Want to try out HPDE, how much prep? The sticky topic is intimidating...
03-18-2014, 06:53 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Want to try out HPDE, how much prep? The sticky topic is intimidating...
Good morning gents,
I just picked up a low mile, completely stock '02 Z06. I want to try out some HPDE type events this summer. I've reviewed the very detailed C5 racing sticky topic. There is a ton of information there and its a bit intimidating when preparing to go to your first event.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...e-learned.html
What is important to be safe when you are a novice first timer? After reading this I feel like I could spend a small fortune and spend a year getting ready.
Whats needed to go and try it out?
My current plans are:
Sa2010 helmet
Motul RFB600 fluid
Braided brake lines
Be humble in my approach
My car has the original tires and brake pads.
I just picked up a low mile, completely stock '02 Z06. I want to try out some HPDE type events this summer. I've reviewed the very detailed C5 racing sticky topic. There is a ton of information there and its a bit intimidating when preparing to go to your first event.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...e-learned.html
What is important to be safe when you are a novice first timer? After reading this I feel like I could spend a small fortune and spend a year getting ready.
Whats needed to go and try it out?
My current plans are:
Sa2010 helmet
Motul RFB600 fluid
Braided brake lines
Be humble in my approach
My car has the original tires and brake pads.
03-18-2014, 07:32 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Dan
I too have an 02 Z06.
As a novice driver, adding to your current plans, I would recommend changing the brake pads to a more aggressive compound. When I started doing HPDE's as novice, I used the Hawk HP Plus pad.
http://www.hawkperformance.com/perfo...t/pads/hp-plus
If the OEM tires are in good shape, you can still use those.
Just be warned, you WILL spend a small fortune as this is an expensive hobby. When I stop and think about all the money I have dumped into my car in parts and events I wish I never heard of HPDE's.
I too have an 02 Z06.
As a novice driver, adding to your current plans, I would recommend changing the brake pads to a more aggressive compound. When I started doing HPDE's as novice, I used the Hawk HP Plus pad.
http://www.hawkperformance.com/perfo...t/pads/hp-plus
If the OEM tires are in good shape, you can still use those.
Just be warned, you WILL spend a small fortune as this is an expensive hobby. When I stop and think about all the money I have dumped into my car in parts and events I wish I never heard of HPDE's.
03-18-2014, 07:34 AM
#3
Racer
Member Since: May 2010
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just my two cents...
Great start! Although I doubt you would need SS lines, a new set of factory rubber lines would be fine if the ones on your car look deteriorated.
Sounds like you should replace the tires. 12-year old tires should not be trusted. Make sure you have at least 50% brake pads left.
Other than confirming general maintenance is up to date, this is all you need to start enjoying the sport! After a few weekends you might want to start looking through that thread for advice on upgrades for safety, durability, etc.
Sounds like you should replace the tires. 12-year old tires should not be trusted. Make sure you have at least 50% brake pads left.
Other than confirming general maintenance is up to date, this is all you need to start enjoying the sport! After a few weekends you might want to start looking through that thread for advice on upgrades for safety, durability, etc.
Last edited by Hat_Trick_Hokie; 03-18-2014 at 08:09 AM.
03-18-2014, 08:30 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Congrats on the purchase, very good car, undeniably one of the best HPDE cars you can buy.
If you are interested, Cumberland Valley Corvette Club will be hosting an event at Pocono on May 3-4. Its an excellent introductory event on the Pocono North course - part of the track is in the infield and part on Nascar turn 3. Several of us on the forum go to this event every year. I'm not certain if there are still slots available but please contact Dave Walter (davidjwalter@verizon.net) to find out.
If you are interested, Cumberland Valley Corvette Club will be hosting an event at Pocono on May 3-4. Its an excellent introductory event on the Pocono North course - part of the track is in the infield and part on Nascar turn 3. Several of us on the forum go to this event every year. I'm not certain if there are still slots available but please contact Dave Walter (davidjwalter@verizon.net) to find out.
03-18-2014, 08:44 AM
#5
Advanced
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Clayton NC
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I started the hobby last March in a 2004 Z06 and really had done nothing but check all of the original components. I flushed all of the brake fluid (but still used cheap DOT3), checked the pads (stock pads), and already had fairly new tires. At my first event I wasn't pushing the car hard enough to really find any limits except myself. I wish I had known to replace the clutch fluid, because I did run into a problem and the clutch pedal stuck to the floor. Some fellow Corvette folks in the paddock showed me what happened and shared a turkey baster and I was back on track.
