Midyear convertible top installation...
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,216
Likes: 10
From: Cascade Maryland
Midyear convertible top installation...
I've been to several auto upholstery shops, who all say they're the best. When I stop by and talk to the owner's, I ask them if they can do a perfect ragtop installation on my '67. To me, nothing looks worse than a bad ragtop installation.
They say....what do you mean by perfect? I tell them I want the top to fit correctly, not too tight, not too loose, no sags, wrinkles or puckers. Most of all, I don't want to see any visible mistakes that are not reversible. Then it seems they back off and give me the impression that they don't really want my job.
Is what I'm asking above too much? If I can't get a jobber who is enthusiastic about doing my ragtop, I'm inclined to just do it myself, that way any blame goes on me. Whadda think? Thanks PT
They say....what do you mean by perfect? I tell them I want the top to fit correctly, not too tight, not too loose, no sags, wrinkles or puckers. Most of all, I don't want to see any visible mistakes that are not reversible. Then it seems they back off and give me the impression that they don't really want my job.
Is what I'm asking above too much? If I can't get a jobber who is enthusiastic about doing my ragtop, I'm inclined to just do it myself, that way any blame goes on me. Whadda think? Thanks PT
Last edited by Patrick67; Jan 16, 2006 at 04:27 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,039
Likes: 2,591
From: Del Boca Vista FL
PT
IMHO You are asking a shop to place themselves in what they feel is an unwinnable situation.
Not too tight, not too loose, no sags, wrinkles or puckers. According to whom?
Unless it is a custom cut top on a perfectly fitting perfectly symmetrical frame on a perfectly square passenger compartment (lots of those in factory Corvettes) that may not be physically possible. And that is when it is brand new. Give it a couple of months and nature makes funny things happen to canvass.
It sounds like you are asking for what they feel is perfection and they don't want to be bothered with you because there are lots of other folks out there who will accept a job that looks OK and works fine, but is less than perfection and they will still be satisfied.
Al Knoch installs tops at Carlisle every show and has a great reputation. You need to contact him and schedule months in advance as he is really busy every show with installations. I don't know the shops in your area or their abilities, but they do.
Good luck with your top installation. Hope you can get what you will be satisfied with.
Rich
IMHO You are asking a shop to place themselves in what they feel is an unwinnable situation.
Not too tight, not too loose, no sags, wrinkles or puckers. According to whom?
Unless it is a custom cut top on a perfectly fitting perfectly symmetrical frame on a perfectly square passenger compartment (lots of those in factory Corvettes) that may not be physically possible. And that is when it is brand new. Give it a couple of months and nature makes funny things happen to canvass.
It sounds like you are asking for what they feel is perfection and they don't want to be bothered with you because there are lots of other folks out there who will accept a job that looks OK and works fine, but is less than perfection and they will still be satisfied.
Al Knoch installs tops at Carlisle every show and has a great reputation. You need to contact him and schedule months in advance as he is really busy every show with installations. I don't know the shops in your area or their abilities, but they do.
Good luck with your top installation. Hope you can get what you will be satisfied with.
Rich
Race Director
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 10,866
Likes: 717
From: Beverly Hills/Pine Ridge Florida
Originally Posted by PTighe
I've been to several auto upholstery shops, who all say they're the best. When I stop by and talk to the owner's, I ask them if they can do a perfect ragtop installation on my '67. To me, nothing looks worse than a bad ragtop installation.
They say....what do you mean by perfect? I tell them I want the top to fit correctly, not too tight, not too loose, no sags, wrinkles or puckers. Most of all, I don't want to see any visible mistakes that are not reversible. Then it seems they back off and give me the impression that they don't really want my job.
Is what I'm asking above too much? If I can't get a jobber who is enthusiastic about doing my ragtop, I'm inclined to just do it myself, that way any blame goes on me. Whadda think? Thanks PT
They say....what do you mean by perfect? I tell them I want the top to fit correctly, not too tight, not too loose, no sags, wrinkles or puckers. Most of all, I don't want to see any visible mistakes that are not reversible. Then it seems they back off and give me the impression that they don't really want my job.
Is what I'm asking above too much? If I can't get a jobber who is enthusiastic about doing my ragtop, I'm inclined to just do it myself, that way any blame goes on me. Whadda think? Thanks PT
We've used Al Knoch stuff. We also follow the video....we actually have a VCR in the garage to play and replay.
If you take your time, you can do an excellent job, but as others have stated, nothing is perfect. I think you're scaring jobbers away with your expectations.
Chuck
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 38,897
Likes: 1,926
From: Washington Michigan
The words "wrinkle-free" are what's turning the shop off; they can be done that way (although St. Louis didn't), but when they're installed "bowstring tight" with no wrinkles, they don't seal well to the body (due to inadequate weatherstrip compression), and they're very difficult to latch. Soft top installation requires balancing numerous factors to get the right compromise between appearance, sealing, and operation. 
