0afcmike

"Facts about 1963-66 Knock-off wheels and 1967 bolt-on wheels"

I have been contacted by many customers and avid vette enthusiasts during the past few weeks, regarding our new reproduction 1963-66"knock-off" wheels, and the 1967 "Bolt-on" wheels. I feel it is time to clear-up this entire mess by stating the facts.

For about 25 years, Western reproduced the 63-67 wheels for our competitor as an acceptable reproduction. Then 2 years ago they took the project to a new sub-contractor and our competitor had Western send their blueprints to the new contractor. This was like a slap in the face to Western. The new company apparently, went off this blueprint, which was modified for reasons I think you can see, that are obvious.

Over the last few years, 63-67 vettes have gone up in value dramatically and we feel that all parts reproduced should be as close to the original in form, fit and function; with the highest quality, and still be D.O.T. legal. We started with a GM N.O.S. 1967 bolt on wheel, not a "repop of a repop". We made sure the characteristics such as the outer wheel lip (like the original), could hold a wheel weight which has a very unique shaped lip.

The most obvious difference in the original wheels and "our competitor's" wheels, is the shape and size of the 36 ribs or fins, that are on the face. The original fin size is .15" on the top surface, which tapers to .295" at the bottom. Just like some Corvette Forum writers have sent in their Western fin sizes measuring between .23 - .26 inches at the top rib surface and the new wheels now repopped by our competitor, are .30" at the top surface of the rib and tapers down to .60" at the base of the rib. Our wheels are .15" at the top and taper to .30" at the base. Their fins are so wide that the square holes between each fin are significantly smaller. The angle of the ribs on their wheels are so flat compared to the originals and our wheels that each rib face on their wheels are only 3 5/8" long as compared to the originals being 4 1/8". Our rib length of 4 1/8th" is the same as original. Our competitor's wheels are 3/8" thicker at the center hub, then our wheels and the original wheels. This is why their rib angle is not as steep or as long as original. Also, their wheels weigh approx. 4 1/2lbs more than the original, and 4 1/4lbs. more than our wheels. The area between the fins should be a cast looking rough finish, unlike their smooth semi-gloss black surface. The backside of our wheels are very similar to the originals, unlike our competitor's. Our wheels have the struts, or thicker casting around 16 of the 36 holes on the backside like they did factory new. Our wheels, have no writing or names cast on the backside, unlike our competitor.

The next issue I need to address, is the center hardware. If you take note, our wheels have tapered lug nut holes so stock lug nuts will seat the wheel effortlessly. The competitor's wheels have a unique flat recessed lug nut area that is designed as part of their adapters for their hardware. We design our adapters with every part totally different then their pieces. Apparently, people are being told by our competitor or other sources, they will never be able to purchase hardware from us because we tried to copy their center piece design and that they are going to take legal action against us. This is just another absurd statement by people. Our new direct bolt on type hardware is not interchangeable with their pieces, because we never intended on buying any of their hardware or we would have never made our wheels with the simple tapered lug seat design. Our 1963-66 hardware will be available from the very first day we ship our wheel sets and one month later our new design starburst for the 1967 wheels will be available. Our starburst will not be retained by 4 spring clips that seem to fail in many cases at retaining the starburst as they go down the road. This is also a danger and a liability to other people and vehicles; as I have heard from some customers that they had lost starbursts while driving. .So, we decided to retain the starbursts entirely different. They will be attached by 3 studs with locking nuts, much safer and less liability. Our center hardware will attach much easier then any of these other wheels in the past and we feel a lot safer. Our center cones for the 1963-66 vettes, will be the correct shape with the raised bump just below the spinner unlike our competitor's.

Finally, our wheels have 2 bead locks for safety purposes required by the D.O.T., (inner & outer). Our competitor's wheels only have an outer bead lock for the tire, and no inner bead. I believe this makes their wheel illegal by D.O.T. standards, and for obvious reasons, they are not as safe. I was told when we went to manufacturing that all wheels are required to have the 2-bead locks or they are not safe enough for the D.O.T. I would advise you to check with the D.O.T. yourself concerning this issue.

