Let me ask another way, who's LS3 HASN"T blown up on the track
#121
Le Mans Master
The LS2 is meh... but the LS3 is a nice step up in power. You can get 430 rwhp out of some long-tubes and a tune which is what my old Z06 with a moderate cam made (G5-X2 making 436 rwhp).
It's just they started to show issues when raced in T1.... Chris (White Knight) was one of the first go move from a C5Z to a LS3 car and had all kinds of issues. If you read this thread you'll see that GM development worked with him on trying to fix the LS3, but ended up slapping the LS7 dry sump on it.
It's just they started to show issues when raced in T1.... Chris (White Knight) was one of the first go move from a C5Z to a LS3 car and had all kinds of issues. If you read this thread you'll see that GM development worked with him on trying to fix the LS3, but ended up slapping the LS7 dry sump on it.
Still have love for my '08 Vette, though it's gone now. Check out this 0-120mph vid I did with only mods being intake, headers, exhaust, and good custom tune. She was a screamer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMecChZGLiQ
#122
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14
So the new GS is essentially an LS3 with a dry sump kit similar to the LS7? If that's the case--what's stopping someone from ordering the parts that come on the GS and having a non-GS with the GS dry sump? From my limited knowledge, the LS3 in the grand sport is no different than the one in the base C6, or is that not the case?
#123
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14
Very, very interesting. Didn't realize that (though I did read the reference earlier in this thread to the Grand Sport having the dry sump as being because of the oil deficiency), because seriously how many guys will push their LS3 to the level that White Knight did to his car? Heck, I thought I was abusing my LS3 with my 'hard' track days, but I guess there is a whole other level of 'abuse' with TT/WTW, etc. i.e. real racing, not track days.
Still have love for my '08 Vette, though it's gone now. Check out this 0-120mph vid I did with only mods being intake, headers, exhaust, and good custom tune. She was a screamer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMecChZGLiQ
Still have love for my '08 Vette, though it's gone now. Check out this 0-120mph vid I did with only mods being intake, headers, exhaust, and good custom tune. She was a screamer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMecChZGLiQ
#124
Safety Car
Still have love for my '08 Vette, though it's gone now. Check out this 0-120mph vid I did with only mods being intake, headers, exhaust, and good custom tune. She was a screamer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMecChZGLiQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMecChZGLiQ
#125
Melting Slicks
It's just they started to show issues when raced in T1.... Chris (White Knight) was one of the first go move from a C5Z to a LS3 car and had all kinds of issues. If you read this thread you'll see that GM development worked with him on trying to fix the LS3, but ended up slapping the LS7 dry sump on it.
Yes, you could probably go with the stock Grand Sport dry sump, but after all is said and done, you'd probably spend about the same as the ARE system. And from all the data and engineers I've talked to, the ARE system is better.
And the major problem with the LS3 (without a sump) is on left turns. That's where the pressure drops well below the GM recommended psi for the bearings. kaboom.
#126
Le Mans Master
#128
A car that is "driven" on the track needs a real dry sump sysytem. The factory Z06 and LS3 systems are great marketing tools and they can be used as a start in building a good system. Easiest way to make either one into a track ready system is call A.R.E. and get the right parts. I think a new tank and improvements to the pan are the key items. Anyway you look at it for less then a new set of wheels you will be able to keep your engine together. If you are willing to work a system will come in less. My highest cost item for my LS2 race car system was the pan. Everything else was bought by shopping around and asking about used parts. I ended up getting everything but the pan used and the tank was a brand new unit that a racer bought but did not fit.
#129
Seeing that I have over 37000miles (in 14 months) on my H/C/I LS3 spinning 7100rpm's, with about 30 full trackdays, 30+ auto-x events and 2 coast-2-coast trips with no issues I thought I would chime in
Our shop car has been running like a champ and seriously has had zero issues whatsoever. Believe me when I say she has been run HARD. I shift around 7000rpm at the track, and am running on R888's with a full suspension.
Heading to Sebring this weekend, hope I didn't jinx it now haha
/Erik
Our shop car has been running like a champ and seriously has had zero issues whatsoever. Believe me when I say she has been run HARD. I shift around 7000rpm at the track, and am running on R888's with a full suspension.
