I just attended the regional at McDormans last week. I have to admit that I had a great time and that the judges, team leader, fellow members etc. could not have been nicer to me. The judging chairman even came over and introduced himself and thanked me for bringing my car. One member even helped me correct the routing of my wiring harness and refused any compansation.

 

I like to be the little people in NCRS the person who has to drive there car to the event. work for years to restore the car to get a top flight. and get to know all the real corvette people in the club. the ones who are like me and my dad. who understands and been down the same road. the people who are chasing dollars in the club are just that. they can be nice to you and others fit the bill

 

I have to agree with "1snake" in his previous post, concerning Mike Ward stirring the pot. No one was bashing the NCRS, of which I am also a member. It's tiring to listen to Mike, whining about the NCRS being bashed.

So what, someone gets a little ruffled about the clipboard, straw hat guys looking down their noses at someone's bubba Corvette? Who cares?

I say, get over it and stay on the NCRS Tech Board. When I'm on the Tech Board, I don't see anyone bashing the Corvette Forum guys.

 

100%

 

but I also never heard anybody saying anything good about us over here too

 

I spend most of my waking hours on the courts--I take umbrage at the tennis shoe remark.

 

I don't know.......I think there are many of us here who are in the NCRS. I just don't hear many with the need to toot thier own NCRS horn.

I restore cars for judging for a living but don't feel the need to carry the NCRS or even the SACC flag yelling it to the mountains. I just do my own thing and enjoy the Tech Board and the CF site.

I actually do not enjoy the judging process at all. While nearly all of the judges I have encountered have been very nice guys, there always seems to be one that arrogantly makes his notes and has that "stigma" that is bashed here on this forum.

Example
A certain guy was judging a 53 this year at a Regional event and was looking at the trim. He was a long time judge, I might add. He very flipintly made his comments that the bumper trim didn't fit very well, in his opinion, and made his deductions. That very trim was the original GM 53 trim, attached to the very NO HIT car that it was born with. The only way for any of it to fit any better would have been to massage the body or the trim pieces. I firmly believe that this should NOT be done.

If he had been half as knowledgeable as he thought he was, he would have made note that the trim fit just as it left the factory. TFP......


These types of NCRS guys are the reason for the bashing BUT bashing will not help, IMO. Everyone just needs to relax and enjoy the hobby and pay no attention to the bashers OR the "NCRS know it all" types.

NCRS #27131

 

Corvette is the coin. On one side = modified. The other side = NCRS bone stock. To claim that there is only One True Path ignores the fact that one cannot exist without the other. I happen to be on the modified side. But I can appreciate a perfect, Top Flight midyear Corvette, frozen in time. And I would put a Hurst shifter on it before the week was out.
I know, I likely made some of the NCRS folk throw up in revulsion.

 

Well said.

 

Tom I stopped by the show this morning for a short while as a I had another commitment to go to. Loved your car. To the O.P... in the sportsmen display today at the L.I. meet, there were many stock and modified cars. There were 5 mid years with 5 spd transmission as well as a wide variety of other modifications including engines and suspension. These cars received plenty of positive attention from everyone in attendance. No problem at all showing a modified car. You can even have it judged, however the point deduction will be much greater the further you deviate from appearing as original .

Charlie...member 34399

 

well having judged a few cars today at the Metro LI meet, I can say it was fun, I learned a few things and saw some of old my old friends like Drew... Great times and the food was pretty good also..

That being said, I also agree with the above statement,especially seeing Tomc's nice red (blaphemous) 67 coupe.. Real sweet... On the other side tho I also agree with Dzauto's comments that there are still some bad apples around.. And I further agree with 1955 Coppers comment that the big money came in and in my mind ruined it as a hobby, it more all business now. Sure there are those of us that look at it as a hobby, but those days I think are gone..

So bottom line there are still some BIG turds in responsible positions but I try to get past it and enjoy the good people which do out number the turds.. And when I get the chance to ZING the turds, for those that know me, I do it very well..

/jc

 

Every time I judge at an NCRS event, I can't help thinking that I'm working gratis so that some used car salesman can flip the car, call it an NCRS Top Flight, and make money.

As long as people trade cars as a matter of their membership in NCRS, then how can it be a hobby and not a business?

