JUIC3D

Good info Chris, thank you again.

I've debated selling my C6 coupe for awhile but have really grown to love the car and don't really want to sell it.

That leaves me with needing a dry sump when/if I decide I want to road race.

I've looked into the idea of swapping out the crank/oiling system/oil pan/etc to add in a factory GS/Z06 dry sump. Do you have any thoughts on that?

I don't want to lose my a/c so some of the aftermarket dry sump kits are out. I've looked into the AVIAD kit that bolts on the passenger side head but I'm not certain on which kit would fit my goals the best.

wtknght1

What you are trying to do is have a hybrid - a car for both the street and track. I tried that for a while and it's OK for just track days and school, but not for racing...if you want to win that is.

So here's the deal. If you just want to use your car for track days and schools, then use the stock GS/Z06 system. But if you plan to race, you'll have to scrap the a/c...because of the extra weight and drag placed on the engine.

I've got the ARE system on mine and I think Jason Berkeley is using the AVIAD. They both work well and are better than the stock GS/Z06 version. But you've got to make a decision on what you want to do with the car. Schools = keep the a/c and use the stock system.
Race = drop the a/c and go with any dry sump system. If you do plan to race though, and want to win, you'll want the best!

JUIC3D

Thanks again Chris.

I would just like to take some driving classes and spend some time around Sebring when they have open track days.

My vette is my daily driver and as such, won't be turned into a racecar anytime soon.

Regarding the drag on the engine, the a/c uses a separate belt so why couldn't I just disconnect that belt when I was doing any form of racing and eliminate the drag on the motor. Also, regarding the weight, I can't imagine the a/c weighing more than 50-75lbs total so what is it that I'm missing?

I'm not trying to dispute anything you're saying, I'm just trying to make sure I understand.

Also, what is it about the ARE and AVIAD systems that perform so much better than the GS/Z06/ZR1 systems? Can the OEM systems fail or do they just not provide enough oil pressure/cooling/etc?

Thanks again for the info, I love this stuff

wtknght1

As I said, it just depends on how competitive you want to be. If we are equal drivers and the cars are equally prepared, etc...but you are 50-75 lbs heavier, then you will be .5 to .75 seconds per lap slower than me. Plus, your weight is up front and high (behind the dash pad too). After a 20 lap race, you won't even be in my rear view mirror. You'll have higher tire wear rate, more brake wear, etc, etc, etc. How competitive do you want to be?

The stock system is good, but the ARE (for instance) is a 3-stage scavenge system. In other words, there is a slight vacuum inside the engine so you won't have those internal pressure problems, reduced ring flutter, etc. = more consistent power! Then there's the reduced foaming benefit, slightly higher capacity, better cooling and so on.

If you're just using it for track days, then the stock system may be for you. But if you're trying to race and be competitive, there are better options.

JUIC3D

Great info, thanks again Chris.

That makes a lot more sense. I guess I never realized how important weight could me.

For now, I'm just wanting to make some hot laps around a track and push the car to the higher limits.

On a side note, do you have any pictures, details on your LS3 racecar? I'd love to see some detailed pictures of it in full race trim etc.

wtknght1

Sure. Just gimme a call. 678.378.3259

Addicted to track

I just wanted to let you know you don't have to pull the belt off when tracking your vette. I understand why dropping the weight is key for race only cars but for street / track cars, the compressor has a clutch on it. Therefore the only drag is the belt turning the clutch. If you do have the AC on when your on the track, there is also a calibration in the system that will turn off the AC under high throttle conditions.

yakisoba

I ran with my AC for a long time. I finally pulled it for the weight and cooling benefits (the condenser removal helped the airflow up front quite a bit).

I run one of the lightest corvettes in my division, and it pays off. Less brake wear, less tire wear, lower lap times.

JUIC3D

Details on the car?

froggy47

Plus it's nice to have it on while you are waiting for your session to go off. Different for race only cars.

gkmccready

I'm picking up my '06 LS2 car with a brand new LS2 this afternoon... also on R888s pulling around 1.2G on the left hand T2 at Thunderhill. 26,000 miles and maybe 20 hours of track time in that?

TRACKMAN2

even I cant blow up a ls6!!!!

NoOne

Dead stock they should be OK with 1 quart over?

Taking a buddy with a 08 LS3 to a HPDE. Dead stock, new driver, street tires. The most aggressive it will get driven will be with me taking him around the track.

wtknght1

You should be OK with an all stock system. Watch the oil temps though if you start to push it. If you see 300+, back it off for a lap or two.

383

My goal is to keep my LS2 alive and well during a couple of HPDE's and drive it home. Ill be using a street tire (PS2 Zp's or Supercars) so if the "Batwing" pan will help and I upgrade the cooler, that fits my budget better. I cant really afford a dry sump so I'm looking for a budget fix for occasional track use. Do you think the high oil temps added to the low pressure problem during testing? Oil lost its viscosity at +300*?

383

Are the 2 types of "batwing" pans the same? Other than the C5 being 2 piece and the C6 being solid? Witch did you test? I cant find the oil pan for sale anywhere when I type the part # from GM racing.(12630477?)

wtknght1

No, the C5 and C6 pans are different. I don't know if you can even find those things any more. The only ones I've ever seen were hand-made ones by the GM engineers. Once they (SCCA) approved the dry sump, I gave my old pan to Joe at Phoenix and they installed the sump. You may want to check with Phoenix and see if they have one.

I'm sure that the high oil temps affected the pressures a little, but the big problem was just the poor stock oiling system...for anything other than about 1.1Gs. All that oil pooling in the heads and the ring blow-by was just terrible for pressures and temps. The sump does solve it.

96CollectorSport

Mike Tracy Sr. had one for sale a while back - so did Joe at Pheonix.

Here's the for sale thread for Mikes a while back.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-p...2-and-ls3.html

383

Thanks for the link but I think it sold. It seems perfect for what Ill be doing. What is a good price for a used dry sump? Is a dry sump usually ok to buy used?
What is involved in the install of a dry sump? any drilling or machine work to the block?

wtknght1

I'd be amazed if you could find a used sump. Once they are installed on a car/engine, they usually stay there. If they ever come off, it's because of engine damage of some sort. In that case, the external parts (sump, lines, coolers, etc.) are usually thrown away because of all the little bits & pieces of engine debris are nearly impossible to get clean enough for re-use. I know I took probably 6-8 hours cleaning out my oil cooler, the lines, scavenge pump, pan, tank, etc. when my engine let go at the runoffs in 2010. Even after all that, we still find some tiny bits in the oil filter.

The ARE system is a bolt on system, but the hard part is/are the different configuration(s) of the lines and fittings. Just about everyone has their own coolers, etc., so that complicates things. You can easily spend $1500 on lines, fittings and coolers...and generally, there are no "one size fits all" set-ups. I think the Phoenix guys put together a package that comes pretty close though.