I'm hopelessly out of touch. I can't find an "R1" on your website.
710 vs r6
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,776
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From: 877-522-8473 ext. 4362
St. Jude Donor '11-'12
A6 = extremely fast for AutoX
R6 = road race and are faster thwn the V710
V710 = lasts significantly longer than the R6
R1 = faster than the4 R6 and lasts longer
C51 & C71 = I have not ran them yet due to medical issues
R6 = road race and are faster thwn the V710
V710 = lasts significantly longer than the R6
R1 = faster than the4 R6 and lasts longer
C51 & C71 = I have not ran them yet due to medical issues
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 50,808
Likes: 10
From: Buy USA products! Check the label! Employ Americans
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,776
Likes: 147
From: 877-522-8473 ext. 4362
St. Jude Donor '11-'12
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=g-Force+R1
The g-Force R1 radial is BFGoodrich's Track & Competition DOT racing tire developed for prepared vehicles looking for race- and time attack-winning performance, as well as track-day drivers seeking predictable grip that is comfortable to drive at the limit. The g-Force R1 radial is designed to offer best in class dry grip, cornering power, steering response and turn-in precision to inspire driver confidence for the quickest times lap after lap.
The g-Force R1 uses a competition tread compound molded into a symmetric, non-directional, semi-slick tread design with just 4/32" of beginning tread depth eliminating the need for shaving. Rubber bridges are molded repeatedly across the two DOT-required circumferential grooves to promote even wear and further the tire's slick-like performance. While the tires require minimal scuffing, heat cycling is recommended to further enhance consistency and wear. The tread compound warms up quickly and operates over a wide temperature range to provide predictable grip that is forgiving and easy to drive at the limit. The symmetric, semi-slick tread design allows the g-Force R1 to rotate in different directions and be used at different vehicle wheel positions to maximize treadlife. The tire's internal structure includes twin steel belts reinforced by a spirally wrapped polyamide cord on top of a two-ply nylon cord carcass.
The g-Force R1 uses a competition tread compound molded into a symmetric, non-directional, semi-slick tread design with just 4/32" of beginning tread depth eliminating the need for shaving. Rubber bridges are molded repeatedly across the two DOT-required circumferential grooves to promote even wear and further the tire's slick-like performance. While the tires require minimal scuffing, heat cycling is recommended to further enhance consistency and wear. The tread compound warms up quickly and operates over a wide temperature range to provide predictable grip that is forgiving and easy to drive at the limit. The symmetric, semi-slick tread design allows the g-Force R1 to rotate in different directions and be used at different vehicle wheel positions to maximize treadlife. The tire's internal structure includes twin steel belts reinforced by a spirally wrapped polyamide cord on top of a two-ply nylon cord carcass.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,003
Likes: 89
From: Indy IN
Bruce,
The C91 is a relatively new compound that is softer and more sticky than the C71. It is available in relatively few sizes, and right now they don't have sizes for C5's and C6's. The do have 275's in a 17 and 18, so maybe you could use them on a C4 in stock, but that's probably it for Vettes right now...
Tires are one thing that are pretty always in flux...
I've never been all that happy with the life of the Hoosiers. Not much rubber on a really stiff carcas, so if you slide around at all you eat them up, and they are also terribly expensive. They aren't really any faster than the BFG's of the old days and don't last nearly as long. I was talking to the BFG engineers at the NCCC convention 5 years ago and they said they couldn't reproduce the old compounds that worked so well, even if they wanted to. The stuff to make them just wasn't available any more, so we got what we got.
Sports car racing tires are a pretty small segment of the market, and the fastest tire can set the price point. For as much as we pay for tires you would think we could get either better life or lower cost, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. Our friends at Hoosier are out to make a nice buck on each set and until something gets faster they will continue to stick it to us.
The C91 is a relatively new compound that is softer and more sticky than the C71. It is available in relatively few sizes, and right now they don't have sizes for C5's and C6's. The do have 275's in a 17 and 18, so maybe you could use them on a C4 in stock, but that's probably it for Vettes right now...
Tires are one thing that are pretty always in flux...
I've never been all that happy with the life of the Hoosiers. Not much rubber on a really stiff carcas, so if you slide around at all you eat them up, and they are also terribly expensive. They aren't really any faster than the BFG's of the old days and don't last nearly as long. I was talking to the BFG engineers at the NCCC convention 5 years ago and they said they couldn't reproduce the old compounds that worked so well, even if they wanted to. The stuff to make them just wasn't available any more, so we got what we got.
Sports car racing tires are a pretty small segment of the market, and the fastest tire can set the price point. For as much as we pay for tires you would think we could get either better life or lower cost, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. Our friends at Hoosier are out to make a nice buck on each set and until something gets faster they will continue to stick it to us.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 7
[QUOTE=R1 = faster than the4 R6 and lasts longer[/QUOTE]
Shocked to see you say this.. I run the R6 and I have a buddy who runs the R1 on our very similiar set up M3's and the Hoosier is far and away a stickier tire. R1 one lasts longer but doesn't have the ultimate grip of the R6 in our application.