I have now done 10 HPDEs and will forever be hooked. After the 2nd or 3rd event I started running down the list from the sticky to figure out what I needed. I still haven't even done the majority of the list.
You really can ease into this slowly and see where it goes.
I have now done 10 HPDEs and will forever be hooked. After the 2nd or 3rd event I started running down the list from the sticky to figure out what I needed. I still haven't even done the majority of the list.
You really can ease into this slowly and see where it goes.
03-18-2014, 08:52 AM
#6
Racer
Here's NASA inspection form - good starting point for car prep
http://www.nasaproracing.com/forms/form_hpde_tech.pdf
In addition to car prep, make sure you know what the dress code is. Some groups mandate long sleeve shirts and pants. For shoes, thin sole is preferred (you don't need fancy racing shoes). Bring water and sun screen.
http://www.nasaproracing.com/forms/form_hpde_tech.pdf
In addition to car prep, make sure you know what the dress code is. Some groups mandate long sleeve shirts and pants. For shoes, thin sole is preferred (you don't need fancy racing shoes). Bring water and sun screen.
03-18-2014, 09:18 AM
#7
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,096
Received 8,930 Likes
on
5,334 Posts
With your car this is what I would do to get ready.
1. New tires. The tires on the car should be ditched even if you never do an HPDE. Once you get the tires put several hundred miles on them.
2. Hawk HP+ Pads are great for the track and autocross but you may want to save your old pads to use on the street.
3. Flush the brake fluid with a good high dry boiling point DOT 3 or 4 fluid. Low cost fluid like Ford Super Duty DOT3 has a dry boiling point of 500 deg. F. It used to be known as the best kept secret in Motorsports but the dry boiling point dropped from 550 to 500 about 6 years ago. It should be fine for novice level driving with HP+ pads.
4. I don't know the state of your car's other fluids so I would make sure they are all good:
A. Ensure the antifreeze is up to date. Dexcool is good for 5 years so your car should have had its coolant changed in 2007 and 2012. If so then it should be good to go.
B. Fresh oil with an added quart after you are sure it is full. GM recommends adding an extra quart when tracking the car. I never bothered with removing the extra quart after an event. Never seemed to bother either my 97 or 03Z which I ran for 6 years each.
C. Transmission fluid make sure it is fresh and full.
D. Diff fluid. The GM fluid is a synthetic and there are no recommendations on changing it over the lifetime of the car. Check to make sure it is full and it is up to you whether you have it changed or not.
5. Have a qualified mechanic give the car a good inspection (PA state inspection level is good if the mechanic actually checks everything). Talk to the mechanic about how you are planning on using the car and that you want to make sure it doesn't break. Of concern are wheel bearings, tie rod ends, control arm bushings and sway bar bushings and end links. Depending on how many miles are on the car you may want to have him remove the sway bar bushings and inspect the sway bars where they rub against the bushings. The ones on my 03Z were severely worn when I checked them the fist time. The car had been driven a lot in a sandy area and the sand had abraded the bars where they rubbed inside the bushings.
7. Make sure all of your external lights work.
8. Go and have fun. When you get to the event tell the instructor what you have done to prep the car and make sure you know what your cold tire pressures were the morning of the event. That way you and he can determine whether or not the pressures should be adjusted during the day.
Bill
1. New tires. The tires on the car should be ditched even if you never do an HPDE. Once you get the tires put several hundred miles on them.
2. Hawk HP+ Pads are great for the track and autocross but you may want to save your old pads to use on the street.
3. Flush the brake fluid with a good high dry boiling point DOT 3 or 4 fluid. Low cost fluid like Ford Super Duty DOT3 has a dry boiling point of 500 deg. F. It used to be known as the best kept secret in Motorsports but the dry boiling point dropped from 550 to 500 about 6 years ago. It should be fine for novice level driving with HP+ pads.
4. I don't know the state of your car's other fluids so I would make sure they are all good:
A. Ensure the antifreeze is up to date. Dexcool is good for 5 years so your car should have had its coolant changed in 2007 and 2012. If so then it should be good to go.
B. Fresh oil with an added quart after you are sure it is full. GM recommends adding an extra quart when tracking the car. I never bothered with removing the extra quart after an event. Never seemed to bother either my 97 or 03Z which I ran for 6 years each.
C. Transmission fluid make sure it is fresh and full.
D. Diff fluid. The GM fluid is a synthetic and there are no recommendations on changing it over the lifetime of the car. Check to make sure it is full and it is up to you whether you have it changed or not.
