What value does documentation add ?
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
From: Brimfield Il
First off, I agree with Kenba here in principle. He may have mis written or you might have taken it too harsh, but he has a point.
Now for the real lesson. You are a newbie, so be prepared for some flames. Buy a car that you like and for what you feel is a good price. Both of those variables are just that, variable. Don't just buy it cause your 401 is tanking and you're looking for the ultimate buck maker. History and common sense says that they don't make 60's vettes anymore. So the ones that are made are gonna go up in value.
Find a car you like, and buy it. DRive it for a while and hopefully your wife will know it is worth something when she sells your stuff at auction. (Either when you die, or when you get caught with your girlfriend). Good luck with your search.
Now for the real lesson. You are a newbie, so be prepared for some flames. Buy a car that you like and for what you feel is a good price. Both of those variables are just that, variable. Don't just buy it cause your 401 is tanking and you're looking for the ultimate buck maker. History and common sense says that they don't make 60's vettes anymore. So the ones that are made are gonna go up in value.
Find a car you like, and buy it. DRive it for a while and hopefully your wife will know it is worth something when she sells your stuff at auction. (Either when you die, or when you get caught with your girlfriend). Good luck with your search.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,849
Likes: 367
From: PHOENIX AZ. WHAT A MAN WON"T SPEND TO GIVE HIS ASS A RIDE
so take it easy. I'm on your side. I'm gaging the market to try to learn pricing to ultimately purchase a car without getting torched. I have joined NCRS, national and so. ca. , I've read nearly every book written about covettes, both Nolan Adams resto. books. I've ordered and watched the entire NCRS judging dvds and the Noland Adams dvds. I learned how to read dull material in law school. I think there are some deals at BJ or certain national dealers wouldn't be buying there and marking them up 40%. Excuse me for wanting to further educate myself before I drop major coins on my first corvette since 1980. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the posts of extremely knowledgeable corvette owners on this forum and have found several who have offered their time to help me get educated. As soon as they start charging a fee to belong to this forum I will be the first to step up and pay. Have a nice day!!!!
Craig
Craig
My point was not to make you feel like we won't help but you are over thinking this. I know that a person who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client. You have to make a decision about the car you like not a profit center. It's not dull material to read about Corvettes unless you don't give a rats ***. Please get involved in this hobby for more than the money.A wise man said. Do what you love to do. The money will come later but it's only a way to keep score. I would be happy to help. I have been around the Corvettes for 35 years
KEN
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,849
Likes: 367
From: PHOENIX AZ. WHAT A MAN WON"T SPEND TO GIVE HIS ASS A RIDE
First off, I agree with Kenba here in principle. He may have mis written or you might have taken it too harsh, but he has a point.
Now for the real lesson. You are a newbie, so be prepared for some flames. Buy a car that you like and for what you feel is a good price. Both of those variables are just that, variable. Don't just buy it cause your 401 is tanking and you're looking for the ultimate buck maker. History and common sense says that they don't make 60's vettes anymore. So the ones that are made are gonna go up in value.
Find a car you like, and buy it. DRive it for a while and hopefully your wife will know it is worth something when she sells your stuff at auction. (Either when you die, or when you get caught with your girlfriend). Good luck with your search.
Now for the real lesson. You are a newbie, so be prepared for some flames. Buy a car that you like and for what you feel is a good price. Both of those variables are just that, variable. Don't just buy it cause your 401 is tanking and you're looking for the ultimate buck maker. History and common sense says that they don't make 60's vettes anymore. So the ones that are made are gonna go up in value.
Find a car you like, and buy it. DRive it for a while and hopefully your wife will know it is worth something when she sells your stuff at auction. (Either when you die, or when you get caught with your girlfriend). Good luck with your search.
THANKS I know I am a old man. It juest gets me when peopes want someone else to make major discions for them. Ie the home subprime crap. People letting the banks tell you how much you can pay a month for a house payment.Now cars are sold by how much it is a month & not the cost of a new car.
