E15 Gas
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,118
Likes: 1,874
From: Greenville, Indiana
I keep hearing this argument but in 30 years of using E10 I have never seen an actual case of this. On the contrary, ethanol is the main component of gasline antifreeze because it does trap the water condensed in the tank from vented systems instead of letting it condense and pool at the bottom of the tank.
The only way this argument holds any water (pun intended) is if the tank was stored for a long time, were kept almost empty, in a humid environment, and the temperature regularly changed causing the vent to breathe in and out. The moisture found in the air would be absorbed and the ethanol would eventually saturate. This would put moisture in contact with the entire surface of the tank in contact with the fuel. But with pure gasoline, the water would condense and pool at the bottom of the tank in a higher concentration.
I have several hit-miss antique engines with perforated tank bottoms from this. Nothing new.
The only way this argument holds any water (pun intended) is if the tank was stored for a long time, were kept almost empty, in a humid environment, and the temperature regularly changed causing the vent to breathe in and out. The moisture found in the air would be absorbed and the ethanol would eventually saturate. This would put moisture in contact with the entire surface of the tank in contact with the fuel. But with pure gasoline, the water would condense and pool at the bottom of the tank in a higher concentration.
I have several hit-miss antique engines with perforated tank bottoms from this. Nothing new.
I am not arguing the point. Just telling what I've experienced in the last almost 50 years of fooling with gasoline engines. The last thirty with E 10.
I have yet to take an automotive carb apart and find much of a problem but have had a number of small engines, including my 55 horse O/B and my 200 horse fuel injected O/B plugged up with a substance that resembled snot. Wet, runny snot that plugs up the fuel system to the point that the engine won't run.
Your point about gas line anti-freeze is well taken but if you look at the contents of the can, I think you'll find it contains "methanol", not "ethanol". What is the difference as far as absorbing water? I have no idea. All I know is the boat dealer told me to use the "methanol" additive in my gasoline and I wouldn't have any more problem.
If you add water to straigh gasoline and then let it settle, the water will pool to the bottom and be visible as a bubble. Do the same with ethanol laced gasoline and I think you'll see the water WILL NOT settle completely.
What you will see is three distinct layers and when that bottom layer gets in your carbureted fuel system, you'll know it.
I've NEVER had a gas tank rust through. I did just replace one on a '65 model car I'm re-doing because of some flakey rust inside the tank.
Your hit/miss engines are hardly a poster child for the need for good quality fuel. Won't they run on old greasy rags. Kinda'?
You can agree with me or disagree, I don't care.
Last edited by MikeM; Feb 25, 2011 at 12:33 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,300
Likes: 0
From: Iowa
I am not arguing the point. Just telling what I've experienced in the last almost 50 years of fooling with gasoline engines. The last thirty with E 10.
I have yet to take an automotive carb apart and find much of a problem but have had a number of small engines, including my 55 horse O/B and my 200 horse fuel injected O/B plugged up with a substance that resembled snot. Wet, runny snot that plugs up the fuel system to the point that the engine won't run.
Your point about gas line anti-freeze is well taken but if you look at the contents of the can, I think you'll find it contains "methanol", not "ethanol". What is the difference as far as absorbing water? I have no idea. All I know is the boat dealer told me to use the "methanol" additive in my gasoline and I wouldn't have any more problem.
If you add water to straigh gasoline and then let it settle, the water will pool to the bottom and be visible as a bubble. Do the same with ethanol laced gasoline and I think you'll see the water WILL NOT settle completely.
What you will see is three distinct layers and when that bottom layer gets in your carbureted fuel system, you'll know it.
I've NEVER had a gas tank rust through. I did just replace one on a '65 model car I'm re-doing because of some flakey rust inside the tank.
Your hit/miss engines are hardly a poster child for the need for good quality fuel. Won't they run on old greasy rags. Kinda'?
You can agree with me or disagree, I don't care.
I have yet to take an automotive carb apart and find much of a problem but have had a number of small engines, including my 55 horse O/B and my 200 horse fuel injected O/B plugged up with a substance that resembled snot. Wet, runny snot that plugs up the fuel system to the point that the engine won't run.
Your point about gas line anti-freeze is well taken but if you look at the contents of the can, I think you'll find it contains "methanol", not "ethanol". What is the difference as far as absorbing water? I have no idea. All I know is the boat dealer told me to use the "methanol" additive in my gasoline and I wouldn't have any more problem.
If you add water to straigh gasoline and then let it settle, the water will pool to the bottom and be visible as a bubble. Do the same with ethanol laced gasoline and I think you'll see the water WILL NOT settle completely.
What you will see is three distinct layers and when that bottom layer gets in your carbureted fuel system, you'll know it.
I've NEVER had a gas tank rust through. I did just replace one on a '65 model car I'm re-doing because of some flakey rust inside the tank.
Your hit/miss engines are hardly a poster child for the need for good quality fuel. Won't they run on old greasy rags. Kinda'?
You can agree with me or disagree, I don't care.
Ethanol’s and Methanol’s Reactions with Water
Ethanol – is miscible in water, which means that the two substances easily combine to make a homogenous solution.
Methanol – is soluble in water, which means that it will break down in the presence of water.
So with either Ethanol or Methanol, water is "absorbed". With Ethanol, the water is suspended, with methanol, it reacts. End result in both cases is that water in contact with either will no longer pool at the bottom of the tank like with pure gasoline. And as I said earlier, with the water being in suspension with ethanol, it is in contact with the entire surface that is in contact with the ethanol. The problem of gas tank rust still boils down to humid air being pumped in to the vented tank due to temperature changes.
This is also a known problem with farm tractor crankcases. The old tractors, like my 36 A, are prone to having water condense in the crankcase and gearcase. I can remember having the oil pump coupler break on startup due to ice in the oil pump that condensed inside over the summer. After that, every fall we drained the condensate out before the weather got cold, just like checking the antifreeze.
As for the hit miss engines, yes, they will run on almost anything but I've never wasted good scotch to find out!
Last edited by rgs; Feb 25, 2011 at 11:04 PM.
