58 - Power window conduit question
10-01-2010, 09:29 PM
#21
Drifting
10-01-2010, 10:39 PM
#22
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Where am I confused?
The confusion lies in where the conduit goes and how it is connected. Does it go on the outside skin as you show in your pictures, or is there a cut out on the door jam and it mounts on the fiberglass behind the outside skin? Does it mount to part of the metal brace...etc.
I guess I'm confused that you'd ask that question, cause basically my original question has not been answered by someone with an original car and can tell me exactly what where it mounts. Also the drawing you sent...I have no idea if its correct for a 58...can you 100% say it does?
The confusion lies in where the conduit goes and how it is connected. Does it go on the outside skin as you show in your pictures, or is there a cut out on the door jam and it mounts on the fiberglass behind the outside skin? Does it mount to part of the metal brace...etc.
I guess I'm confused that you'd ask that question, cause basically my original question has not been answered by someone with an original car and can tell me exactly what where it mounts. Also the drawing you sent...I have no idea if its correct for a 58...can you 100% say it does?
10-01-2010, 11:27 PM
#23
Drifting
Where am I confused?
The confusion lies in where the conduit goes and how it is connected. Does it go on the outside skin as you show in your pictures, or is there a cut out on the door jam and it mounts on the fiberglass behind the outside skin? Does it mount to part of the metal brace...etc.
I guess I'm confused that you'd ask that question, cause basically my original question has not been answered by someone with an original car and can tell me exactly what where it mounts. Also the drawing you sent...I have no idea if its correct for a 58...can you 100% say it does?
The confusion lies in where the conduit goes and how it is connected. Does it go on the outside skin as you show in your pictures, or is there a cut out on the door jam and it mounts on the fiberglass behind the outside skin? Does it mount to part of the metal brace...etc.
I guess I'm confused that you'd ask that question, cause basically my original question has not been answered by someone with an original car and can tell me exactly what where it mounts. Also the drawing you sent...I have no idea if its correct for a 58...can you 100% say it does?
Jeezz, F this , I will stick with my drag racing, they do not give a damn how the windows work, other than they wish they had them on a 100 degree day and I can run mine up and down between runs while they sweat in their enclosed cockpits. Peace brother.
10-02-2010, 01:51 AM
#24
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
No need to be insulting to express what you think.
However I think you present a good time to be reminded that we should all treat one another with respect on here and treat others like you'd like to be treated.
Having said that...I don't agree that unless you have an "original" car, then doing anything to it to make it "look" original is "not honest". I would be willing to bet that 95% of these cars are not 100% original. So should they just throw it together and make it work as you suggest? Rhetorical question by the way.
I also don't agree with your statement "I don't see others stepping up". I see a lot of people contributing to this conversation and doing so in a very helpful manner.
This is a great place to come and get information from experts, and I feel very fortunate to have such resources at my fingertips. Let's not ruin it.
However I think you present a good time to be reminded that we should all treat one another with respect on here and treat others like you'd like to be treated.
Having said that...I don't agree that unless you have an "original" car, then doing anything to it to make it "look" original is "not honest". I would be willing to bet that 95% of these cars are not 100% original. So should they just throw it together and make it work as you suggest? Rhetorical question by the way.
I also don't agree with your statement "I don't see others stepping up". I see a lot of people contributing to this conversation and doing so in a very helpful manner.
This is a great place to come and get information from experts, and I feel very fortunate to have such resources at my fingertips. Let's not ruin it.
Last edited by jusplainwacky; 10-02-2010 at 02:20 AM.
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Keeper65 (04-05-2020)
10-02-2010, 06:49 AM
#25
Melting Slicks
On the door jamb side there is an indent or depression in the glass. You just cut that out to the full size. You may have to go a little more but try not to.
The door side is a little tricky. There is no guide per say in the door. You must line up the conduit with the hole in the jamb and make an educated guess. Use tape to attach the conduit temporarily to judge where the hole needs to be. Open and close the door till you get the angle correct. The door just gets about a 3/8 hole for the harness to go through. The conduit just screws into the glass on the door side. (On the out side of the glass.) Best way to attach it is with split rivets. The screws tend to get loose in time.
As stated above by Vetrod. The repop conduits are not made right. You will have to bend or take the flange off and re weld it where you need it to be.