I hope I have cleared-up any misunderstandings out there concerning the differences in our wheels, and why we manufactured them. If anyone would like to talk with me about the wheels or any other products we manufacture, feel free to send email to: afc@corvetteusa.com, or call me at: (760) 443-8982.

Thank you for all the interest on this subject.

Michael Mermelstein,
Owner of America 's Finest Corvettes.

MarvBarrish

Can you post a picture of your 63 - 66 wheels? Regards, Marv

0afcmike

I'll will definetly post some pictures of those 63-66 wheels at the end of the day today. I'll also put pictures showing how our spinners will be retained. Thanks for your interest, MikeI
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/atta...1&d=1177377800

Glenn's 67 BB Vert

Please post pic's of the 67's as they become available--thanks for the info--Glenn

0afcmike

Here's a shot of the wheel which will be available by mid May.

mdz06vetter

Mike,

so, the 1967 is the only direct bolt-on wheel? have a 1963/4 style wheel that is a direct bolt-on and would like to find another for a spare

Glenn's 67 BB Vert

thanks Mike got a price on them for 4??

King Cobra

Mike, How do I quickly determine the KO's on my 63 vette? The KO's was installed in 1986, approximately. Reason need a KO (spare)
Thanks for your very informative discussion of your wheels as opposed to copy kat. Boo on them.

jtranger

Mike, How much does it cost for a set of 4 for a 1965? Thanks

wombvette

I think you can safely assume that they are the repros.

Rob_64-365

I appreciate your explination and have no problem with hearing it, so dont take this as a negative towards you or your product at all. I think it's a step in the right direction.

As an engineer GM for many years, and many more years as an engineer to many diferent O.E.M.'s, i really dont see what's so difficult about reproducing something original to a high standard... A standard of technology thats 40 years old. Thats alot lower of standard than you would have to hold today.

You have come in here, given us a pitch on how you did your research, the original you used, what you measured, and then how the competition doesnt stack up... Not exactly rocket science, but still, its about time someone figures out that what a customer wants is the proper quality. So i have no problem with what you say here, but it just makes me wonder what kind of a cloud of smoke most companies live in, that make reproduction parts.

We all appreciate a quality product that matches the original in all its detail, but what is so difficult about this? It's what i would think is expected if you would hope to survive in todays market? I mean, every single day, i deal with the most minute details, of a variance in a gloss level, or grain requirement, or a finish, or paint shade, and if its not EXACTLY what the customer wants, it's unacceptable. Botttom line, fix it, at your cost, or you dont get paid. Thats the real world. What deems us customers of yours to be any different? I know every vette part i've needed sure isnt cheap, but i've seen some pretty unacceptable reproduction parts without mentioning any names... it's a tool, or a process, tune it until its exactly where you want it, and keep it maintained!!!!

It's like the HUGE want for the original N11 (i believe) off road exhaust mufflers, sure people say they reproduce them, but why is it they sound nothing like an original? It's just another example. Why they dont take this same approach, & get an original muffler, spec it, and match it, i have no idea?? People will buy it! Demand should drive the market, and if the quality isnt there, the price is paid by the manufacturer, not by the customer having a lower quality parodut that he/she paid full price for, because nobody makes a good one!

Anyway, i'm glad to see you taking this approach, theres alot more parts that could use your approach...

Now im gonna agree with myself! Lol

58636566

I have purchased parts from many vendors and I can say with experience, that I have seen both ends of the good and bad. I am a Mechanical Designer and agree with Rob_64-365 on what the customer wants. We could never design a part that was just good enough and sell it off, it doesn't work that way.
For reproduction parts, America's Finest Corvettes has been a leader in making parts correct. Some people may think some of the parts may run a little more, but they are on the money. I have purchased parts from Mike and found him to be very knowledgeable and helpful, although very busy. He takes pride in making the parts accurate.
As for the 1963-66 wheels, they are bolt-ons with the hardware added. I have placed an order with AFC and anxiously await for them to get them in and ship them. Go to AFC's website to see other parts that he makes. www.corvetteusa.com

joec

you know I was gonna let this go, but I just couldn't....