KEN
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 2,712
Likes: 1
You sound like you want an expensive car for a driver. If you do this you will be paying quite a premium, especially if documentation is required, for something not intended for a driver. Now as the market has climbed on these cars, a BB midyear will cost some major dollars. By using it as a driver you will be losing the market value rapidly. Want a driver? Buy a car with a NOM and drive it. Who cares if it is original or not? Enjoy it and save yourself some money.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Bonita,Ca.91902;Palm Desert,Ca.92211; Reinholds,Pa.17569
CRAIG
My point was not to make you feel like we won't help but you are over thinking this. I know that a person who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client. You have to make a decision about the car you like not a profit center. It's not dull material to read about Corvettes unless you don't give a rats ***. Please get involved in this hobby for more than the money.A wise man said. Do what you love to do. The money will come later but it's only a way to keep score. I would be happy to help. I have been around the Corvettes for 35 years
KEN
My point was not to make you feel like we won't help but you are over thinking this. I know that a person who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client. You have to make a decision about the car you like not a profit center. It's not dull material to read about Corvettes unless you don't give a rats ***. Please get involved in this hobby for more than the money.A wise man said. Do what you love to do. The money will come later but it's only a way to keep score. I would be happy to help. I have been around the Corvettes for 35 years
KEN
Come on, the Noland Adams books are "technical guides", reference books. They are not lively reading . Start reading at 11PM and there's no way you're still awake at 11:15. The tax code is a reference guide too but also not very lively reading even if you're an IRS agent and love taxes. I do get your point though and I do appreciate your total passion for corvettes, why else would you own so many of them for so many years. I am not buying a car to re-sell it. I doubt that I will ever sell the car that I wind up buying. ( only if I found one I liked more)I consider it an investment only because of it's cost, not because I think I'll ever sell it or make a dime off of it. I'm just trying to learn enough to not get fooled into buying a car that isn't as represented. You are totally correct that I need to go look at cars at NCRS events and talk to owners and judges. This takes time and there are very few opportunities in my area to go to the types of events that will help me differentiate the real from the fake. Most events here are corvette club shows, two a year . I've been to these events for two years. There are very few mid-year cars at these events and almost no original equipped mids. It is quite frustrating to come into this hobby and try to learn what you need to know to make an informed decision about a major purchase. I planned my trip to Pa. last year near the end of August( August in Pa. is no treat!) just so I could attend seminars, judging, and the auction at Carlisle. The day before the show started, I was working outside cutting down overgrowth at my house in Reinholds, I turned my ankle and I couldn't get off the sofa for 5 days. ( I, of course, missed the show, disaster storm and all) I had been counting on that trip to fill a major void in my knowledge gap. The forum has helped but there is no substitute for looking at cars and talking to owners. Take care
Craig
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,849
Likes: 367
From: PHOENIX AZ. WHAT A MAN WON"T SPEND TO GIVE HIS ASS A RIDE
Ken,
Come on, the Noland Adams books are "technical guides", reference books. They are not lively reading . Start reading at 11PM and there's no way you're still awake at 11:15. The tax code is a reference guide too but also not very lively reading even if you're an IRS agent and love taxes. I do get your point though and I do appreciate your total passion for corvettes, why else would you own so many of them for so many years. I am not buying a car to re-sell it. I doubt that I will ever sell the car that I wind up buying. ( only if I found one I liked more)I consider it an investment only because of it's cost, not because I think I'll ever sell it or make a dime off of it. I'm just trying to learn enough to not get fooled into buying a car that isn't as represented. You are totally correct that I need to go look at cars at NCRS events and talk to owners and judges. This takes time and there are very few opportunities in my area to go to the types of events that will help me differentiate the real from the fake. Most events here are corvette club shows, two a year . I've been to these events for two years. There are very few mid-year cars at these events and almost no original equipped mids. It is quite frustrating to come into this hobby and try to learn what you need to know to make an informed decision about a major purchase. I planned my trip to Pa. last year near the end of August( August in Pa. is no treat!) just so I could attend seminars, judging, and the auction at Carlisle. The day before the show started, I was working outside cutting down overgrowth at my house in Reinholds, I turned my ankle and I couldn't get off the sofa for 5 days. ( I, of course, missed the show, disaster storm and all) I had been counting on that trip to fill a major void in my knowledge gap. The forum has helped but there is no substitute for looking at cars and talking to owners. Take care
Craig
Come on, the Noland Adams books are "technical guides", reference books. They are not lively reading . Start reading at 11PM and there's no way you're still awake at 11:15. The tax code is a reference guide too but also not very lively reading even if you're an IRS agent and love taxes. I do get your point though and I do appreciate your total passion for corvettes, why else would you own so many of them for so many years. I am not buying a car to re-sell it. I doubt that I will ever sell the car that I wind up buying. ( only if I found one I liked more)I consider it an investment only because of it's cost, not because I think I'll ever sell it or make a dime off of it. I'm just trying to learn enough to not get fooled into buying a car that isn't as represented. You are totally correct that I need to go look at cars at NCRS events and talk to owners and judges. This takes time and there are very few opportunities in my area to go to the types of events that will help me differentiate the real from the fake. Most events here are corvette club shows, two a year . I've been to these events for two years. There are very few mid-year cars at these events and almost no original equipped mids. It is quite frustrating to come into this hobby and try to learn what you need to know to make an informed decision about a major purchase. I planned my trip to Pa. last year near the end of August( August in Pa. is no treat!) just so I could attend seminars, judging, and the auction at Carlisle. The day before the show started, I was working outside cutting down overgrowth at my house in Reinholds, I turned my ankle and I couldn't get off the sofa for 5 days. ( I, of course, missed the show, disaster storm and all) I had been counting on that trip to fill a major void in my knowledge gap. The forum has helped but there is no substitute for looking at cars and talking to owners. Take care
Craig
I am sure they told you at law school preperation & research is what wins cases in court. Please call me if you find a car you like. As a lawyer you know expert testimony helps. I like you. I would be more than happy to help. Sorry I was hard on you. Are you corporate or a trial lawyer. I have been fooling with these cars for 35 years.