The door side is a little tricky. There is no guide per say in the door. You must line up the conduit with the hole in the jamb and make an educated guess. Use tape to attach the conduit temporarily to judge where the hole needs to be. Open and close the door till you get the angle correct. The door just gets about a 3/8 hole for the harness to go through. The conduit just screws into the glass on the door side. (On the out side of the glass.) Best way to attach it is with split rivets. The screws tend to get loose in time.
As stated above by Vetrod. The repop conduits are not made right. You will have to bend or take the flange off and re weld it where you need it to be.
10-02-2010, 11:23 AM
#26
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Mike....THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Copper had mentioned that he thought it mounted on the inside fiberglass (as you said), however others suggested that it mounts on the outside skin...which confused me as to who was correct.
I had a feeling it mounted behind the skin, because I had taken a small flashlight and looked through one of the access holes that mounts the hinge and I could see an area that was slightly angled. My concern was cutting holes and then finding out I was wrong.
It also didn't make sense that all the brackets were made incorrectly.
Yes, it would be helpful if someone had a picture...but I completely understand what you said. It was the information I was looking for.
This just proves my point....there are a lot of helpful people on here and if you get the right information, it can save you time in the long run. As the saying goes..."do it right the first time".
Thanks again...hopefully someone will be able to throw up a picture. I probably should change the title of my thread to something like "Anyone have a power window 58"....that might have attracted individuals with power windows.
By the way...I'm looking for a Drivers Side Power Window switch and the plug. If anyone has one, please let me know.
Copper had mentioned that he thought it mounted on the inside fiberglass (as you said), however others suggested that it mounts on the outside skin...which confused me as to who was correct.
I had a feeling it mounted behind the skin, because I had taken a small flashlight and looked through one of the access holes that mounts the hinge and I could see an area that was slightly angled. My concern was cutting holes and then finding out I was wrong.
It also didn't make sense that all the brackets were made incorrectly.
Yes, it would be helpful if someone had a picture...but I completely understand what you said. It was the information I was looking for.
This just proves my point....there are a lot of helpful people on here and if you get the right information, it can save you time in the long run. As the saying goes..."do it right the first time".
Thanks again...hopefully someone will be able to throw up a picture. I probably should change the title of my thread to something like "Anyone have a power window 58"....that might have attracted individuals with power windows.
By the way...I'm looking for a Drivers Side Power Window switch and the plug. If anyone has one, please let me know.
Last edited by jusplainwacky; 10-02-2010 at 11:26 AM.
10-02-2010, 02:55 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
THIS IS NOT RIGHT. I know that you are totally confused, so here is my stab at an explaination. I've done dozens of these, and ALL 58 thru 62's
are the same. The trick is that there IS a fiberglass panel behind the outside door edge that is on a slight angle. It's on all doors, even if the car did not come equipped with PW. Here's an easy way to find it. Mark the door where the conduit goes through the jamb. Take a small drill bit and drill a pilot hole through the door. as soon as you go through the outside skin, you'll hit the "angled fiberglass panel". You'll want to drill your pilot hole about 1/2" inboard as to hit the "space" between the angled fiberglass, and the outside skin. Now you can start to work the hole open, to fit the flange of the conduit. I know that it sounds really complicated, but once you see what it looks like, the other side will be a breeze. The conduit does NOT fasten to the outside of the door, but rather to the inside angled fiberglass. I wish I had a picture, but I don't . If someone with a STOCK PW car could take a shot of that area, it would really be helpful for you. Good luck.
Mike Coletta
are the same. The trick is that there IS a fiberglass panel behind the outside door edge that is on a slight angle. It's on all doors, even if the car did not come equipped with PW. Here's an easy way to find it. Mark the door where the conduit goes through the jamb. Take a small drill bit and drill a pilot hole through the door. as soon as you go through the outside skin, you'll hit the "angled fiberglass panel". You'll want to drill your pilot hole about 1/2" inboard as to hit the "space" between the angled fiberglass, and the outside skin. Now you can start to work the hole open, to fit the flange of the conduit. I know that it sounds really complicated, but once you see what it looks like, the other side will be a breeze. The conduit does NOT fasten to the outside of the door, but rather to the inside angled fiberglass. I wish I had a picture, but I don't . If someone with a STOCK PW car could take a shot of that area, it would really be helpful for you. Good luck.
Mike Coletta
Good thing I was not looking for perfect originality.