I have been up to AFC's web site and I agree that he does indeed have some nice stuff.. His wheels look very nice and closer to the originals than the ones that I bought 2 years ago..

That being said, the rest just looks to ME as a BS sales job for his wheels... He states that Western got slapped in the face, which indeed they might have. But they didn't "own" the blueprints so they could effectively have who ever they want make the wheels once the contract was over. Since your wheels were "nowhere" to be found then, I went with was out there.. Another issue I have with you is you state that you "believe" that my wheels are illegal and unsafe by D.O.T. standards.. That statement that is very ballsey (sp?)... Are they or aren't they, as you just went through this process. Are they grandfathered in since they are an older design?? I surely don't know and I did search the D.O.T. site and numerous documents.. I couldn't find it, but thats not to say it isn't there..

So instead of mixing in a bunch of BS when you have a better repro, just stick to the facts that you have specific part available, we, the consumers and enthusiast's will be the judge.

/jc

66BlkBB

"So instead of mixing in a bunch of BS when you have a better repro, just stick to the facts that you have specific part available, we, the consumers and enthusiast's will be the judge."

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

You have to admit this is a good sales gimmick. This gentleman has all the mid year owners who have the repro wheels now thinking that maybe their wheels are not good enough for the vehicle they drive. He infers that they may not meet DOT standards and certainly do not represent the original KO's from GM/KH. Kind of creates his own demand for his reproduction wheels. As indicated, KH quit making these wheels long ago. Not every mid year had them when they came from the factory, so when people wanted them on their particular car they had no choice but to go to the only option out there. Western............ It seems to me that NCRS has not been so blatant as to call them (Western Repro's) not good enough for Top Flight in their judging system. Where is all this going to stop. Will it now be not good enough to put Al Knoch interior, or any other interior venders product, in your car because it is not sewn with the same thread, stitch and spacing? JMT

Steve

Glenn's 67 BB Vert

Anybody else notice we don't seem to get a up front price when we ask for it besides me??

Nick D.

The prices for the bolt-ons are on his website linked in one of the threads above, I found it in about 10 seconds. If you read his opening statement he says "If anyone would like to talk with me about the wheels or any other products we manufacture, feel free to send email to: afc@corvetteusa.com, or call me at: (760) 443-8982."
Why don't you guys be proactive and call or email, instead of

JohnZ

Individual components have nothing to do with whether or not a car qualifies for Top Flight; appropriate deductions are made based on a component's deviations from originality (configuration, installation, completeness, finish, and date) and condition, and the final numerical score for the whole car determines whether it qualifies. No single component knocks a car "out of the box" for Top Flight except for an incorrect block casting number or an altered, missing, or fake trim tag.

joec

Yup.. Prices are up there.. $2200 I believe... What am I going to accomplish by calling him or emailing him?? He came here and wrote this 5 paragraph diatribe on how his are so much better (they do look good) and that mine are unsafe and possibly illeagal by D.O.T. standards..

So it's still a crock of SH*()()T.... You want to come up here and say that you have a new part available.. Fine.. But don't come up here and say mine sucks and oh, BTW it's unsafe and illegal.. Are they or aren't they, he just went through the damn process....

/joe

ratpack1968

Yes, but tell us how you really feel Joe.

MarvBarrish

Anytime someone is selling something of course he has to make his pitch. In this case he's trying to point out the differences between the 2 wheels and also show cause of why his wheels are quite a bit more expensive than his competition. Nothing wrong with any of this. He's made his case and now it's up to the buyers to determine if they are going to buy into it or not. It is the american way. I happen to like his wheels and will consider buying a set, but if I had the other wheels atready and was happy with them, then I wouldn't consider them. End of story. Regards, Marv