Heading to Sebring this weekend, hope I didn't jinx it now haha
/Erik
#130
Safety Car
For every one that blew up there are probably 100 that didn't. It's the reader's money and choice to take steps to prevent an issue. This reader will take precautions before I run my LS2 "hard" on the track.
#132
Le Mans Master
One more time: it's not running it "HARD" and shifting at redline. It's hi-g sustained left hand turns.
For every one that blew up there are probably 100 that didn't. It's the reader's money and choice to take steps to prevent an issue. This reader will take precautions before I run my LS2 "hard" on the track.
For every one that blew up there are probably 100 that didn't. It's the reader's money and choice to take steps to prevent an issue. This reader will take precautions before I run my LS2 "hard" on the track.
For the 1% that truly race the car WTW or TT, then obviously some oiling/cooling improvements are necessary to prevent a shuttle launch on the engine. Otherwise, I think the KISS principle applies for weekend track day guys, don't spend crazy $$$$ on dry sumps, brake coolers, etc.... just put good brake fluid in, add the extra quart, do some track brake pads, maybe some R-comps if you're serious and go out and have some fun.
#133
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14
I guess the reason I jumped into this thread is I didn't want people to misperceive the LS2/LS3 as weak. I think you're right that for 99% of people who don't do crazy internal engine mods/tunes with the right tune, the car will hold up as well on the track as pretty much any car on the market besides a few P-cars and maybe the newer Vipers. It's a robust car for 99% of people who will do track days as long as you're smart about it.
For the 1% that truly race the car WTW or TT, then obviously some oiling/cooling improvements are necessary to prevent a shuttle launch on the engine. Otherwise, I think the KISS principle applies for weekend track day guys, don't spend crazy $$$$ on dry sumps, brake coolers, etc.... just put good brake fluid in, add the extra quart, do some track brake pads, maybe some R-comps if you're serious and go out and have some fun.
For the 1% that truly race the car WTW or TT, then obviously some oiling/cooling improvements are necessary to prevent a shuttle launch on the engine. Otherwise, I think the KISS principle applies for weekend track day guys, don't spend crazy $$$$ on dry sumps, brake coolers, etc.... just put good brake fluid in, add the extra quart, do some track brake pads, maybe some R-comps if you're serious and go out and have some fun.
#134
Le Mans Master
If by race, you actually meant a weekend track day kind of guy with basic IHE mods, then you fall into the 99% category based on my personal experience. Factory tune (or very good/reputable aftermarket tune), extra quart of oil, no internal engine mods, and you're not running massive race slicks, you will be fine, almost guaranteed.
#135
Safety Car
I'm not about to say that engine mods won't hurt the motor, but that's not what is causing these failures.
#136
Safety Car
Check out these threads:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1572096120-post14.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...es-or-not.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...ng-issues.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...l-in-scca.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...he-intake.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1572096120-post14.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...es-or-not.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...ng-issues.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...l-in-scca.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...he-intake.html
Last edited by ScaryFast; 05-25-2011 at 02:48 PM.
#137
Melting Slicks
Actually we went with the ARE dry sump system.
Yes, you could probably go with the stock Grand Sport dry sump, but after all is said and done, you'd probably spend about the same as the ARE system. And from all the data and engineers I've talked to, the ARE system is better.
And the major problem with the LS3 (without a sump) is on left turns. That's where the pressure drops well below the GM recommended psi for the bearings. kaboom.
Yes, you could probably go with the stock Grand Sport dry sump, but after all is said and done, you'd probably spend about the same as the ARE system. And from all the data and engineers I've talked to, the ARE system is better.
And the major problem with the LS3 (without a sump) is on left turns. That's where the pressure drops well below the GM recommended psi for the bearings. kaboom.
FWIW--I never had a lick of trouble from my LS6 motor running Kuhmo V700s, shaved, in about 2 years of track days. I always got the impression the LS6 motors were practically bulletproof--no?
FWIW II--It seems Chevy would have been smart to offer a real racing dry sump as an option (scavenge tank plus baffles plus multiple pumps). I've never understood why this would not be a option for this kind of car--GM should charge enough to pay for the addition and put it in the options sheet. Build it and people will pay!
Last edited by quick04Z06; 05-25-2011 at 03:41 PM.