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1966 L88 COPO - Are there documented cases of this????

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1966 L88 COPO - Are there documented cases of this????

 
Old 03-23-2008, 09:24 AM
  #21  
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This is John's DOCUMENTED St. Louis built 56 SR1. Notice several unique features such as rear brake scoops and the double pulley generator.






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Old 03-23-2008, 11:42 AM
  #22  
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Regarding the 1966 "L88s", consider the 15 M22 transmissions listed in the factory production records. At the risk of speculating, I believe that the VIN numbers of these 15 cars-- most if not all L72s with the "IK" engine suffix-- are known. These engines were specially built and considered the predessesor to the L88. But this thread would need some help from those in the know or just to tell me that I don't know what I am talking about. Happy Easter!
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Old 03-23-2008, 01:33 PM
  #23  
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My Error I believed all the other stuff written that there were none!!! After reading the articles on this car I do have some questions though. First, wouldn't this car have a serial number in sequence to the other production corvettes of 1966. It would also have a trim code plate? It was built on the production line so one would think that the car would have these two items. That being the case, would it not be correct to say that one (1) L-88 was produced in the 1966 model year and all the records are wrong? To include Noland Adams book? According to the articles on this car, Dick Guldstrand picked the car up in St Louis and drove it to PA with only blankets to keep him warm as car was heater delete. Leads me to the fact that it would have had to have a factory serial number in order to do so. What does the title show???? Lastly, the articles state that the engine was rated at 425 HP when it left the factory. Was this a way to get by corporate to promote the racing program for Chevrolet by Duntov and associates under the guise that this was only a production L-72?

Steve
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Old 03-23-2008, 02:04 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by aworks View Post
With KyleDallas. I talked to Dick in PA. We where standing in front of Kevin Mackays 66. What would Dick have to gain by making this up? Also there was an RPO# in 66 for the L88. It's in the AIM. I copied the eng. details from Kevins car for my GS roadster. I talked to Kevin early one moring when he was pulling the cover off the car. He let me take very detailed pics.

Heres two pics. The first is Kevins car the second is my car. I had to make the hood and air box for this car.
[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]
Hi aworks

I have noticed your expierance with high performance corvettes in the past and once again you have referenced something that has caught my attention........... that being your making a L88 style cold air intake system that worked with a 66 BB hood.

I have a 66 BB hood on top of a motor that needs a lot of air but to date all I have known to do is remove the rain shields and install a breathe through lid.

Anything you would be willing to share on constructing a cold air intake with a 66 BB hood (or know where to obtain one) would be greatly appreciated.

Doug
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Old 03-23-2008, 02:06 PM
  #25  
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Hard to believe this car has a L-88?

What's hard to believe is that a person would keep a car like this in a garage at his residence with no insurance. Now that's hard to believe.
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Old 03-23-2008, 05:09 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Shurshot View Post
Hi aworks

I have noticed your expierance with high performance corvettes in the past and once again you have referenced something that has caught my attention........... that being your making a L88 style cold air intake system that worked with a 66 BB hood.

I have a 66 BB hood on top of a motor that needs a lot of air but to date all I have known to do is remove the rain shields and install a breathe through lid.

Anything you would be willing to share on constructing a cold air intake with a 66 BB hood (or know where to obtain one) would be greatly appreciated.

Doug

Doug. It took alot of work to do and would be a very long post to explain it. You are more than welcome to PM me and I will give you my number. I will tell you what I did. Heres a pic of what the hood looks like. And yes that is Dick himself standing next to my GS. It now lives in Calif. and has a very good home.[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:06 PM
  #27  
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great reading guys, cool stuff, thanks for sharing.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:50 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by aworks View Post
Doug. It took alot of work to do and would be a very long post to explain it. You are more than welcome to PM me and I will give you my number. I will tell you what I did. Heres a pic of what the hood looks like. And yes that is Dick himself standing next to my GS. It now lives in Calif. and has a very good home.[IMG][/IMG]

WOW !

That is the hood the hood that GM should have made....

I question if I could do that quality of work but you have planted a seed in my mind...... I think that is absolutely gorgeous........

I suppose if I had my druthers it would have the height to allow a spacer for even more "free HP"

Thanks for sharing that photo.......... I am going to show it to someone who could help me (corvette body man) with some basics and then send you a PM.

Doug
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:40 PM
  #29  
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Wow, great info. Enjoyed going through all the links and pics. Good to see a bit of Corvette history being restored to perfection. Thanks
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:47 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by john neas View Post
Kyle
You are talking about RPO documentation after 42 years. Let me vent on a similar car. I have a St Louis built 56 SR. In the last 10 years I have been given or obtained.
(1)contemporary magazine articles stating available options
(2)original cancelled check
(3)original invoice
(4)engineering build order
(5)original RPO workpapers (some pages handwritten)
(6)complete RPO listing
(7)some factory blueprints
(8)all parts have production part numbers
(9)original owners card and pin
Yet at least one "expert" refuses to recognize the car as a production car. Thanks for listening.
Regards
Sad to hear of your struggles but Im not surprised to be honest...
An expert a##hole and someone with suspect document
evaluation and deductive reasoning skills is what it sounds like to me.

I might pursue an interview with a St. Louis employee at the time...
and would document and verify the persons employment
at the Corvette plant.
When I studied Historiography, a course on the methods and principles
used in Historical research, back in my College days- I was informed
that a 1st person interview of a witness to a historical event was a valid instrument with the credentials nessasary to be used in Academic Research and Papers... Doctoral
Thesis' and Academic Books.

