What value does documentation add ?
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Bonita,Ca.91902;Palm Desert,Ca.92211; Reinholds,Pa.17569
What value does documentation add ?
I've been looking for a BB 66 427/425 documented convertible driver and I've posted in the wtb section. I've been watching e-bay and other auctions for about a year, trying to guage the market. My question is:
Given the same, exact car, say a 66 427/425 convertible ,original all numbers matching car, what does documentation add to the price ?(assume documentation consists of owner's warrranty protection booklet and protecto plate)Then, pop plus original sales invoice, how much more? I know this is totally subjective but I'm interested in what others think documentation brings to the table. Thanks.
Craig
Given the same, exact car, say a 66 427/425 convertible ,original all numbers matching car, what does documentation add to the price ?(assume documentation consists of owner's warrranty protection booklet and protecto plate)Then, pop plus original sales invoice, how much more? I know this is totally subjective but I'm interested in what others think documentation brings to the table. Thanks.
Craig
Racer
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 473
Likes: 25
From: La Quinta CA
Craig -
I think a protecto plate or other previous owner history just helps to validate the integrity of the car - not so much to add value in terms of dollars. I've discussed this issue with quite a few other people in this hobby, most seem to agree that cars that can be determined to have their original engines and drive trains will always command a higher price than the alternatives.
With the subjective nature of judging engine pads, and the technology of producing "restored" engines with "correctly stamped" engine pads, its really hard to separate the real thing from the imposters. Sometimes the documentation can help in this situation.
Good luck in your search - and don't hesitate to ask for assistance in evaluating your potential purchase. You are very close to a number of people in So Cal who could give you another opinion.
Regards,
Bob
I think a protecto plate or other previous owner history just helps to validate the integrity of the car - not so much to add value in terms of dollars. I've discussed this issue with quite a few other people in this hobby, most seem to agree that cars that can be determined to have their original engines and drive trains will always command a higher price than the alternatives.
With the subjective nature of judging engine pads, and the technology of producing "restored" engines with "correctly stamped" engine pads, its really hard to separate the real thing from the imposters. Sometimes the documentation can help in this situation.
Good luck in your search - and don't hesitate to ask for assistance in evaluating your potential purchase. You are very close to a number of people in So Cal who could give you another opinion.
Regards,
Bob
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,461
Likes: 18
From: cooper city florida
I think a well documented car will sell quicker and also the seller is more likely to get his asking price and maybe even more. It would also bring top dollar at a auction. The non documented car may take longer to sell,and the seller might have to take less than his asking price. The trouble today is,its just as likely that the documentation are fakes.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Bonita,Ca.91902;Palm Desert,Ca.92211; Reinholds,Pa.17569
documentation, adding a twist
Thank you for your responses. Let's add a twist. Same car except now it is an NOM drive train. Assume the documentation is real and confirms that the car was an original BB car. How much difference in price between a car that is a probable clone as opposed to a what is a documented original BB car?
Craig
Craig
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 0
From: Hawaii
Thank you for your responses. Let's add a twist. Same car except now it is an NOM drive train. Assume the documentation is real and confirms that the car was an original BB car. How much difference in price between a car that is a probable clone as opposed to a what is a documented original BB car?
Craig
Craig
Kinda like marrying a stripper who just had a bewb reduction. 
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 1
From: Reno NV
Don't Forget The Repair & Service Receipts Either.........
I was fortunate to have some original documentation of my 1966 small block convertible when I bought it; as well as several folders of recipts and repair orders going back to the first owner. Very invaluable when you otherwise have little clue what sort of upgrades and service has been done on a 42 year old car.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 13,835
Likes: 1,857
From: Birmingham Mi
I think it goes without saying that documentation adds to the value of the car but the biggest piece of mind to the prospective buyer is that he is buying the real deal. What is the saying..........priceless 
Racer
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 282
Likes: 1
From: Euclid ohio
I would say it depends on the car.If it is a low horse car docs not really that important.If it is a rare L88 maybe as much as $100+K
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Instructor
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
From: Montreal Quebec
Same question posed to a very knowledgeable NCRS Mid Year Big Block expert yeilded the following answer: "Verifyable documentation would be equal to 1/3 of the value of the car. Another 1/3 would be original engine and drivetrain."
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 442
From: Southwest MI
To me, personally ? Zero.
That I value is what the old brute does for me, where it takes me emotionally, etc. I'd value it the same if it was worth $1,500 or $150,000.
Old papers, etc? It only matters if you consider your car an investment, i.e., plan on cashing it in at some point, and I'll never sell my 66..... it'll be in my garage when I transition to the afterlife.
That I value is what the old brute does for me, where it takes me emotionally, etc. I'd value it the same if it was worth $1,500 or $150,000.
Old papers, etc? It only matters if you consider your car an investment, i.e., plan on cashing it in at some point, and I'll never sell my 66..... it'll be in my garage when I transition to the afterlife.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,606
Likes: 210
From: Nevada City Ca.
2015 C1 of Year
I don't put much value in to having paper work for a C2 because everything is repro'ed now so it's hard to tell.
C1 has none to speek of so you just need to know what your buying,the big problem in C1's is all the repro stuff out there .
Again with all the repro paper work, stamping and repro parts you really have to know what your looking at, I know the 55 inside out so it don't worry me buying one.
I just feel so sorry for new people now days buying any Corvette,on trusting paper work, they need some friend that knows what their buying go over it. My best advice is to pay what it takes to have some one like that go with you.But few people do then cry about what they bought .
