Pertronix conversion
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 217
Likes: 1
From: Cortez Florida
Pertronix conversion
I need to make a decision on what to do with the distributor on my 65 convt. The tach drive gear is bad so I'm going to have to pull it out and repair it..probably take it to local shop and have it rebuilt. This of course brings up the question of HEI conversion and or doing A Pertronix kit.
I have no experience with either one and can go with either of the options...so, I'm looking for imput. The current motor is a bone stock 350, but over the next few months it will morph into a 383 or a new GM 383 will be installed. Naturally the tach drive it the biggest issue that I can see since all the replacement units are good up to 6500 rpms and the car won't be on the track anyway. I appreciate all the imput you guys can give. Thanks , Phil
I have no experience with either one and can go with either of the options...so, I'm looking for imput. The current motor is a bone stock 350, but over the next few months it will morph into a 383 or a new GM 383 will be installed. Naturally the tach drive it the biggest issue that I can see since all the replacement units are good up to 6500 rpms and the car won't be on the track anyway. I appreciate all the imput you guys can give. Thanks , Phil
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,380
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From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
A good points setup will outperform an aftermarket electronic conversion every time. Keep the points - just use a good quality set like the NAPA/Echlin CS786 with an RR175 condenser. Do a good re-curve on the distributor to get the timing curve in quickly and set up the installed system to provide 35-36 degree total timing. This will produce an outstanding level of performance with excellent reliability and durability.
A caution note on having the distributor "rebuilt." If you're seeing cross gear wear or problems, the distributor housing often will have a significant amount of wear in the cross gear thrust area: the gear will often dig itself a counterbore right into the side of the housing. If this is not correctly repaired by having a custom thrust button fabricated to fill in this area, the new gear will dig itself into this counterbore, lock up, and take out the mainshaft as well as itself. Make sure the person doing the "rebuild" has the ability to correctly repair the common problems on the tach-drive distributor...
A caution note on having the distributor "rebuilt." If you're seeing cross gear wear or problems, the distributor housing often will have a significant amount of wear in the cross gear thrust area: the gear will often dig itself a counterbore right into the side of the housing. If this is not correctly repaired by having a custom thrust button fabricated to fill in this area, the new gear will dig itself into this counterbore, lock up, and take out the mainshaft as well as itself. Make sure the person doing the "rebuild" has the ability to correctly repair the common problems on the tach-drive distributor...
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,574
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From: Middleboro/Boston MA
Originally Posted by lars
A good points setup will outperform an aftermarket electronic conversion every time.
I'm curious about this statement. I don't know much about the pertronix, but what about the HEI option ? Aren't most C3's using that? Why are they using it, mainly for emissions ?
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,068
Likes: 27
From: St. Joseph Mo
What Lars posted.
The best fix for a worn distributer housing is a 5/16-24 x 5/8 socket set screw with a jam nut. We drilled and tapped mine with an end milling machine using the coupler to line things up (drill press is ok but less solid). Grind and polish the end of the set screw very smooth to provide thrust surface for cross gear. Jam nut provides adjustment for endplay. Later model C3's had a nylon button I think. Some of the parts houses sell tooling and parts to do this.
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,712
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Originally Posted by Crazyhorse
I'm curious about this statement. I don't know much about the pertronix, but what about the HEI option ? Aren't most C3's using that? Why are they using it, mainly for emissions ?
HEI was part of the catalytic converter package installed on virtually all GM models beginning in '75. A misfiring conventional ignition can rapidly overhead the converter. The HEI generally works perfectly or doesn't work at all - often without warning.
Points work just fine on a vintage car, and they rarely fail. If they do, your spare set in the glove box can be swapped in within a few minutes.
One of the best features about vintage cars is that they are SIMPLE - no "black boxes" to fail suddenly and leave you stranded, and you can troubleshoot the entire electrical system with a $15 Radio Shack multimeter.
Duke
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,965
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From: Melbourne FL
I gave consideration to converting mine as I was rebuilding it recently and just decided I couldn't think of a single good reason to go away from something that had always performed well and never left me stranded and, to something that offered no better performance and could well leave me on the side of the road.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,380
Likes: 6,391
From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
Originally Posted by Crazyhorse
I'm curious about this statement. I don't know much about the pertronix, but what about the HEI option ? Aren't most C3's using that? Why are they using it, mainly for emissions ?
The GM HEI system is actually very good. But as Duke noted, they did not come with tach drives, and the physical size of the dstributor makes it visually incorrect in a C2, precluding use of the stock shielding. There are some companies offering a tach drive HEI distributor (Mid America & others) for those wanting the advantages of the HEI system.
For ease of tuning, reliability, and overall good performance, it's very tough to beat the stock point-style distributor. This distributor is very "tuneable" and it's easy to change the characteristics of the timing curve for optimum performance - easier than the HEI. If you want to add some performance to the points system, you can run an MSD-6AL and use the points to trigger it.
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Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Washington Michigan
Originally Posted by GOPSU!
I put the pertronix in my 64 L76 and love it. Not only that you can hide it so the NCRS ****'s can't see it. There isn't a point set alive that can deliver 9000 volts right on time.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 277
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From: Bellevue WA
Originally Posted by GOPSU!
