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If I just stick with the LPE/modified tank route, is the stock oil pan okay to use? I've seen a few posts related to the oil pickup with the OEM dry sump not being sufficient, so even with expanded oil capacity, the pan design still may be an issue?
If I just stick with the LPE/modified tank route, is the stock oil pan okay to use? I've seen a few posts related to the oil pickup with the OEM dry sump not being sufficient, so even with expanded oil capacity, the pan design still may be an issue?
I do plan to add a ZR1 oil pump either way.
I assume from the inclusion of th modified LPE tank that you have a 2006-2008 Z06. The first question you have to answer is what kind of tracks are you running on? The early stock 8 qt dry sump is sufficient on tracks like Watkins Glen where there are no long high G left hand turns. I had 4 seasons at the Glen doing 20 track days per season using R compound tires or slicks with no oiling issues.
From reports that include some actual recorded data the LPE tank resolves the oiling issues at tracks that do have long high G left hand turns. I haven't seen any data on the GM 09 and newer higher capacity tank but I also have not heard of people blowing 2009 and newer engines due to oil starvation. There are a fair number of dropped valves blowing engines but that isn't due to a bearing lubrication issue.
Are the aftermarket systems better? Probably. Do you need them? Probably not. It all depends on where you are driving the car.
The best system is ARE stage III. I recommend the Katech oil pump. The larger tank helps but a full ARE system with ARE pan and ARE auxiliary pump would be best if you are going to be fast and put high G's on the car.
I assume from the inclusion of th modified LPE tank that you have a 2006-2008 Z06. The first question you have to answer is what kind of tracks are you running on? The early stock 8 qt dry sump is sufficient on tracks like Watkins Glen where there are no long high G left hand turns. I had 4 seasons at the Glen doing 20 track days per season using R compound tires or slicks with no oiling issues.
From reports that include some actual recorded data the LPE tank resolves the oiling issues at tracks that do have long high G left hand turns. I haven't seen any data on the GM 09 and newer higher capacity tank but I also have not heard of people blowing 2009 and newer engines due to oil starvation. There are a fair number of dropped valves blowing engines but that isn't due to a bearing lubrication issue.
Are the aftermarket systems better? Probably. Do you need them? Probably not. It all depends on where you are driving the car.
Bill
Correct, 2008Z, sorry.
My home tracks are Road Atlanta and Atlanta Motorsports Park. The heads are WCCH, so I feel "okay" in that regard. Those tracks may not be prone to the issue directly, but I wouldn't mind extra "insurance" while doing my usual 4-5 events per year.
The best system is ARE stage III. I recommend the Katech oil pump. The larger tank helps but a full ARE system with ARE pan and ARE auxiliary pump would be best if you are going to be fast and put high G's on the car.
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
Originally Posted by blackbeast99
Yes...on the A/C. May go with coilovers eventually.
Either way it makes routing most of this easier with coil overs as removing that front spring gives you a lot of room to run lines and mount the filter.
If you were loosing the A/C then you could go with a Daily setup, which in my opinion is the best dry sump out there, but the A/C pump has to go.
ARE system by LG Motorsports with our coil overs. (has an early prototype tank in this pic)
Daily Engineering three stage system by LG Motorsports.
As you can see, if you ask 10 guys that question you will get 11 answers!! LOL! I have been running the stock setup with LPE tank and the Aviaid baffles in the tank and a modified Gm oil pump for the last 6 years. And have run most tracks on the east coast including Daytona. I am running HPDE's but the car is a pretty highly modded 525HWHP and on slicks. And have 50lbs of oil pressure constantly and there are several of my friends that are running the same setup. You need to do what you think is right for you. But you do not have to spend 3k+ to get good oiling. Just my .02 JD
One thing to remember is that LS7 and LS9 factory pressure pumps (which are driven at half the speed of a SBC/BBC because they are crank rather than cam-driven) tend to cavitate above 6k rpm, leading to oil pressure dropping above 6k rpm. This happens even if you keep it adequately supplied with oil. So if you want bullet-proof, and only to do it once, then go with a 3 stage pump (two scavenge, one pressure) and mount it low where the A/C is now. If you want to keep the A/C, then relocate the A/C compressor up on the passenger cylinder head with Holley's bracket:
From: Supporting the Corvette Community at Abel Chevrolet in Rio Vista, CA 707-374-6317 Ext.123
St. Jude Donor '08
We have an ARE 3 stage system with their Spintric separator and a Katech pump on our Katech 427. I have never had any oil related issues, pressure drop or temp problems with this system, even in warm weather and 25 minute sessions.
Hey Rich, do you log your oil pressure vs RPM? On my system (very similar to the ARE system you're running), there is a definite flattening and slight downturn to oil pressure at about 5500 RPM. I can see it when I do plots of the data.
The only significant difference between our systems is the pump. I'm using a new stock pump vs the Katech. I spoke with John Schwartz at Aviaid, and he said the pressure drop was common with LS pumps. Now I'm wondering if a simple swap of the oil pump might make a real difference, rather than a 3 stage pump... and all the plumbing changes.
This is data from a Sebring track day -- high 80s temps, 30W RedLine race oil.
Last edited by parsonsj; Oct 29, 2014 at 06:53 PM.
From: Supporting the Corvette Community at Abel Chevrolet in Rio Vista, CA 707-374-6317 Ext.123
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by parsonsj
Hey Rich, do you log your oil pressure vs RPM? On my system (very similar to the ARE system you're running), there is a definite flattening and slight downturn to oil pressure at about 5500 RPM. I can see it when I do plots of the data.
The only significant difference between our systems is the pump. I'm using a new stock pump vs the Katech. I spoke with John Schwartz at Aviaid, and he said the pressure drop was common with LS pumps. Now I'm wondering if a simple swap of the oil pump might make a real difference, rather than a 3 stage pump... and all the plumbing changes.
This is data from a Sebring track day -- high 80s temps, 30W RedLine race oil.
I do not data log, but I am good at watching the gauge at multiple points on the course. Another difference is the scavenge pump. It looks like you have the original version of ARE's scavenge pump and are also not running the Spintric. I found that pressure was up about 5 PSI and temps were more consistant after installing the better scavenge pump and Spintric. I don't know how much of an effect the scavenge pump would have on pressure, but I would assume the Katech pump would be better than stock.
Right, I don't think the scavenge side has any effect on pressure, other than to ensure that the pressure side has oil to pump. If that was a problem, then there'd be cases where the oil pressure was a *lot* lower, instead of just 5-7 psi lower.
It might be that the Spintric de-aerates the oil enough to help raise the pressure by helping to ensure that the pressure side has pure oil to pump.
What weight oil do you use? And what are typical oil temps you see on the track?
Prior to the change, I have ODB2 data using a solo DL where I was running less then the recommended 10psi per 1000 rpm's at mid ohio. I have the larger tank so I did not see the extreme low points that some have experienced in long left hand sweepers. When I pulled the main cap bearings there were signs of scarring and degradation of the bearing surface.
Post install, i do not see the low points with at lease 10 psi per 1000 rpm and the min pressure i see at any point is 40 psi....period. happy with the change but it was pricey!
From: Supporting the Corvette Community at Abel Chevrolet in Rio Vista, CA 707-374-6317 Ext.123
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by parsonsj
Right, I don't think the scavenge side has any effect on pressure, other than to ensure that the pressure side has oil to pump. If that was a problem, then there'd be cases where the oil pressure was a *lot* lower, instead of just 5-7 psi lower.
It might be that the Spintric de-aerates the oil enough to help raise the pressure by helping to ensure that the pressure side has pure oil to pump.
What weight oil do you use? And what are typical oil temps you see on the track?
I run 15w50 on the track and see temps approaching 250 towards the end of a 25 min session. I think the highest I've seen is 265 on a warmer day.
Originally Posted by parsonsj
What are you using for your pressure pump? OEM or Katech? How does your pressure at 5400 rpm compare with 6400?
I have the ported Katech pump and consistently see pressures start around 60 PSI and end up around 45 PSI towards the end of the session. Pressure stays steady from 3,000 up
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Tracking Dry Sump Setup
I am in the process of wanting to improve the oil system.
