Blackfoot Big Block

The thread on how many C2's still have their original engines has me a bit confused and I'm hoping for an explanation from someone knowledgeable .

Various people posted that a significant percentage of the original engines were "blown" decades ago. I don't think many folks knew then that these cars would be worth the money today that they are.

So I would think the vast majority of the original engines were scrapped. But here's where I'm baffled. [I'll use a 1966 427 engine as an example.] I know Chevrolet offered the 427/425 engine in other vehicles such as the Impala, but it's not like they built a gazillion of them back then. And how many of those vehicles are still around? Some of those cars are now sought after and it probably isn't financially viable to buy a 427 Impala for say $25-30K just to harvest the engine from.

I just don't see it being a relatively simple undertaking to create a numbers matching car. I would think the inventory of required parts must be pretty small.

Mike Ward

I've been told not to stir things up on the original engine vs. matching numbers terminology issue, so I'm afraid your question must go unanswered.

JohnZ

It's not that difficult; in addition to the actual engine assemblies built for production usage, there were thousands of blocks, heads, cranks, intakes, etc. made for GM Service stocks, and almost any configuration can be duplicated with period-correct casting numbers and dates. Just takes time and money.

63Corvette

But John.....does that make it "original"???

White Monster

Obviously there is a difference between original engine vs. matching numbers.

As I see it, the Original Engine is the actual motor that came with the vehicle from the factory.

A Matching Numbers engine is obviously the motor with a manufacturing stamped number on the block that matches the VIN. Usually the "original" engine.

Period or Era correct, just means it was manufactured in the same timeframe of the vehicle, but could have been in any particular vehicle of the era.

If I got it wrong, post up and clear the air !!

Godholio

There are a variety of opinions on this one.

JohnZ

Absolutely not, but the seller will call it "numbers-matching", "correct", or some other obfuscation; there was only one "original".

AZDoug

You don't have to buy an entire car, there are tens of thousands of pulled 427 motors out of old Impalas that were wrecked, or simply worn out, and the motors squirreled away in garages and repair shops waiting for the owner to want to sell it, or the right buyer stumbling across it. I don't think too many BB's went to manhole covers like SB's did in the 1970s and 1980's.

Doug

tjstarduster

amen john z. those engines did not have near the durability of todays motors. most vette owners i knew back in the 60's were on their second engine within a year or so. that doesn't mean some originals did not survive, but the odds were against it. these cars were hammered hard every saturday nite; blown engines, stripped gears, blown clutches, broken drive shafts were not uncommon, and after 3 or 4 months of hard racing the rings wore out and the engine began to smoke. most of us kids back then wanted to have the baddest car in town which made you push it to the limit when the flagman dropped his arms. don't fool yourself these are great cars, but very few are still "original".

Kerrmudgeon

JohnZ;"It's not that difficult; in addition to the actual engine assemblies built for production usage, there were thousands of blocks, heads, cranks, intakes, etc. made for GM Service stocks, and almost any configuration can be duplicated with period-correct casting numbers and dates. Just takes time and money."

In addition to these, there were a gazillion trucks on the road, and a lot of them had the same blocks, although there were also truck 427's that were a little different, but also show up in cars nowadays. Just check out the ads for engine blocks in Hemming's, there are thousands of them in warehouses to date.

oldsarge

How about just calling them, period correct, I know you can take parts of engines and piece together a matching number engine, it may not have come from that car, however with numbers and dates, who really knows, I am sure GM boys just pick parts of the shelf that was closest to them, or shift changes, before the engine was complete, and the next guy might have gone to another area on the shelf, numbers are numbers and if they match, well?

Frankie the Fink

And we are all proud of you Mike...I know you've been biting your tongue until it bled..

Mike Ward

And your response is better than a nudge-nudge wink-wink. If you what I mean.

Ironcross

Using the 66 427 Vette as an example there were engines sold over the counter with all the correct stampings but not with a Vin number because it was never scheduled for any car, Vette or otherwise...I was buying complete 427`s and transplanting them in Drag boats and everything else in a quest to go fast in everything...I have in a 68 Camaro a correct 'IP' 427 without a vin number and used several 'IT' 427`s also... If one is worried about correctness, this could easily be correct in a Vette by stamping the Vin of the car in the bare section on the pad. Ignoring or omitting the phrase 'original and merely say its 'matching numbers with out being wrong...

LSUvetteguy

I've been discounting the phrase "original engine" for years. These cars are 40+ years old and it's doubtfull any current owner can be sure the engine in the car now is the same one that came in the car when new. Numbers matching is somthing I can verify. M2C

1snake

I can guarantee my 65 has a 100% original drive train. Don't believe me? I'm willing to put money on it.

Jim

MikeM

Ditto!

LSUvetteguy

If you are the original owner of the car I might believe you. Otherwise the guarantee means about as much as "the check is in the mail" or "Baby, I promise I won't ...".

I have a friend with a 72 that he bought when it was about six months old. He took over the note and he KNEW the car was all original. We had it judged and found the windshield date was wrong. The original owner still lives in town so we called him. He said that within a week of getting the car the windshield was broken and replaced.

1snake

I bought it from the original owner and have a complete documented history from the day it was ordered.

Your example is just another case of someone not checking out a car prior to purchase, however having the windshield replaced doesn't mean it's not an original car. Mine does have all it's original glass in perfect condition. Oh, and all the numbers are original AND match.

Jim

bb62

I can also guarantee that the 435HP engine in my 67 is the original (and unrestored) engine.

Furthermore, Al Grenning can, by examining the broach marks on the stamp pad, also guarantee whether or not any particular cylinder case is the original or not. And anybody purchasing a mid year big block who doesn't verify the engine with Al (if claimed as original) is penny wise and pound foolish.