C1 has none to speek of so you just need to know what your buying,the big problem in C1's is all the repro stuff out there .
Again with all the repro paper work, stamping and repro parts you really have to know what your looking at, I know the 55 inside out so it don't worry me buying one.
I just feel so sorry for new people now days buying any Corvette,on trusting paper work, they need some friend that knows what their buying go over it. My best advice is to pay what it takes to have some one like that go with you.But few people do then cry about what they bought .
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 2,897
Likes: 0
From: Moon Township PA
I like documentation but even that, anymore, is suspect. Too many people have been refining their counterfeiting of paperwork so that you need a document expert to tell if it is legitimate or not.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,808
Likes: 24
From: Westport CT
ineteresting topic. While it is certainly true that, for some, documentation adds no value (just as, for some, a few numbers on an engine stamp pad mean nothing) the fact is the C2 marketplace does ascribe some value (in the context of a sale) to real documentation in the form of MSOs, Tank Sheets, original dealer invoices or BOSs, etc. - probably more so for BBs than for SBs.
I don't have a $ amount or % to throw out there though. That's why I find the topic and the posts interesting.
I don't have a $ amount or % to throw out there though. That's why I find the topic and the posts interesting.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,849
Likes: 367
From: PHOENIX AZ. WHAT A MAN WON"T SPEND TO GIVE HIS ASS A RIDE
I've been looking for a BB 66 427/425 documented convertible driver and I've posted in the wtb section. I've been watching e-bay and other auctions for about a year, trying to guage the market. My question is:
Given the same, exact car, say a 66 427/425 convertible ,original all numbers matching car, what does documentation add to the price ?(assume documentation consists of owner's warrranty protection booklet and protecto plate)Then, pop plus original sales invoice, how much more? I know this is totally subjective but I'm interested in what others think documentation brings to the table. Thanks.
Craig
Given the same, exact car, say a 66 427/425 convertible ,original all numbers matching car, what does documentation add to the price ?(assume documentation consists of owner's warrranty protection booklet and protecto plate)Then, pop plus original sales invoice, how much more? I know this is totally subjective but I'm interested in what others think documentation brings to the table. Thanks.
Craig
A LOT for HP high optioned cars. Base cars not much. You said you are gaging the market. So! You want free info. to play the Corvette market. GO CALL YOUR BROKER. THIS IS NOT THE NYSE. DO YOU WANT US TO LET YOU TO PLAY ON WHAT WE KNOW. GO BUY A CAR AT BJ
If you realy like the cars join NCRS & educate yourself about old Corvettes. KEN
Last edited by kenba; Feb 23, 2008 at 05:31 PM.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Bonita,Ca.91902;Palm Desert,Ca.92211; Reinholds,Pa.17569
easy for you to say.....
To me, personally ? Zero.
That I value is what the old brute does for me, where it takes me emotionally, etc. I'd value it the same if it was worth $1,500 or $150,000.
Old papers, etc? It only matters if you consider your car an investment, i.e., plan on cashing it in at some point, and I'll never sell my 66..... it'll be in my garage when I transition to the afterlife.
That I value is what the old brute does for me, where it takes me emotionally, etc. I'd value it the same if it was worth $1,500 or $150,000.
Old papers, etc? It only matters if you consider your car an investment, i.e., plan on cashing it in at some point, and I'll never sell my 66..... it'll be in my garage when I transition to the afterlife.
Craig
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,876
Likes: 9
From: Toronto Ontario
I agree wholeheartedly Gary. An acquaintance of mine who has a Vette restoration shop told me that one of his wealthy clients who came in for paint told him that he had a numbers-match 'restamped' engine and he had purchased 'authenticating' paperwork in the U.S., including a tank sticker that was intentionally soiled, torn and discolored to look authentic. Methinks there are alot of counterfeit 'number's-match' vettes out there.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,864
Likes: 5
From: OZ City, Kansas, The Land of AHHHHHHS!
Not an NCR guy, so if I had to choose, with the passing age of these cars, I would rather be given a pile of photos and restoration & maintenance receipts, rather than "questionable" prior ownership documents or build sheet paper work; which to me would be more or less just for interest sake...not provenance.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Bonita,Ca.91902;Palm Desert,Ca.92211; Reinholds,Pa.17569
Hey, I'm not running for office...
A LOT for HP high optioned cars. Base cars not much. You said you are gaging the market. So! You want free info. to play the Corvette market. GO CALL YOUR BROKER. THIS IS NOT THE NYSE. DO YOU WANT US TO LET YOU TO PLAY ON WHAT WE KNOW. GO BUY A CAR AT BJ
If you realy like the cars join NCRS & educate yourself about old Corvettes. KEN
Craig
Last edited by vettelessinsandiego; Feb 23, 2008 at 06:18 PM. Reason: typo
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,849
Likes: 367
From: PHOENIX AZ. WHAT A MAN WON"T SPEND TO GIVE HIS ASS A RIDE
cause you've probably owned your corvette for many years. I appreciate the passion and love corvette owners have for their cars and I hope to experience that again soon. I wish I could write a check for $ 100k for one of these cars saying, " I really like the car because it's blue ." If I'm writing a check for that amount of coin ,it's an investment, whether I ever sell it or not. Please put yourself in my place. I haven't owned a corvette since 1980, when numbers matching and cloning weren't concerns. I'm going to have to pay big bucks (in my world) to acquire a BB car. I can't approach this like a trip to the grocery store. By the way, I clip coupons for that too. I just want a real car at a fair deal, just like you got when you bought your car. Keep the passion.
Craig
Craig
KEN