PS: NCRS would go a loooooooong way in pleasing everybody, if they would admit mildly modified cars for NCRS judging in a newly created class. At present, the fact that modified Vettes are relegated to Sportsman display, which is NON PARTICIPATORY, excludes a huge number of people who would be more than happy to engage in a useful activity rather than just gawk.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the "coin" analogy. It's more like the roll of a pair of dice. Even for the modifiers there are gradations. Consider:

Modified corvettes:
- for show - gleaming chrome and not a speck of dirt
- for street performance
- for drag racing
- for road racing
- as low riders
- using old tech and big blowers
- using new tech like LS9 motors
- modified for audio performance

Stock cars
- Restored cars
- Original (and unrestored) cars
- Drivers

Lot of different categories. In fact, in the old days it was the performance modifiers who used to "look down their noses" at those who would modify their cars only for show. Remember comments like, "Looks good but doesn't run worth a damn......"

But over time, things have changed. I remember when stock Corvettes were just considered boring by EVERYONE. It's also inevitable that the original cars became worth the most. It's true in every facet of life. Remember the line from Indiana Jones and Raider of the Lost Ark - "Look at this. It's worthless - ten dollars from a vendor in the street. But I take it, I bury it in the sand for a thousand years, it becomes priceless. Like the Ark." Unfortunately, it is that change in relative worth over the years that has probably created much of the scoffing by those who point at "stock" versions of the Corvette just as it does on this site.

 

While I agree that having modifieds in the NCRS for judging would be cool, how would the rules be defined tho?? IMHO ALL cars except survivors are modified...

65Tripleblack- I agree, we have some that come to get a TF just so they can flip the car....Judged one this weekend that in my mind was NOT a TF car, but he got it and will just flip it.. I don't think a TF should hold the values that people are getting now a days... Especially at BJ...

 

Since a car is supposed to be judged against a known standard, therefore OBJECTIVE, how could it receive TF if it wasn't deserved? Since you judged it, please explain.

Jim

 

Halo Effect: The halo effect is a cognitive bias whereby the perception of one trait (i.e. a characteristic of a person or object) is influenced by the perception of another trait (or several traits) of that person or object. An example would be judging a good-looking person as more intelligent.

Halo effects happen especially if the perceiver does not have enough information about all traits, so that he makes assumptions based on one or two prominent traits—these one or two prominent traits "overshadow" other traits, similar to the radiation of light in optical halo effects or halos in iconography (rings of light around someone's head).

Before a car is judged, the judges are always told, (in an offhand way..................but told), if they don't already know: "by the way, this car belongs to 'so-and-so ' ". Halo effect CAN change ones perception of the judged POS, depending on who "so-and-so" is.

 

So it's somewhat OBJECTIVE with some "who you know" thrown in for good measure. To me, that degrades the whole judging system.

Sure that's an incorrect part but what the he11, so-and-so is a good guy and long time member, let's give him full credit.

I'm sure things like that will make everyone want to join and have their cars judged.

Jim

 

That's hogwash. You judge the car, not the owner, and there's no secret who the owner is; his/her name is on the standard information card in the windshield. I use that card so I know the owner's first name when I introduce myself and my judging partner. "Hi, Roger" works a lot better than "hey you" for calming an almost always nervous owner and making him feel more comfortable with the process.

 

True John, and that's what I always (consciously) try to do. No favoritism, AFAIAC.

So, I edited the above post by qualifying it with the word "can".

There are quite a few dealers and traders in the Corvette "hobby", and I try to keep an open mind regarding what I'm doing, even though I know that the person showing the car is looking for a quick (and easy?) Chapter Top Flight Award, just so's he/she can boost the price of the vehicle by truthfully stating that the POS has earned a "Top Flight" award. I (try to) judge all cars just as critically, no matter what level is involved. Some people say: "Easy now, this is only a chapter event." To that I say : HOGWASH. Top Flight is Top Flight. No matter whether its Chapter or National. There are plenty of sheep out there who don't know the difference. In order to protect those "sheep", Corvettes ought to be judged with the same severity on a Chapter level than on a National level.

As I said before, and in other words: So long as people can make money as part and parcel to their NCRS membership, than the NCRS is absolutely not a pure hobby.

I have learned and continue to learn an awful lot since becoming a member of the NCRS. There are MANY great things about the NCRS, and I am merely pointing out one glaring fact of life. The human element can never be discounted. The stakes become much higher when money and livelihood are involved. I'm willing to bet that there is a pretty good percentage of NCRS judges who are "retired", but flip a car every few months for "pocket money".

Anyone who thinks that the Corvette "hobbyist" is a pure hobbyist, in the same sense as someone who builds model Lionel railroad trains for his own amusement is naive and foolish!

 

Well I didn't judge the WHOLE car just the exterior.. From what I saw it didn't deserve a TF.. Not saying it wasn't all there, just not what I think a TF car should look like... I guess you could say (obviously) it was definitely subjective on my part.. I guess that's why we judge in 2's... The Judge that I worked with was great tho..