5. Have a qualified mechanic give the car a good inspection (PA state inspection level is good if the mechanic actually checks everything). Talk to the mechanic about how you are planning on using the car and that you want to make sure it doesn't break. Of concern are wheel bearings, tie rod ends, control arm bushings and sway bar bushings and end links. Depending on how many miles are on the car you may want to have him remove the sway bar bushings and inspect the sway bars where they rub against the bushings. The ones on my 03Z were severely worn when I checked them the fist time. The car had been driven a lot in a sandy area and the sand had abraded the bars where they rubbed inside the bushings.
7. Make sure all of your external lights work.
8. Go and have fun. When you get to the event tell the instructor what you have done to prep the car and make sure you know what your cold tire pressures were the morning of the event. That way you and he can determine whether or not the pressures should be adjusted during the day.
Bill
03-18-2014, 10:09 AM
#8
Race Director
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Deal's Gap 2004 NCM Motorsports track supporter
Posts: 13,915
Received 1,103 Likes
on
717 Posts
In addition to your original list just add what Bill said. Don't skip a single item they are all important, need to be checked and replaced if necessary. I would suggest the Wide Oval tire for track (novice) and street. They perform well and don't mind the track abuse. You might also look at the radiator from underneath and make sure no grass and leaves are blocking any airflow. And make sure the radiator shroud is intact and sealing very tight around the radiator. This is more important than some realize. I would carry extra brake rotors if you can. If you have no tools there should be someone there to lend whatever you may need. Enjoy. You will find yourself able to pass most cars there by the end of the day in that vehicle.
03-18-2014, 10:17 AM
#9
Melting Slicks
With your car this is what I would do to get ready.
1. New tires. The tires on the car should be ditched even if you never do an HPDE. Once you get the tires put several hundred miles on them.
2. Hawk HP+ Pads are great for the track and autocross but you may want to save your old pads to use on the street.
3. Flush the brake fluid with a good high dry boiling point DOT 3 or 4 fluid. Low cost fluid like Ford Super Duty DOT3 has a dry boiling point of 500 deg. F. It used to be known as the best kept secret in Motorsports but the dry boiling point dropped from 550 to 500 about 6 years ago. It should be fine for novice level driving with HP+ pads.
4. I don't know the state of your car's other fluids so I would make sure they are all good:
A. Ensure the antifreeze is up to date. Dexcool is good for 5 years so your car should have had its coolant changed in 2007 and 2012. If so then it should be good to go.
B. Fresh oil with an added quart after you are sure it is full. GM recommends adding an extra quart when tracking the car. I never bothered with removing the extra quart after an event. Never seemed to bother either my 97 or 03Z which I ran for 6 years each.
C. Transmission fluid make sure it is fresh and full.
D. Diff fluid. The GM fluid is a synthetic and there are no recommendations on changing it over the lifetime of the car. Check to make sure it is full and it is up to you whether you have it changed or not.
5. Have a qualified mechanic give the car a good inspection (PA state inspection level is good if the mechanic actually checks everything). Talk to the mechanic about how you are planning on using the car and that you want to make sure it doesn't break. Of concern are wheel bearings, tie rod ends, control arm bushings and sway bar bushings and end links. Depending on how many miles are on the car you may want to have him remove the sway bar bushings and inspect the sway bars where they rub against the bushings. The ones on my 03Z were severely worn when I checked them the fist time. The car had been driven a lot in a sandy area and the sand had abraded the bars where they rubbed inside the bushings.
7. Make sure all of your external lights work.
8. Go and have fun. When you get to the event tell the instructor what you have done to prep the car and make sure you know what your cold tire pressures were the morning of the event. That way you and he can determine whether or not the pressures should be adjusted during the day.
Bill
1. New tires. The tires on the car should be ditched even if you never do an HPDE. Once you get the tires put several hundred miles on them.
2. Hawk HP+ Pads are great for the track and autocross but you may want to save your old pads to use on the street.
3. Flush the brake fluid with a good high dry boiling point DOT 3 or 4 fluid. Low cost fluid like Ford Super Duty DOT3 has a dry boiling point of 500 deg. F. It used to be known as the best kept secret in Motorsports but the dry boiling point dropped from 550 to 500 about 6 years ago. It should be fine for novice level driving with HP+ pads.
4. I don't know the state of your car's other fluids so I would make sure they are all good:
A. Ensure the antifreeze is up to date. Dexcool is good for 5 years so your car should have had its coolant changed in 2007 and 2012. If so then it should be good to go.
B. Fresh oil with an added quart after you are sure it is full. GM recommends adding an extra quart when tracking the car. I never bothered with removing the extra quart after an event. Never seemed to bother either my 97 or 03Z which I ran for 6 years each.
