Well, I never thought I'd be pulling a darn trans out EVER, but Ron forced, er, I mean, encouraged me to take it out while the engine is out to inspect it. We thought we'd might as well replace the front bearing while opened, but they cost $107. at Napa! Probably just leave it. Seems that everyhting else is good in there but we're not sure if it's missing a front seal or not. By that, I mean wayyyyy in the front, as seen in the pic. I've seen vendors selling front seals for these, but not sure if mine uses one, since it didn't have one where it's noted. Should there be one there? What else should I do now that it's open? Any suggestions?

Cover before opening.


Getting a new camera that can focus worth a darn.


Circled in red seeps a little. Teal arrows show where those two plate up against each other. Yellow is what I'm wondering if there should be a seal in there. Looks like there may be no room since the threaded part on the right looks like it fits right in there in the left.


I figure that the gear oil that was leaking was coming from the front bearing cover...after taking the French locks off, the bolts were only finger tight (or loose I should say!) Probably coming from that gasket, and the rest of the tranny is A OK!

BTW, since the tranny was out, Ron suggested I take the driveshaft out too. He said it's a piece of cake. Well, I beg to differ, but I got it out and replaced the U joints. I guess I'm lucky that he didn't make me take out the darn differential as well!

 

No seal up there, just the slinger and the drain.

 

Where's the nut that screws onto the threads up there?

If it seeps oil around your red circle, the shaft is loose in the case and the case and shaft likely will need to be replaced.

 

Or the case hole bored out and bushed. But there are many of us running around with glob of permatex applied there when installing the transmision to the bellhousing. Just depends how far into it you want to go at this time.

 

i agree wombvette, no seal, just the slinger and the drain.
claysmoker, the nut/slinger is there, look closely, Dokk just obscured it with the squiggley yellow cricle he drew.

Dokk,s trans is in great shape inside. the synchro notches, gear notches that the sliders they engage with are nice and sharp and not rounded off like normally with these old muncies. cluster gear endplay is minimal, tailshaft bushing is tight. spinning the main/tail shaft in the trans in neutral spins everything in the trans but the input shaft (if you hold it at the same time) turning the mainshaft/tailshaft, everything is dead smooth and silent--a good test. the front/input shaft bearing is smooth when turning, not bad by any means, but has a very slight woosh (for lack of a better term). i have done enough muncies to know it seems the front bearing always wears the most. i told Dokk "replace the front bearing because you are allready there"

HOLY COWS!!! NAPA wants $107 for that silly ball bearing.... Dokks bearing is not that bad to spend the crazy $107 to replace it. can anybody point him to a reasonably priced bearing.

"DOKK, shut up..." with the tranny out pulling the driveshaft out was a no brainer. the front U-joint was practacally locked up on one axis. i thought it was just another bad u joint (the drive shaft u joints are way smaller than the half shaft Ujoints, no biggie, the half shafts do all the flexing. this is the hot setup for road racing)
DOKK is a drag racer, so the driveshaft joints are way weaker. well it seems like BUBBA must have worked on your car too. BUBBA tightened the U bolts down until on the Ujoints until the cups distorted and just locked all the needle bearings in place. DOKK, unclamping bubbas fix freed up the front joints, you made the i am PUI, i give up , smell you later...

 

You're right mech, I'm old and can't see let alone with dokk's pen marks. :[/QUOTE]

 

When I lived near Memphis, I'd always stop by Dixie Bearings on Lamar Avenue for all my bearing needs. Doing a Google search, I see that Dixie Bearings has outlets in North Carolina, Mobile, Alabama, and several other locations. I'd try checking one of these out . . . .

 

I would replace that input bearing but you might want to check around for a better price. I found one here in town for $65.00, Since you have the trans out I would replace the tail bushing and seal. It will take no time to perform that task and it beats pulling the trans out later.