One more consideration on the Hoosiers is they are more sensative to alignment. If you run under 3.0 negative camber on the front they will burn up in 10-12 heat cycles. Once you get over 3 and into the -3.5 camber range I am seeing around 20 cycles.
I do drive the car hard and brake accordingly so I am the short end of the wear cycle.
Shocked to see you say this.. I run the R6 and I have a buddy who runs the R1 on our very similiar set up M3's and the Hoosier is far and away a stickier tire. R1 one lasts longer but doesn't have the ultimate grip of the R6 in our application.
One more consideration on the Hoosiers is they are more sensative to alignment. If you run under 3.0 negative camber on the front they will burn up in 10-12 heat cycles. Once you get over 3 and into the -3.5 camber range I am seeing around 20 cycles.
I do drive the car hard and brake accordingly so I am the short end of the wear cycle.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,434
Likes: 18
From: Braselton GA
IMHO compound trumps tire width, and the C91 275/18 fit/work well on the 10.5x18 OEM rear Z wheels, and IMHO no other tire size/tire is going to beat it, unless maybe you ran it on a really really heavy car. And they last forever, amazingly.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Macon, GA
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 50,808
Likes: 10
From: Buy USA products! Check the label! Employ Americans
Hoosier will last me longer as I spin and slide them less that 710 because they have more grip. I doubt Hoosier will sit on it's hands when others mover forward to better tires.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
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From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
A6s Fastest Road Race and standard tire for NASA ST2
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,062
Likes: 9,825
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
I used old 710s on my C5Z for several years. I would buy them from forum members with 3 or 4 heat cycles on them and then use them for HPDE and autocross for a season or more. They were always corded when I got rid of them. The last year I had the car I went to a set of R6s. I never could get those tires to work well. I ran cold pressures from the low 20s to the high 20s (where I used to set the 710s). The car would slide around and just didn't work well with those tires. My lap times with new R6s were far worse than my lap times with well worn out 710s. The car got better over time with changes to wheel alignment and my getting used to the tires but they just didn't do well for me.
For my money right now I would have to go with the 710s for HPDEs. Although they may not be as fast as another tire at first they will definitely be faster after the second day (maybe after the first day) and will last many days longer.
Bill
For my money right now I would have to go with the 710s for HPDEs. Although they may not be as fast as another tire at first they will definitely be faster after the second day (maybe after the first day) and will last many days longer.
Bill
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,251
Likes: 16
From: Phoenix Arizona
I used old 710s on my C5Z for several years. I would buy them from forum members with 3 or 4 heat cycles on them and then use them for HPDE and autocross for a season or more. They were always corded when I got rid of them. The last year I had the car I went to a set of R6s. I never could get those tires to work well. I ran cold pressures from the low 20s to the high 20s (where I used to set the 710s). The car would slide around and just didn't work well with those tires. My lap times with new R6s were far worse than my lap times with well worn out 710s. The car got better over time with changes to wheel alignment and my getting used to the tires but they just didn't do well for me.
For my money right now I would have to go with the 710s for HPDEs. Although they may not be as fast as another tire at first they will definitely be faster after the second day (maybe after the first day) and will last many days longer.
Bill
For my money right now I would have to go with the 710s for HPDEs. Although they may not be as fast as another tire at first they will definitely be faster after the second day (maybe after the first day) and will last many days longer.
Bill
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,776
Likes: 147
From: 877-522-8473 ext. 4362
St. Jude Donor '11-'12
sounds like the difference maker is behind the wheel. In testing (same car / same driver) the BFG R1 wins out
While the Hoosier R6 tires provided the expected responsiveness and grip, the BFGoodrich g-Force R1 radials provided quicker response and higher levels of grip, as well as more consistency lap after lap. Additionally, the g-Force R1 radials were more responsive to begin with, as they immediately began to carve through the transitions of the left-right-left s-turn and into the steady-state corners. This combination of characteristics allowed the drivers to run the g-Force R1 radials with greater confidence, reduced the variations in lap times and resulted in lap times that averaged just over one second faster than the Hoosier R6 tires on the approximate 45-second, nine-turn course. While the number of laps run didn't wear out any of the tires, the BFGoodrich g-Force R1 radials appeared to have less treadwear as well.
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,776
Likes: 147
From: 877-522-8473 ext. 4362
St. Jude Donor '11-'12
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,003
Likes: 89
From: Indy IN
I agree, compound trumps everything once you have "enough" tire width. I have a concern that a 275 on the back of a C5Z might not be "enough", but if people try it and it works on Vette, then it works and you can't argue with it.... Also I'd probably have to change setup to get it to match with a 275-17 up front, but I don't see that as a big deal, a bit more roll stiffness in the front should take car of that.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 671
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati Ohio
I don't agree with that Luke.. My ST2 car will run in a race for 40 minutes and the tires are still good. Danny Popp has the ST2 lap record @ MO in the 17th or 18th lap in July last year on A6's in my car.
Hoosier makes the best tire out there on the market. If anyone of the guys looking to buy tires wants to verify this go to any of the NASA or SCCA road races (even the Auto-x as well) and take a look at what the fast guys are running. It will be Hoosier Tires.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 1
From: Chandler AZ