C. Transmission fluid make sure it is fresh and full.
D. Diff fluid. The GM fluid is a synthetic and there are no recommendations on changing it over the lifetime of the car. Check to make sure it is full and it is up to you whether you have it changed or not.
5. Have a qualified mechanic give the car a good inspection (PA state inspection level is good if the mechanic actually checks everything). Talk to the mechanic about how you are planning on using the car and that you want to make sure it doesn't break. Of concern are wheel bearings, tie rod ends, control arm bushings and sway bar bushings and end links. Depending on how many miles are on the car you may want to have him remove the sway bar bushings and inspect the sway bars where they rub against the bushings. The ones on my 03Z were severely worn when I checked them the fist time. The car had been driven a lot in a sandy area and the sand had abraded the bars where they rubbed inside the bushings.
7. Make sure all of your external lights work.
8. Go and have fun. When you get to the event tell the instructor what you have done to prep the car and make sure you know what your cold tire pressures were the morning of the event. That way you and he can determine whether or not the pressures should be adjusted during the day.
Bill
Do what Bill said and you'll be ready, heck, that's more than most do (I'm a SCCA Chief of Tech).
If your brake pads are in good shape, you can run them for your first event (many guys do).
If you do change to Hawk, make sure you bed the pads in before the event (instructions come in the box).
Another fluid choice would be Castrol LMA, same specs as the Ford and is usually on the shelf in the auto parts stores.
03-18-2014, 10:29 AM
#10
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2010
Location: Tacoma, Wa/Surprise, Az
Posts: 2,849
Received 195 Likes
on
166 Posts
Great advice for starting hpde. I might add to Bill's checklist, step 5, wheel alignment, performance street version from the pfadt alignment chart. I think the C-5's are probably close to the C-6 specs but don't know for sure. The performance Street version won't accelerate tire wear and your car will handle a bit better. I would also make sure the tech uses a torque wrench on the alignment bolts. I had one break loose on me while coming out of a turn during my very first hpde. There was some drama involved but nothing major other than the fact I was done for the day. Fortunately it happened during the last session, I didn't lose control of the car as I was well within the limits of its capability (about6/10's).
03-18-2014, 10:50 AM
#11
Stuff to bring:
1 Extra fluids: brake fluid, oil, distilled water
2 Tire pressure monitor
3 Torque wrenches
4 Ratchet set
5 Tool box
6 Jacking pucks
7 Folding chair and/or canopy
8 Drop cloths for rain
9 Drinks: lots of them
10 Cooler
11 Glass cleaner
12 Paper towels
13 Blue painters tape
13 Sunscreen, SPF30 lip balm
14 Leave mats home
15 2nd set of keys
1 Extra fluids: brake fluid, oil, distilled water
2 Tire pressure monitor
3 Torque wrenches
4 Ratchet set
5 Tool box
6 Jacking pucks
7 Folding chair and/or canopy
8 Drop cloths for rain
9 Drinks: lots of them
10 Cooler
11 Glass cleaner
12 Paper towels
13 Blue painters tape
13 Sunscreen, SPF30 lip balm
14 Leave mats home
15 2nd set of keys
03-18-2014, 01:04 PM
#12
Drifting
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: Sumter South Carolina
Posts: 1,661
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
people recommend hp+ and I have no idea why. It's so easy to swap pads and hp+ make serious dust. They bite so hard cold but I use ceramic on the road to cut down the dust and they are more than adequate. If you don't care about super dust and washing rims everytime you drive a mile, then they are fine. Otherwise get a set of racing pads. you will warm them pretty fast. My hp+ heated up soooo fast after I started learning the track (pad fade in about 3 laps) and if you are swapping out why not go to a race pad? They also didn't last long driving hard. lasted about 4 weekends (not too bad but it's not as agressive pad). However with more heat comes problems cracking rotors. Don't get slotted or drilled. Just get blanks!!!!!! for the love of god get blanks. I cracked so many in the beginning worried about heat dissapation so I used slotted. Not even close to worth it until you get to the $600 for a set of front slotted rotors.
In the end your first even will be garbage but a whole lot of fun. definately get tires, if pads look good, run them, if not, replace. Flush with super blue brake fluid (you can tell when it's totally flushed) and a quick shake down by a mechanic just to be sure.
You have made the decission to go, thats the first step. Everything you think you know going into it will change quickly. I learn something new and find a weak point on my car every time I'm out and I instruct.
There is a benifit to running stock pads if they have life left in them. You learn what pad fade feels like so you don't do something dumb later down the road...