KEN
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Bonita,Ca.91902;Palm Desert,Ca.92211; Reinholds,Pa.17569
Neither
Ken
You made fair assumption from my post. I am not nor have I ever been an attorney. I graduated from Univ. of San Diego School of Law in 1976 and decided that lawyering was not for me. I have had several careers since then. For the past five years I have been an investor. This sounds like I am rich, which I am not. I am comfortable. Now you and the forum know way more about me than anyone wanted too. I'm sure that if I met you we would get along great. We need to return this discussion to the simple question I posed at the beginning. I appreciate everyone's input. When I put this thread up I expected a couple of responses. You tweaked me a little bit, newbie initiation. Many of us have way too much time on our hands. Best to you.
Craig
You made fair assumption from my post. I am not nor have I ever been an attorney. I graduated from Univ. of San Diego School of Law in 1976 and decided that lawyering was not for me. I have had several careers since then. For the past five years I have been an investor. This sounds like I am rich, which I am not. I am comfortable. Now you and the forum know way more about me than anyone wanted too. I'm sure that if I met you we would get along great. We need to return this discussion to the simple question I posed at the beginning. I appreciate everyone's input. When I put this thread up I expected a couple of responses. You tweaked me a little bit, newbie initiation. Many of us have way too much time on our hands. Best to you.
Craig
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,849
Likes: 367
From: PHOENIX AZ. WHAT A MAN WON"T SPEND TO GIVE HIS ASS A RIDE
Ken
You made fair assumption from my post. I am not nor have I ever been an attorney. I graduated from Univ. of San Diego School of Law in 1976 and decided that lawyering was not for me. I have had several careers since then. For the past five years I have been an investor. This sounds like I am rich, which I am not. I am comfortable. Now you and the forum know way more about me than anyone wanted too. I'm sure that if I met you we would get along great. We need to return this discussion to the simple question I posed at the beginning. I appreciate everyone's input. When I put this thread up I expected a couple of responses. You tweaked me a little bit, newbie initiation. Many of us have way too much time on our hands. Best to you.
Craig
You made fair assumption from my post. I am not nor have I ever been an attorney. I graduated from Univ. of San Diego School of Law in 1976 and decided that lawyering was not for me. I have had several careers since then. For the past five years I have been an investor. This sounds like I am rich, which I am not. I am comfortable. Now you and the forum know way more about me than anyone wanted too. I'm sure that if I met you we would get along great. We need to return this discussion to the simple question I posed at the beginning. I appreciate everyone's input. When I put this thread up I expected a couple of responses. You tweaked me a little bit, newbie initiation. Many of us have way too much time on our hands. Best to you.
Craig
Hope You find a car you like & is a real Corvette as reperesnted. GOOD LUCK
KEN
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,808
Likes: 24
From: Westport CT
I agree wholeheartedly Gary. An acquaintance of mine who has a Vette restoration shop told me that one of his wealthy clients who came in for paint told him that he had a numbers-match 'restamped' engine and he had purchased 'authenticating' paperwork in the U.S., including a tank sticker that was intentionally soiled, torn and discolored to look authentic. Methinks there are alot of counterfeit 'number's-match' vettes out there.
say it isn't so!
unscrupulous folks out there are creating fake aged tank stickers??