Brian G.
10-02-2010, 03:05 PM
#28
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Hey Brian....at least you tried to help!
And you did contribute... you had a good idea with the tape to find where the hole should go on the door itself which is exactly what I plan to do!
Its all now making sense as I look at the assembly drawing. I didn't know if the square outline they showed in the drawing was the area you actually cut out, or showing where the bracket fits.
So, if I understand the drawing...the hole in the door should be square and I'll need to drill a hole for the wiring harness going to the switch.
And you did contribute... you had a good idea with the tape to find where the hole should go on the door itself which is exactly what I plan to do!
Its all now making sense as I look at the assembly drawing. I didn't know if the square outline they showed in the drawing was the area you actually cut out, or showing where the bracket fits.
So, if I understand the drawing...the hole in the door should be square and I'll need to drill a hole for the wiring harness going to the switch.
10-02-2010, 03:17 PM
#29
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Actually...I just looked at my situation, and I don't think the tape thing is going to work cause I have about a 1/2" gap between the door and the car. It would take A LOT of tape.
10-02-2010, 04:12 PM
#30
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I'm looking at the drawing (Sec 426 sheet 2.00) in trying to help me determine where the hole goes, and I see it states that 3.9" from the center hole to the hinge holes. When I measure that on my car, its no where close.
Maybe I'll start another post asking if anyone has power windows where they can send me a picture with some measurements.
Maybe I'll start another post asking if anyone has power windows where they can send me a picture with some measurements.
10-02-2010, 06:12 PM
#31
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Hey Mike...got your email.
I checked the dimensions on the bracket, and as you indicated, it is different then the original in size...its much smaller... so its obviously a repro. I didn't know this.
Considering the hole dimensions in the drawing are in reference to the original conduit, and none of the dimensions are from the "center line" but from the edges of the orginal bracket, the dimensions are kind of useless to me.
What I did was this....in trying to find the center of the hole on the door, I got some clay and stuck it in the hole in the car and it made an imprint of the hole. I then pulled it out, flipped it over and stuck a nail through the center of the clay and out the other side and then put it all back in the hole. I then shut the door and could see exactly where the nail head was hitting on the door indicating where the center of the hole would be on the door.
My question is this....when the door is closed, is the conduit centered in the hole in the car or is it off to one side?
Secondly I'm assuming the company that sells these repro brackets doesn't provide drawings for installing them on a car without power window holes?
I checked the dimensions on the bracket, and as you indicated, it is different then the original in size...its much smaller... so its obviously a repro. I didn't know this.
Considering the hole dimensions in the drawing are in reference to the original conduit, and none of the dimensions are from the "center line" but from the edges of the orginal bracket, the dimensions are kind of useless to me.
What I did was this....in trying to find the center of the hole on the door, I got some clay and stuck it in the hole in the car and it made an imprint of the hole. I then pulled it out, flipped it over and stuck a nail through the center of the clay and out the other side and then put it all back in the hole. I then shut the door and could see exactly where the nail head was hitting on the door indicating where the center of the hole would be on the door.
My question is this....when the door is closed, is the conduit centered in the hole in the car or is it off to one side?
Secondly I'm assuming the company that sells these repro brackets doesn't provide drawings for installing them on a car without power window holes?
Last edited by jusplainwacky; 10-02-2010 at 06:34 PM.
10-02-2010, 06:40 PM
#32
Le Mans Master
Hey JPW - I deleted my comment about the AIM's dimensions indicating the top and bottom edges of the outer skin 'cutout' for the conduit mouting flange when I spotted your new thread asking for pics of original PW car door arrangments figuring you'd prefer the pics.
I'd be surprised to hear the repro conduit mounting plates are that much different than the originals and if they are close (approx 1-inch wide by about 1 7/8 high) that means the AIM cutout dimensions are very 'generous' which would allow you to adjust the location a little bit if necessary. As Aworks suggested, once you get the access cut made you can tape the conduit in place before doing any serious drilling and see how it clears the opening in the forward door jamb.
Mike T.
I'd be surprised to hear the repro conduit mounting plates are that much different than the originals and if they are close (approx 1-inch wide by about 1 7/8 high) that means the AIM cutout dimensions are very 'generous' which would allow you to adjust the location a little bit if necessary. As Aworks suggested, once you get the access cut made you can tape the conduit in place before doing any serious drilling and see how it clears the opening in the forward door jamb.