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,216
Likes: 10
From: Cascade Maryland
Originally Posted by BADBIRDCAGE
PT
IMHO You are asking a shop to place themselves in what they feel is an unwinnable situation.
Rich
IMHO You are asking a shop to place themselves in what they feel is an unwinnable situation.
Rich
I guess I'll need to tone it down a little and show them several pictures of what I expect the finished top to look like. That way I'll let the pictures do the talking for me. PT
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,216
Likes: 10
From: Cascade Maryland
Originally Posted by Chuck Gongloff
It's NOT too hard to do yourself, Patrick. I've done a couple, and have been involved in a few more.
We've used Al Knoch stuff. We also follow the video....we actually have a VCR in the garage to play and replay.
If you take your time, you can do an excellent job, but as others have stated, nothing is perfect. I think you're scaring jobbers away with your expectations. Chuck
We've used Al Knoch stuff. We also follow the video....we actually have a VCR in the garage to play and replay.
If you take your time, you can do an excellent job, but as others have stated, nothing is perfect. I think you're scaring jobbers away with your expectations.
ChuckI once had my leather seats redyed by a so called "expert" on my 308 GTBI and it turned out to be a complete fiasco! That's why I'm paranoid. Thanks! PT
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,039
Likes: 2,591
From: Del Boca Vista FL
PT
I would think that asking if they can do a "show quality" installation job is a fair question on your part. Might also take along a few photos of what you are seeking. Puts everyone on the same playing field.
For example, I was an automotive machinist for about 17 years. Used to have people come in the shop with the new "tuftrided" crankshafts from GM and request (demand, actually) that the shaft be reground to first undersize and indexed. When you told them that it might not be possible they considered you incompetent. When you put the shaft into a crankshaft grinder, lined up on the first connecting rod journal, went 90 degrees to the next one and put the dial indicator on it showing that the journal would not clean round at first undersize they saw it in the flesh and believed it because they had to. But now we were both on the same playing field.
Tell them what you want, look at jobs they have done previously, make your decision.
Hope it all works out good.
Rich
I would think that asking if they can do a "show quality" installation job is a fair question on your part. Might also take along a few photos of what you are seeking. Puts everyone on the same playing field.
For example, I was an automotive machinist for about 17 years. Used to have people come in the shop with the new "tuftrided" crankshafts from GM and request (demand, actually) that the shaft be reground to first undersize and indexed. When you told them that it might not be possible they considered you incompetent. When you put the shaft into a crankshaft grinder, lined up on the first connecting rod journal, went 90 degrees to the next one and put the dial indicator on it showing that the journal would not clean round at first undersize they saw it in the flesh and believed it because they had to. But now we were both on the same playing field.
Tell them what you want, look at jobs they have done previously, make your decision.
Hope it all works out good.
Rich
Drifting
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,276
Likes: 25
From: whitney pt. N.Y., USA ny
My 2 cents on top installation
Hi, I ve done about 20 tops for myself and others in the last 17 years. The first four I did were tight, no sags, no wrinkles and over two days to complete with a lot of pulling and stapling,restapling,restapling...
I've since redone three of those becuse they were so tight after that first summer shrinking they were pulling the the windshield header away from the glass, I broke a latch trying to fasten once. And they didn't seal well and leaked a lot.
Now i put them on loose but square. I've had guys tell me they looked like Hell when I was done. wrinkles and sagging between bows.
I drive my cars in the summer, I don't purposely head out in the rain and we drive with the top down even when we have to wear a coat when it bright. So the tops are folded a lot. Two good days in the sun after an installation and the wrinkles are gone the sags are gone AND I can latch the top and it now seals out the water when we do get caught in the rain. ALL tops shrink a lot. Al Knock tops are good quaility But they give you just the barest minimun material at the front bow. So if you decide to do your self take care. Until I bought my professional staple gun I worked hard to keep staples in properly.
I've since redone three of those becuse they were so tight after that first summer shrinking they were pulling the the windshield header away from the glass, I broke a latch trying to fasten once. And they didn't seal well and leaked a lot.
Now i put them on loose but square. I've had guys tell me they looked like Hell when I was done. wrinkles and sagging between bows.
I drive my cars in the summer, I don't purposely head out in the rain and we drive with the top down even when we have to wear a coat when it bright. So the tops are folded a lot. Two good days in the sun after an installation and the wrinkles are gone the sags are gone AND I can latch the top and it now seals out the water when we do get caught in the rain. ALL tops shrink a lot. Al Knock tops are good quaility But they give you just the barest minimun material at the front bow. So if you decide to do your self take care. Until I bought my professional staple gun I worked hard to keep staples in properly.
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