Bastards!!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,476
Likes: 1
From: Where everyone's grandparents come to die, FL
A LOT for HP high optioned cars. Base cars not much. You said you are gaging the market. So! You want free info. to play the Corvette market. GO CALL YOUR BROKER. THIS IS NOT THE NYSE. DO YOU WANT US TO LET YOU TO PLAY ON WHAT WE KNOW. GO BUY A CAR AT BJ
If you realy like the cars join NCRS & educate yourself about old Corvettes. KEN
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 909
Likes: 0
From: Hinsdale IL
St. Jude Donor '06
This topic has peaked my interest, and I am learning what to do and not to do.
On the suggestion of one of the posters, I have gone on line to the NCRS and ordered some of the technical books to help me figure it out.
Thanks!!
On the suggestion of one of the posters, I have gone on line to the NCRS and ordered some of the technical books to help me figure it out.
Thanks!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,876
Likes: 9
From: Toronto Ontario
Al, all numbered parts are important for a matching numbers car. The engine is the heart of the beast and the heart is often the first to go with a Vette. That's why the primary focus is on the engine. Other components are secondary. A heart transplant prolongs life, but it's not 'original equipment'.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,606
Likes: 210
From: Nevada City Ca.
2015 C1 of Year
Pro
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 589
Likes: 0
Probably should just stay out of this but I am so tired of guys talking out of bith sides otheir mouths. Eveyone cries the blues because it isn't a hobby anymore. Back in the day we bought these cars for nothing but used car prices and then got another. Those days are long gone. If money did not figure into the equation to buy why is everyone always "Gauging Interest". The fact of the matter is that 30-40K midyears probably are not much of a car and docs don't really matter. When one is looking to buy a midyear big block that is all correct and is in the six figure price range,one sure as heck should expect bullet proof documentation. In the case of a car lioke that documentation can increase the value 15-20 percent. Whether we like it or not it is not just about enjoying the car but what is it worth? I too have been doing this for over thirty five years so I think I have a clue.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,849
Likes: 367
From: PHOENIX AZ. WHAT A MAN WON"T SPEND TO GIVE HIS ASS A RIDE
Probably should just stay out of this but I am so tired of guys talking out of bith sides otheir mouths. Eveyone cries the blues because it isn't a hobby anymore. Back in the day we bought these cars for nothing but used car prices and then got another. Those days are long gone. If money did not figure into the equation to buy why is everyone always "Gauging Interest". The fact of the matter is that 30-40K midyears probably are not much of a car and docs don't really matter. When one is looking to buy a midyear big block that is all correct and is in the six figure price range,one sure as heck should expect bullet proof documentation. In the case of a car lioke that documentation can increase the value 15-20 percent. Whether we like it or not it is not just about enjoying the car but what is it worth? I too have been doing this for over thirty five years so I think I have a clue.
WELL SAID
KEN
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,808
Likes: 24
From: Westport CT
well, aside from a few cranky old men venting, have we answered the original poster's [innocent] question - do docs add value (let's agree that "value" is a measurable $ impact on the price the general Corvette market will pay) ?
The question was a good one, especially to someone who might be considering a C2 purchase and wants to know how much extra $ solid documentation should be worth.
The question was a good one, especially to someone who might be considering a C2 purchase and wants to know how much extra $ solid documentation should be worth.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,576
Likes: 32
From: Sarasota Florida
To me, personally ? Zero.
That I value is what the old brute does for me, where it takes me emotionally, etc. I'd value it the same if it was worth $1,500 or $150,000.
Old papers, etc? It only matters if you consider your car an investment, i.e., plan on cashing it in at some point, and I'll never sell my 66..... it'll be in my garage when I transition to the afterlife.
That I value is what the old brute does for me, where it takes me emotionally, etc. I'd value it the same if it was worth $1,500 or $150,000.
Old papers, etc? It only matters if you consider your car an investment, i.e., plan on cashing it in at some point, and I'll never sell my 66..... it'll be in my garage when I transition to the afterlife.
Unless you are wanting to win and NCRS award , or documenting and original car...Paperwork is only worth as much as someone else is willing to pay for it..I personally think paperwork is worthless..I bought mine without paperwork..Mine is a 327 300hp 4 spd car..This is a nice driver but that it..I think majority of the owners on this forum have nice drivers..
Good luck
Last edited by Blk63Vette; Feb 25, 2008 at 08:27 AM.
