to run a million laps there to really know it, otherwise you are flying by the seat of your pants and that place allows for some serious speed in spots.
02-09-2010, 09:58 PM
#8
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From speaking with the folks who run RSR Nurburg, a great place to rent a track ready ride for 'The Ring, the official count is 2-3 per year. When you count in road deaths from the area (that most likely occured on the Nordschleife), it is probably 12 -18 per year. Since much of the traffic is in the summer, maybe they have some short periods where they average one per week.
Almost all of the deaths are motorcycles riders. I have driven during busy weekend days where I saw 2 motorcycle wrecks in a lap! One per lap is common. Before freaking out, consider that this is a public road, and a very fast and technical one. Young males, with high powered bikes, are prone to drive beyond their talents. 'The Ring has many fast over hill sections that are followed by turns, and there is no run-off. If one drives flat over a hill assuming he has a straight on the other side, he will crash. If a motorcycle hits the armco, he may die because the track is fast. It's really that simple. If one displays self preservation, it is not dangerous when dry (and in a car).
One of the risks is the presence of slow sightseeing drivers and even tour buses (no joke!). Again, self preservation will protect you from these hazards. One must be extremely aware during touring sessions (the only time most of us will drive on 'The Ring). Another risk is being overtaken at extremely high speed differentials. One must pay attention to his mirrors and track position (all passing on the left, and moving left in front of a passing car will be 100% your fault by German law). Again self preservation is key.
The armco is ever present and fairly tall, so you can have a heck of a wreck in a modern car and walk away. Unless a driver chooses to really get after it (and escepially if he is mixing it up with other drivers), I would not call driving there "scary". For sure, one should not drive it like a typical American track with only a few turns and lots of runoff until he has memorized the track and acquired much skill, and even then not with slow traffic present.
Having said all that, I heartily recommend all track junkies make the trip and drive the Nordschleife at least once. It is a life changing experience!
Almost all of the deaths are motorcycles riders. I have driven during busy weekend days where I saw 2 motorcycle wrecks in a lap! One per lap is common. Before freaking out, consider that this is a public road, and a very fast and technical one. Young males, with high powered bikes, are prone to drive beyond their talents. 'The Ring has many fast over hill sections that are followed by turns, and there is no run-off. If one drives flat over a hill assuming he has a straight on the other side, he will crash. If a motorcycle hits the armco, he may die because the track is fast. It's really that simple. If one displays self preservation, it is not dangerous when dry (and in a car).
One of the risks is the presence of slow sightseeing drivers and even tour buses (no joke!). Again, self preservation will protect you from these hazards. One must be extremely aware during touring sessions (the only time most of us will drive on 'The Ring). Another risk is being overtaken at extremely high speed differentials. One must pay attention to his mirrors and track position (all passing on the left, and moving left in front of a passing car will be 100% your fault by German law). Again self preservation is key.
The armco is ever present and fairly tall, so you can have a heck of a wreck in a modern car and walk away. Unless a driver chooses to really get after it (and escepially if he is mixing it up with other drivers), I would not call driving there "scary". For sure, one should not drive it like a typical American track with only a few turns and lots of runoff until he has memorized the track and acquired much skill, and even then not with slow traffic present.
Having said all that, I heartily recommend all track junkies make the trip and drive the Nordschleife at least once. It is a life changing experience!
Been there a couple times. Ya definitely need to monitor your rear view mirror there. There's a big speed differential between a lot of the vehicles.
02-10-2010, 10:10 AM
#11
Melting Slicks
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There's a reason Niki Lauda called the place "Green Death", like any track if you don't respect it bad things happen.
I think I'll just take a couple laps with Sabine to get up to speed.
I think I'll just take a couple laps with Sabine to get up to speed.
02-10-2010, 01:08 PM
#13
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Sometimes things get a little crazy at the Ring. This has been posted on the forum before http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xwc5...733&feature=iv
Check the person's head sticking out of the passenger side window after the rollover at about 35 seconds into the video and the guy falling out his Beetle at about 1:35.
Also shows why you need to have somebody show you how to drive when doing track events. Most of those crashes were probably from not knowing how to drive.
Bill
Check the person's head sticking out of the passenger side window after the rollover at about 35 seconds into the video and the guy falling out his Beetle at about 1:35.
Also shows why you need to have somebody show you how to drive when doing track events. Most of those crashes were probably from not knowing how to drive.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 02-10-2010 at 01:14 PM.
02-10-2010, 01:42 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
the trick with the Nurburgring is that it only counts if you die on the track. If you die in the helicopter 5 feet over the track, the track counts it as an injury not a fatality, so no one really knows how many people die there every year. The estimates i saw were anything from 5-50 a year. I was there from mid 2004 and ran most of the 2005 season and was on hand for 3 fatal wrecks. Track was closed for an hour or so to clean up the mess and then you go on with your day.
Brian...yep, unsupervised. The 1st lap i ever did on any road course was on the nurburgring alone in a corvette. For cars, they just have to have a current licence plate on them, no tech or anything and you don't have to wear a helmet or have any safety gear beyond a seatbelt.
For anyone else that's never been....JUST GO. Find a way and do it before you die.
Brian...yep, unsupervised. The 1st lap i ever did on any road course was on the nurburgring alone in a corvette. For cars, they just have to have a current licence plate on them, no tech or anything and you don't have to wear a helmet or have any safety gear beyond a seatbelt.
For anyone else that's never been....JUST GO. Find a way and do it before you die.
02-10-2010, 02:00 PM
#16
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Yep. It's just a fancy toll road. Pay the toll at the nearby office (IIRC, it was around 18 euro per lap), shove your (prepaid) card in the reader machine (just like at a parking garage) and the gate opens. Fourteen miles later you do the same thing. (I'm in the silver Audi.)
02-10-2010, 02:08 PM
#17
That actually sounds like a very low rate of wrecks/injuries given that the access is so easy.
Imagine your local roadcourse being open to anyone who can just show up on the weekend and pay $20, no helmets/training required. It would be a bloodbath.
Imagine your local roadcourse being open to anyone who can just show up on the weekend and pay $20, no helmets/training required. It would be a bloodbath.
02-10-2010, 04:04 PM
#18
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More informed types are invited to chime in to correct me if I'm wrong about some of the details here.
02-10-2010, 04:13 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
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10-12 years ago, the death numbers where 50-65 a year, now its down to less than 12.
TWO reasons:
1. There is less stupid drivers to kill
2. And they now only count dead ON track, if you die in helicopter or hospital, they dont count.
Track is THE most fantastic in the world, we need to have a Corvette
Z06 retake the record from ACR.
(not counting Gumbert and Radical as production cars)
maybe August 3rd
regards
Rune
TWO reasons:
1. There is less stupid drivers to kill
2. And they now only count dead ON track, if you die in helicopter or hospital, they dont count.
Track is THE most fantastic in the world, we need to have a Corvette
Z06 retake the record from ACR.
(not counting Gumbert and Radical as production cars)
maybe August 3rd
regards
Rune