Mike T.
10-02-2010, 06:58 PM
#33
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I would like to delete that other post...but I don't know how cause I'm just going to dive in.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I got my dremel tool out and ready to cut.
I'll let you know.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I got my dremel tool out and ready to cut.
I'll let you know.
10-02-2010, 07:22 PM
#34
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Hey Mike....
I cut the hole and guess what....sure enough there is the landing pad for the bracket, just as you stated.
I couldn't close the door and check the fit because the conduit hit another panel behind the hole in the car....does that get cut in the same shape as the hole on the door jam...kind of an oval...or is it just drilled out in a circle?
I cut the hole and guess what....sure enough there is the landing pad for the bracket, just as you stated.
I couldn't close the door and check the fit because the conduit hit another panel behind the hole in the car....does that get cut in the same shape as the hole on the door jam...kind of an oval...or is it just drilled out in a circle?
10-02-2010, 08:26 PM
#35
Drifting
I went to the annual Dyno Day party at the Early Vette Shop today, as in chassis dyno. Mike the owner, has dozens of c1 vette wrecked cars as well as complete cars . I asked mike about the power window question and he lead me to a factory power window car door in less than 30 seconds. He already knew the answer. Power window cars had a rectangular cut out showing the inner angled fiberglass back plate. Picture below is of the drivers side door. Ugly but stock. 
10-02-2010, 09:14 PM
#36
Le Mans Master
Good pic and accurate description alright, it is ugly. I remember when I was adding PW to my 65 Coupe about 20 years ago that a friend who had added it to his midyear mentioned it was fairly easy to pick out the factory PW cars from the owner-installed ones because the factory oval cutout in the door jamb was typically less than smooth-edged while the add-on setups had a much more finished look to them.
Mike T.
Mike T.
10-02-2010, 09:49 PM
#37
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Hey Vetrod62...you beat me to the punch! Thanks for going through all this trouble and posting a picture. Very cool indeed!
I did get mine in...and had to do a little "tweeking" on the bracket to adjust it, but it fits great! They aren't as strong as I would expect...especially the flange you screw down.
Here is a picture of what I did and you can see the landing. Now how do I (or can I) delete my other post?
Mike...thanks a lot for all your help!!
I did get mine in...and had to do a little "tweeking" on the bracket to adjust it, but it fits great! They aren't as strong as I would expect...especially the flange you screw down.
Here is a picture of what I did and you can see the landing. Now how do I (or can I) delete my other post?
Mike...thanks a lot for all your help!!
Last edited by jusplainwacky; 10-02-2010 at 10:20 PM.
10-03-2010, 09:41 AM
#38
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
One thing that original picture shows, is that the car was painted first before the power window wiring went in.
10-03-2010, 01:44 PM
#39
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Below is a picture of the power window hole I cut out, and the dimensions that I obtained.
Be aware, I figured these out myself...as the assembly manual drawing sucks.
If you are attempting to do this...and want to make sure you don't make any mistakes, I would first drill a hole in the center...enough for you to see the "landing" that the conduit flange screws to..from there you can widen the hole out and make any adjustments...or you can just take my measurements and go for it. This was done on my 1958..and I hear they are all the same from 58-62...but I make no claims on that.
Also be aware that when you are cutting this...the landing is "angled" and it is right behind the outside skin on the left hand side from this picture (Passenger Side). So becareful not to cut the actual landing out! I used a dremel tool and cut just deep enough to cut the outside skin.
Hopefully this will save someone a lot of time and trouble I went through. Good luck!
Be aware, I figured these out myself...as the assembly manual drawing sucks.
If you are attempting to do this...and want to make sure you don't make any mistakes, I would first drill a hole in the center...enough for you to see the "landing" that the conduit flange screws to..from there you can widen the hole out and make any adjustments...or you can just take my measurements and go for it. This was done on my 1958..and I hear they are all the same from 58-62...but I make no claims on that.
Also be aware that when you are cutting this...the landing is "angled" and it is right behind the outside skin on the left hand side from this picture (Passenger Side). So becareful not to cut the actual landing out! I used a dremel tool and cut just deep enough to cut the outside skin.
Hopefully this will save someone a lot of time and trouble I went through. Good luck!
Last edited by jusplainwacky; 10-03-2010 at 06:16 PM.