 

If you decide to replace the input shaft bearing, depending on what ratio trans you have (and therefore, the diameter of the input shaft gear), the gear MIGHT come out through the front of the case when you pull on it. If it does, be ready to catch the roller bearings that support the input shaft on the mainshaft. It's not a big deal to put them back in place but don't be surprised if they fall out.

It's best to pull the shaft with the input shaft pointing down so the bearings come with it. If not, they'll fall into the case and then you have to get them out, You can hold them inside of the input shaft with grease or vaseline when you get ready to put it back together. If the gear WON'T come out through the front, you will have to pull the cluster gear (the big gearset in the bottom of the case) to get the input shaft out. To pull the cluster, you have to disassemble the whole box.

Just don't want you to buy the bearing without knowing what it takes to replace it.

Hope that helps,

Steve

 

www.rockauto.com Has a Timken N1307L for $52.79.

 

The red circle area is a common problem.Before filling with oil. degrease the area. Cover the area in oil resistant sealant, smooth it flush with the case and let dry completey. Then assemble to bellhousing. Worked for me. I am told it has worked for many others too. Save your money.

 

It always pays to visit your local industrial parts supply house. Ball bearings, bronze bushings, V belts, lip seals, O rings, snap rings, etc. Lots more reasonable.

Even HTD timing belts for your blower.

 

You can drop the cluster without taking it out as long as you use an arbor to partially support it in the case. However, the mainshaft will have to come out if the input enter from inside the case and that might be a good time to look at the needle bearings in the cluster. These are not big operations. Four speeds, like the Warner, Muncie, and Ford Toploader are pretty straightforward and easy to work on, especially the Muncie and Warner.

 

Right you are Dan. I've done many and just wanted him to realize what was involved before he bought the bearing and then discovered he couldn't put it in without disassembling the tranny. My suggestion would be to pull it apart and put a small parts kit in it (all new needles and spacers) as well as a new input bearing and a new output sleeve bearing and seal. It'll never be easier to get to than it is now.

Steve

 

OK, wait! Now you guys are starting to scare the sheiza out of me. I think the bearing looks fine. This Muncie is supposed to be "bullet proof", right? Why fix it if it ain't broken!
I'm orderimg a gasket kit from CC for 20 bucks and be done with it.

 

Not bad logic (why fix it if it ain't broken?) but... and that's a BIG but... it'll never be easier than it is now to freshen it up and then you won't have to worry about it. It won't cost THAT much more to KNOW it is in good shape.

I know about "project creep" but I also know about having to do the job twice and I'd much rather do it once and do it right.

Just my thoughts....

Steve

 

HOLY CRAP, Dan H and 67*427, you have scared the crap out of Dokk. he is my buddy, this is his first muncie teardown. i have probably built and rebuilt more muncies (and saganws, T-10s, borg warners and the 70s super T-10s) than both of you have ever seen together at my shop. no offence is intended but Dokk in in good hands. being retired now i just do an occasional 4, 5 or 6 speed for fun....

have either of you built a modded 60s muncie for road racing?? i have built several. a better question is have either of you ever built a muncie "CRASH BOX" that was used in gassers for drag racing in the late 60s-early 70s. i have built several. they were based on motorcycle transmissions. toss the shifting dogs, toss the synchros, machine every other spline off the sliders, grind every other v notch off the gears the sliders engage to. VIOLA, a motorcycle trans, or a CRASH BOX. you could row smoothly through all 4 gears at full throttle without even touching the clutch pedal.

as for the front bearing, Dokks muncie is a wide ratio. that front bearing is a piece of cake to replace. the input shaft will NOT come out through the front, you would have to completely disassemble the trans, pull the front bearing as we may do, then pull the input shaft with the bearing removed back and out the side cover hole.

as for just replacing the front bearings you guys are all all wet.

 

Front bearing is a snap. put trans in 2 gears at once, which locks shafts. Remove the nut on input , and pry bearing out the front. Install new bearing tighten nut with locktite, and take out of gear.

 

thanks landshark, that dropped off the end off my post. that's exactly how i do it. it is indeed simple...

 

You tell em mechron.