So if if the expert in question failed to receive that information...
He would be at odds with the accepted methods used at Harvard, Yale
and every University in the country.... In effect, proclaiming
himself smarter than the "dupes" working at those establishments and
using those methods... I kind of doubt that's the reality of things.

I suspect you will prevail in your fight, John... usually, a giant wave
of some kind usually comes to sweep these types away.....
Good luck.... sorry this hasn't been easier for you.

Last edited by KyleDallas; 03-24-2008 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:54 PM
  #31  
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It would probably be wise for the NCRS to use the academic standard
in regards to documentation and information discovery... it would
assure a level of credibility accepted at the highest levels.
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:18 AM
  #32  
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As someone else noted 'a great read here'.
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Old 07-30-2008, 09:12 AM
  #33  
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The following is directly related to the early cars that John (Neas) has acquired and restored to a previous condition in the past.
John has (and I guess always has had) a strong passion for the early, one off, special performance cars, particularly early the very early Corvettes and the development on the early cars which ultimately brought today's Corvette to its place in the automotive performance world.
There is VERY little information and/or documantation about the earliest efforts to turn the Corvette program around and keep it alive. Some of the most important information and documentation has been accumulated by people such as John Neas and Ken Kayser. When John has been interested in a particular car, he has gone to great lengths to obtain accurate and credible information and documentation to support the restoration of a particular car. Through the years, I have worked on, and become quite familiar with some of these cars. And I have personally seen the letters and documention that has been used to support the restoration of John's cars to a configuration of their bygone days.
Furthermore, if a car CANNOT be supported by accurate historical documentation, he won't continue with the restoration. A particular example is (was) a purported, "genuine" 57 Airbox car that John acquired and had intended to restore to a 57 era race configuration. As he pursued the history and background of the car, it was eventually determined to be a non-genuine Airbox car. In time, John was able to return the car for a refund.
Today, in 2008, visiting with St. Louis assembly line workers from the 50s, will be nearly impossible, if not to say difficult at the very best. So, all we have to go on for the most part, is the various pieces of information, copies of shop orders, engineering letters, etc, etc, that have been acquired by dedicated enthusiasts such as John Neas.
What's sad, is that when this kind of rare information is presented, to support what was done during the early days of design, engineering and development of a particular car and/or equipment, which eventually (maybe even in some small way) found its way to later production cars, that information is dismissed rather than examined and recognized as legitimate historical evidence regarding the "birth" of something new.
I mentioned earlier in an above comment, and I'll briefly repeat, John's supporting historical evidence for the tiny handful of St. Louis assembly line built SR1 cars, plus, the addition supporting information accumulated by a long term GM employee (Ken Kayser) as to the time frame these cars went down the assembly line, is stronger and more believeable that the contradictions that refute it!!!
On one hand, you have black and white information on a GM letterhead, and on the other hand, someone says that its "not good enough" documentation.
I could go on and on about this, but I've probably already said too much.

Last edited by DZAUTO; 07-30-2008 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 07-30-2008, 05:45 PM
  #34  
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in 1966 if you had "connections" you could get a HD 427 which was a L-88 engine with cast iron heads. i know of one with a big tank that was bought new.
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Old 07-30-2008, 09:06 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by PAmotorman View Post
in 1966 if you had "connections" you could get a HD 427 which was a L-88 engine with cast iron heads. i know of one with a big tank that was bought new.

I cannot confirm the above to be factual (but believe it to be true) however I have seen where there was a "special performance" balancer listed for 427 motors in 66 that is not the same one called for with a L72 that was the highest HP motor available in 66......... at least without having the above said "connections".

Doug
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:15 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by 65coupe View Post
Corvette Fever magazine published an article about 15 years ago regarding the discovery of a real deal 66 vert with L88. The car was used for racing and the top half of the windshield and windsheild post were cut off. I have a copy of the mag somewhere. The car was restored and the windsheild repaired.
I remember that also. It was documented and the roll bar evidence was still there from when it was raced. It was, in fact, a factory back door L88.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:26 PM
  #37  
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Ya, but they'll TF a Callaway now ( )and stand on the podium with those gabroni's at BJ's.... Me thinks it's just about the $$$ now.. They've lost their way (for the most part) and original premise behind the NCRS...

/jc


Originally Posted by DZAUTO View Post
John is somewhat modest and holding back some information about his 56 SR1 car, so I'll chime in here on his behalf.
With all this documentation that John has accumulated for the small handful of 56 SR cars (even Ken Kayser in his new book relates the time frame when these few cars were assembled at St. Louis), NCRS has denied accepting his IMMACULATELY restored SR1 for Flight judging.
As a result, NCRS has essentially shot themselves in the foot, because they do not get to enjoy any of John's unique early Vettes at any of the NCRS events.
By the way, I have personally seen all of the above documentation that John mentioned.
Here is some of it.




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Old 07-31-2008, 12:12 AM
  #38  
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Larry Martin called me this afternoon to say his 56 SR was invited to the Pebble Beach Concours to be judged as a production car. Please stop by on August 17th to see his car. His car was made 11 cars before mine. His car also has received Bloominton Gold and there is a picture of it in the third issue of Corvette News.
Regards
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Old 07-31-2008, 12:24 AM
  #39  
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no 66 production to the general public built l88, racers and the like did slip stuff out the door, that was what copo really was for to get around the corporate higer ups.
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Old 07-31-2008, 01:12 AM
  #40  
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Parts of the yellow 66 were found abut 2 weeks later. the frame and body was cut up and the guys were trying to sell it for scrap. DUH The last I hear the motor and trans have not been found.
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