In the end your first even will be garbage but a whole lot of fun. definately get tires, if pads look good, run them, if not, replace. Flush with super blue brake fluid (you can tell when it's totally flushed) and a quick shake down by a mechanic just to be sure.
You have made the decission to go, thats the first step. Everything you think you know going into it will change quickly. I learn something new and find a weak point on my car every time I'm out and I instruct.
There is a benifit to running stock pads if they have life left in them. You learn what pad fade feels like so you don't do something dumb later down the road...
03-18-2014, 01:59 PM
#13
Drifting
My first HPDE day, I kept the car in 4th gear the entire time. All I did was bleed the brakes, no other preparation.
Recommend newer tires if yours are 12 years old. If you plan on doing more than 1 event....buy a second set of wheels/tires! You will wear out the street tires very quickly if you use them in the streets and the track.
Recommend newer tires if yours are 12 years old. If you plan on doing more than 1 event....buy a second set of wheels/tires! You will wear out the street tires very quickly if you use them in the streets and the track.
03-18-2014, 04:32 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
03-18-2014, 05:58 PM
#15
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,096
Received 8,930 Likes
on
5,334 Posts
Stuff to bring:
1 Extra fluids: brake fluid, oil, distilled water
2 Tire pressure monitor
3 Torque wrenches
4 Ratchet set
5 Tool box
6 Jacking pucks
7 Folding chair and/or canopy
8 Drop cloths for rain
9 Drinks: lots of them
10 Cooler
11 Glass cleaner
12 Paper towels
13 Blue painters tape
13 Sunscreen, SPF30 lip balm
14 Leave mats home
15 2nd set of keys
1 Extra fluids: brake fluid, oil, distilled water
2 Tire pressure monitor
3 Torque wrenches
4 Ratchet set
5 Tool box
6 Jacking pucks
7 Folding chair and/or canopy
8 Drop cloths for rain
9 Drinks: lots of them
10 Cooler
11 Glass cleaner
12 Paper towels
13 Blue painters tape
13 Sunscreen, SPF30 lip balm
14 Leave mats home
15 2nd set of keys
Bill
03-18-2014, 06:38 PM
#16
03-18-2014, 08:04 PM
#17
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thank you all for your advice, this helps ALOT
Looks like i need to bite the bullet on some tires, other than that my plans should have me ready to go. I am super excited to first just drive the car on the street, but then to get some track time this year :o)
Looks like i need to bite the bullet on some tires, other than that my plans should have me ready to go. I am super excited to first just drive the car on the street, but then to get some track time this year :o)
03-18-2014, 08:48 PM
#18
Drifting
I would carry a spare front and rear rotor. It may take a few events to crack one, but no sense in having to quit early over a $30 rotor.
Hang out with the C5 guys. They can show you how to change out a rotor in about 5 minutes.
Hang out with the C5 guys. They can show you how to change out a rotor in about 5 minutes.
03-18-2014, 09:09 PM
#19
Pro
Dot 4 fluid
New pads
New tires
Normal maintence , check belts, hoses, lose bearings....
A good inspection of the car by a qualified person for anything that looks unsafe
Everything I listed you could probably use on a 2002 anyway. On your first event keep the speeds reasonable and i don't think you need much more. Just know that you will need to be reasonable in your judgement. If you plan to do it a second time, then alignment, trans and rear fluid, etc.
Some events you can rent a helmet, but reserve one ahead of time. No need to buy one if you will do it once.
Where and when are you thinking of going?
New pads
New tires
Normal maintence , check belts, hoses, lose bearings....
A good inspection of the car by a qualified person for anything that looks unsafe
Everything I listed you could probably use on a 2002 anyway. On your first event keep the speeds reasonable and i don't think you need much more. Just know that you will need to be reasonable in your judgement. If you plan to do it a second time, then alignment, trans and rear fluid, etc.
Some events you can rent a helmet, but reserve one ahead of time. No need to buy one if you will do it once.
Where and when are you thinking of going?
03-19-2014, 06:58 AM
#20
Drifting
Thread Starter
There are several events that are an easy drive. I'm very close to Pocono and NJMP is an easy ride also. My brother in law to be is a track daze instructor at Summit Point so I like the idea of going and knowing someone who can help me. And I'm a Syracuse native, so the opportunity to get out on the glen is exciting.
There are a bunch of events at most of these. I need to get my car, well first registered and, set up with the basics folks recommended above.
I hope to be at an event by June.
There are a bunch of events at most of these. I need to get my car, well first registered and, set up with the basics folks recommended above.
I hope to be at an event by June.