I put the pertronix in my 64 L76 and love it. Not only that you can hide it so the NCRS ****'s can't see it. There isn't a point set alive that can deliver 9000 volts right on time.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,480
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From: Wa.
Originally Posted by lars
A good points setup will outperform an aftermarket electronic conversion every time. Keep the points - just use a good quality set like the NAPA/Echlin CS786 with an RR175 condenser. Do a good re-curve on the distributor to get the timing curve in quickly and set up the installed system to provide 35-36 degree total timing. This will produce an outstanding level of performance with excellent reliability and durability.
I have to disagree. Points wear, the rubbing block wears (changing the dwell) and points bounce (unless you use a very strong spring, then the rubbing block wears faster). Recurving a distributor has nothing to do with the points so you can do all that AND do the conversion. It's time to get out of the 60's and upgrade.
P.S. There's a reason they haven't used points in 30 years.
Last edited by JWD01; Mar 17, 2005 at 07:31 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 30,995
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From: Ontario
I have to agree to disagree. In other words I cannot take sides. I have used a Pertronix unit for several years without any problems. This debate has gone on before - many times - with the usual non-conclusion as to the merits of these electronic units. But mine works well.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,620
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From: 20 forward gears to shift through in MD
I have the factory TI system on my 66 vert and it works just fine (just to throw another option into the mix). But, I am using the Pertronix on my 66 coupe (327/350) and have to admit that the idle characteristics are much better than the old points set up. I always keep a set of points in the glove box (just in case), but have never had a problem yet (3 years).
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,954
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From: New Jersey
The HEI generally works perfectly or doesn't work at all - often without warning.
Points work just fine on a vintage car, and they rarely fail. If they do, your spare set in the glove box can be swapped in within a few minutes.
Duke[/QUOTE]
my father always told me to keep a spare setof points in the glove compartment with a pack of matches, the match pack was a good enough gap setter to get it running and get you home, and believe me it worked
Points work just fine on a vintage car, and they rarely fail. If they do, your spare set in the glove box can be swapped in within a few minutes.
Duke[/QUOTE]
my father always told me to keep a spare setof points in the glove compartment with a pack of matches, the match pack was a good enough gap setter to get it running and get you home, and believe me it worked
Racer
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 391
Likes: 9
From: Wake Forest NC
I've been bitten by the HEI bug on my 79 trans am one fine evening many years ago. It required not just pulling the dist., but taking the thing totally apart to remove the module. Only happend once but what a pita. But, that's the risk with electronics.
Now I've installed the SE breakerless system from T.I. Specialties in my '66 SB 300hp and it works great. Plugs have an even burn over all eight, which I didn't have before. However, it's still electronic stuff which is why I have a set of points and cond. in the glove box.
Just my $.02....
Frank
Now I've installed the SE breakerless system from T.I. Specialties in my '66 SB 300hp and it works great. Plugs have an even burn over all eight, which I didn't have before. However, it's still electronic stuff which is why I have a set of points and cond. in the glove box.
Just my $.02....
Frank
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 15,053
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From: central FL, near the beach.
after 10 yrs electronic, i got bored, so i set the timing on each individual cylinder. (actually i cut 4 degrees out of the 3 leanest)
i bet u guys w/points are too busy to do that
i bet u guys w/points are too busy to do that
Racer
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 442
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From: Zürich Switzerland
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Originally Posted by Matt Gruber
after 10 yrs electronic, i got bored, so i set the timing on each individual cylinder. (actually i cut 4 degrees out of the 3 leanest)
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 3,504
Likes: 4
From: Mexico Beach FL
I put the Pertronix on mine.
I've had no problems, but thinking back, I wouldn't do it again.
I'm actually thinking of taking it out.
Points really aren't that hard to maintain, especially on a vehicle that doesn't get driven frequently.
Points are simple and there isn't much to go wrong. And, when something does go wrong with them, it is extremely rare that it will quit completely.
In the time I ran vehicles with points, more years than I like to think, I never had one leave me down because of points -- had some run badly, missing etc. But, never actually quit.
With electronic ignition, I've had a few cases of coming to a halt.
Now, let me tell you about my '92 Corvette....the Opti-Spark is a long story.
It now has a Cadillac Northstar 4 coil (waste spark) ignition system with a Delteq module driving it:
http://www.delteq.com/
I did that for reliability.
Tom Piper
I've had no problems, but thinking back, I wouldn't do it again.
I'm actually thinking of taking it out.
Points really aren't that hard to maintain, especially on a vehicle that doesn't get driven frequently.
Points are simple and there isn't much to go wrong. And, when something does go wrong with them, it is extremely rare that it will quit completely.
In the time I ran vehicles with points, more years than I like to think, I never had one leave me down because of points -- had some run badly, missing etc. But, never actually quit.
With electronic ignition, I've had a few cases of coming to a halt.
Now, let me tell you about my '92 Corvette....the Opti-Spark is a long story.
It now has a Cadillac Northstar 4 coil (waste spark) ignition system with a Delteq module driving it:
http://www.delteq.com/
I did that for reliability.
Tom Piper
Last edited by Tom Piper; Mar 18, 2005 at 08:51 AM.