C4 ALIGNMENT
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 4,623
Likes: 2
From: Ohio
Re: C4 ALIGNMENT (larryfs)
I think the pre '88 C4's will get more, but yours should get anywhere from .9* to 1.1* neg. It will likely not be symmetrical. (stock ride height) Lowered you will get close to 2*.
[Modified by h rocks, 8:30 PM 6/18/2003]
[Modified by h rocks, 8:30 PM 6/18/2003]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,198
Likes: 2
From: Northern CA
Re: C4 ALIGNMENT (h rocks)
I think the pre '88 C4's will get more, but yours should get anywhere from .9* to 1.1* neg. It will likely not be symmetrical. (stock ride height) Lowered you will get close to 2*.
[Modified by h rocks, 8:30 PM 6/18/2003]
[Modified by h rocks, 8:30 PM 6/18/2003]
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 4,623
Likes: 2
From: Ohio
Re: C4 ALIGNMENT (JasonL)
You did very well for stock ride height. Did you have to loosen everything up and put some lift under the lower control arms to get it?
As an aside, while I don't play in SCCA AX any more, I would still like to vent on their bushing rule for BSP. They have forced competitors into spending $300 for a set of offset LCA bushings, (not to mention likely installation costs) instead of allowing the removal or modification of the spacer donuts for free. All this so that the BSPer's can get a bunch of negative camber "legally".
As an aside, while I don't play in SCCA AX any more, I would still like to vent on their bushing rule for BSP. They have forced competitors into spending $300 for a set of offset LCA bushings, (not to mention likely installation costs) instead of allowing the removal or modification of the spacer donuts for free. All this so that the BSPer's can get a bunch of negative camber "legally".
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,198
Likes: 2
From: Northern CA
Re: C4 ALIGNMENT (h rocks)
I just took it to a shop that does many autox/track cars. They are familiar with the C4, but they didn't mention using any tricks like that. Nor did it take an abnormally long time to align. I was pretty happy with the results.
Agree regarding the bushing issue, but I've resigned to the fact that it's simply not gonna change. Hey, what can you do.
Agree regarding the bushing issue, but I've resigned to the fact that it's simply not gonna change. Hey, what can you do.
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Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,010
Likes: 26
From: Somewhere nowhere
Re: C4 ALIGNMENT (h rocks)
I just looked at those spacers. You could simply mill them down, and bevel the edge so they look stock :D That would allow a BUNCH of -camber !!
right now I removed 2 out of 3 factory shims, and the camber looks negative. I don't know how much negative it really is, but I figure about 1*
maybe I'll find an alignment shop to see where I'm at.
However, my goal is not to acheive tons of neg camber. My goal is to have the kumho's wear evenly at road course events. How much neg that will take I have no idea..
and I stuck the camber brace in there at the same time... so we'll see how it handles....
[Modified by larryfs, 7:02 PM 6/20/2003]
right now I removed 2 out of 3 factory shims, and the camber looks negative. I don't know how much negative it really is, but I figure about 1*
maybe I'll find an alignment shop to see where I'm at.
However, my goal is not to acheive tons of neg camber. My goal is to have the kumho's wear evenly at road course events. How much neg that will take I have no idea..
and I stuck the camber brace in there at the same time... so we'll see how it handles....
[Modified by larryfs, 7:02 PM 6/20/2003]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 871
Likes: 1
From: Union KY
Re: C4 ALIGNMENT (larryfs)
Larry:
My 96 CE (stock ride height) came out at 1.8 degrees negative with all the shims out of the passenger side. The drivers side came out a match with one shim left. My allignment guy (who races a trailered A/S C4) cried over the fact that his will only give him 1 degee max. BTW, at 1.8 it turns in like a bandit!
Cire96 :cheers:
My 96 CE (stock ride height) came out at 1.8 degrees negative with all the shims out of the passenger side. The drivers side came out a match with one shim left. My allignment guy (who races a trailered A/S C4) cried over the fact that his will only give him 1 degee max. BTW, at 1.8 it turns in like a bandit!
Cire96 :cheers:
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,010
Likes: 26
From: Somewhere nowhere
Re: C4 ALIGNMENT (cire96)
I started doing driving events with my 96 Z51 all stock with Kumho's.
When I really started pushing it, there was tons of body roll, the car felt floaty through corners. I didn't like it at all. I couldn't believe how much body roll there is. 22,000 miles on the car.
So we'll see now that I yanked a few shims, and threw the camber brace in there. I still have to get the rear alignment negative. I might do that by eye as well.
I have the bigger sway bars on order (30 and 26). But they won't be going in until after the next event.
how much castor you get with NO shims???
how much toe do you run. I have it toed out, but it is terrible on the street. great on the track, but not highways... I might go back to zero toe.
When I really started pushing it, there was tons of body roll, the car felt floaty through corners. I didn't like it at all. I couldn't believe how much body roll there is. 22,000 miles on the car.
So we'll see now that I yanked a few shims, and threw the camber brace in there. I still have to get the rear alignment negative. I might do that by eye as well.
I have the bigger sway bars on order (30 and 26). But they won't be going in until after the next event.
how much castor you get with NO shims???
how much toe do you run. I have it toed out, but it is terrible on the street. great on the track, but not highways... I might go back to zero toe.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 4,623
Likes: 2
From: Ohio
Re: C4 ALIGNMENT (larryfs)
larryfs, the mileage on your car has nothing to do with the roll or the "floaty" feel of the car. It's simply because the 96's were sprung like Cadillacs, and you have the small sway bars. Nothing that can't be improved greatly, without huge expense. But first install your big bars then re-evaluate. I think you will notice a nice improvement in roll.
As far as the alignment, I would not recommend you run toe out on the street. First, for the reasons you mentioned, next you don't need to. Just have the front set to Zero. You can match mark your tie rods and ball stud ends and adjust the length of the rods with a 13mm open end. Each 1/2 turn equals approx. 1/16" Make them long for a constipated course, then set them back to Zero at the end of the event.
[Modified by h rocks, 1:20 AM 6/21/2003]
As far as the alignment, I would not recommend you run toe out on the street. First, for the reasons you mentioned, next you don't need to. Just have the front set to Zero. You can match mark your tie rods and ball stud ends and adjust the length of the rods with a 13mm open end. Each 1/2 turn equals approx. 1/16" Make them long for a constipated course, then set them back to Zero at the end of the event.
[Modified by h rocks, 1:20 AM 6/21/2003]
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,010
Likes: 26
From: Somewhere nowhere
Re: C4 ALIGNMENT (h rocks)
when I mentioned 22,000 miles, I was referring that the OE Z51 shocks may need replacement. but I pulled them, and they still have plenty of resistance and gas pressure in there. If I was to replace them, I'd have to go with koni's.. But the sway bars are going in first.
It will take me a while to get this car sorted out to the way I like it.
at least with the LT4, I can leave the motor alone :rolleyes:
It will take me a while to get this car sorted out to the way I like it.
at least with the LT4, I can leave the motor alone :rolleyes:
