E15 Gas
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 473
Likes: 4
From: Orange County Ca
E15 Gas
In the news today...
The U.S. House voted to block the EPA from spending money to allow the sale of gasoline with as much as 15 percent ethanol, handing automakers at least a temporary victory in getting more time to test the fuel. The House amendment was part of a budget bill passed over the weekend that now goes to the Senate, where the ethanol legislation faces a bumpier road
http://www.autonews.com/#ixzz1Ejqj9AOK
The U.S. House voted to block the EPA from spending money to allow the sale of gasoline with as much as 15 percent ethanol, handing automakers at least a temporary victory in getting more time to test the fuel. The House amendment was part of a budget bill passed over the weekend that now goes to the Senate, where the ethanol legislation faces a bumpier road
http://www.autonews.com/#ixzz1Ejqj9AOK
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Fulton NY
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
E15 will be for 2001 cars and up only. Pure gas or E10 will still be marketed for all other vehicles.
Incidentally, I've been using E10 for decades, never had a moment's problem with it.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,901
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From: Inverness FL
St. Jude Donor '07
i doubt they would put in new pumps for E15, so something would have to go, probably 89
Bill
Last edited by wmf62; Feb 23, 2011 at 07:17 PM.
Team Owner
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From: Washington Michigan
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 473
Likes: 4
From: Orange County Ca
On October 13, 2010, EPA approved a waiver allowing the use of E15 for MY 2007 and newer cars and light trucks.
On 01/21/2011 the EPA waived a limitation on selling E15 for model year 2001 through 2006 vehicles.
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...c?OpenDocument
To reach 36 billion gallons will require either the sale of exponentially more flex-fuel vehicles with significantly more pumps, or an increase in the percentage of ethanol allowed in normal gasoline,
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...lends-e15.html
Bob Dinneen (CEO of Renewable Fuels Association) pointed out the apparent legal and scientific disconnect inherent in EPA’s outright denial for MY2000 and older vehicles.
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/news/entry...t-bifurcation/
In summary, there's significant pressure to increase the use of E15 and allowing it to be used in all vehicles. If that happens, you may be faced with putting it into your old Corvette. It's something to watch and speak out as necessary.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 267
From: Richmond Texas
Yea dream on. While I am not forced to buy ethanol induced fuel here in Sugar Land Texas, there is no one who sells non ethanol fuel. It has caused havoc among my Holley Carbed vehicles and destroyed two of my dirt bike carburetors. I got a Holley that the casting is coming apart from that the ethanol is eating up. I got to pull it back off this weekend and try to clean it out.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,474
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From: Houston Texas
St. Jude Donor '10-'12-'13
Yea dream on. While I am not forced to buy ethanol induced fuel here in Sugar Land Texas, there is no one who sells non ethanol fuel. It has caused havoc among my Holley Carbed vehicles and destroyed two of my dirt bike carburetors. I got a Holley that the casting is coming apart from that the ethanol is eating up. I got to pull it back off this weekend and try to clean it out.
How long did it take for this corrosive process? Your right about non ethanol options.
The signs on the pump say, "may contain up to 15% ethanol". I wonder how often it really does?
Racer
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 387
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From: Grafton Wisconsin
Equipment/Vehicle Storage is the Problem...
The Outdoor Power Equipment Institute along with marine, motorycle and other trade associations has lobbyed strongly against introduction of E15 until more conclusive testing can be proven. The problem is with storage of the equipment. For sure E10 causes problems to fuel systems of small engines, such as viton seats inside the carburetor. While use of E10 and likely futue use of E15 fuel is not a problem with automobiles used regularily, it may be a concern for our carbureated Corvettes which are often stored for extended periods. Some gasoline retailers offer their premium as a non-ethanol product and promote it's use for small engines. Introduction of E15 will cause confusion at the pump which will have to be dealt with.
Vetterway
Vetterway
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
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Yea dream on. While I am not forced to buy ethanol induced fuel here in Sugar Land Texas, there is no one who sells non ethanol fuel. It has caused havoc among my Holley Carbed vehicles and destroyed two of my dirt bike carburetors. I got a Holley that the casting is coming apart from that the ethanol is eating up. I got to pull it back off this weekend and try to clean it out.
I'm sorry that you've had problems with E10, but that's not the topic here.
E15 (if it ever appears) will be for 2001 vehicles and newer only.
This site is for old Corvettes- why does the E15 topic keep coming up unless you and the others are suggesting that E10 or pure gas will disappear and we'll all have to use E15?
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 267
From: Richmond Texas
I don't know how long it took to eat up my carb, my problem is with storage, I now run my tanks near empty and only buy what fuel I think I will use for when I am running it.
I know this site is for old corvettes, but unfortunately no matter how old your Corvette is, you have to deal with today's parts and supplies. Suggesting that "pure gas" might be unavailable someday, well to me, for all general purposes, it is. Unless I want to buy it in 55 gallon drums and store it on my property.
Will E-10 ever disappear? No Way, just ask the guy who said leaded gas will never go away.
So can they force me to buy it? NO. Can they make the pure gas readily unavailable for purchase? Yes, they already have. Will they make E-10 unavailable for me? They Might. Will I be forced to buy E-15, Well I guess that turns into a more philosophical question, Is anyone really forced to buy fuel?
Does this affect my Old Corvette? I think it does.
I know this site is for old corvettes, but unfortunately no matter how old your Corvette is, you have to deal with today's parts and supplies. Suggesting that "pure gas" might be unavailable someday, well to me, for all general purposes, it is. Unless I want to buy it in 55 gallon drums and store it on my property.
Will E-10 ever disappear? No Way, just ask the guy who said leaded gas will never go away.
So can they force me to buy it? NO. Can they make the pure gas readily unavailable for purchase? Yes, they already have. Will they make E-10 unavailable for me? They Might. Will I be forced to buy E-15, Well I guess that turns into a more philosophical question, Is anyone really forced to buy fuel?
Does this affect my Old Corvette? I think it does.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
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Jump 30 years to the present and the same is true for E10. It's only the old car f*rts that are 'upset' but again we can't really prove our point that there's no work around or alternative.
What's different with E15? According to the OEMs, new production cars (2001 is today's threshold) cannot run on E15. Never mind the old car crowd- they are talking about the hundreds of millions of daily driver modern cars around the globe. I think I see a slightly stronger lobby here.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,730
Likes: 92
From: Lakeland FL
Money talks..
The main commercial lobbying going on for mandatory ethanol has very deep pockets because those groups stand to make millions of dollars in the long run. Tree huggers aside, it takes a lot of political clout to enact a $.50? cent/gallon tariff on imported ethanol.
On first glance, it's a wonderful idea. Be energy independent. It's almost as wonderful as the non polluting electric cars, AKA coal burners....
If the E15 freight train keeps moving along, all old car owners will have to pay the price, one way or another.
On first glance, it's a wonderful idea. Be energy independent. It's almost as wonderful as the non polluting electric cars, AKA coal burners....
If the E15 freight train keeps moving along, all old car owners will have to pay the price, one way or another.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,474
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From: Houston Texas
St. Jude Donor '10-'12-'13
Thats exactly whats going to happen. How many stations do you think will carry gas for 2001 and older cars? At some point that number will be few.
I don't know of any stations here in Houston that offer a for sure "non ethanol content" gasoline.
And theres little doubt a motor will produce less HP the higher the ethanol content.
Last edited by MiguelsC2; Feb 24, 2011 at 07:17 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,300
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From: Iowa
The old car market that objects to E10 using sound technical points is extremely small- we're a spec on the horizon at best. Virtually any car can be made to run acceptably on E10 using a minimum of modifications. This is no different than when leaded gas was phased out in the 70s and 80s. Yes we screamed and shouted but really couldn't prove our point that the sky was falling. The percentage of cars that could not run on unleaded was (and is) virtually zero.
Jump 30 years to the present and the same is true for E10. It's only the old car f*rts that are 'upset' but again we can't really prove our point that there's no work around or alternative.
.......
Jump 30 years to the present and the same is true for E10. It's only the old car f*rts that are 'upset' but again we can't really prove our point that there's no work around or alternative.
.......
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,118
Likes: 1,874
From: Greenville, Indiana
The best course of action is to de-fund it like what is going on now. Then, repeal the law that mandates xxxxx gallons of ethanol be put in gasoline.
I peronally don't have any problem with E 10 except it has an affinity to attract water and the water that accumulates in carburetors and other seldom used or long term storage engines can/does harm fuel systems.
A good course of action is to buy gasoline containers that are sealed and won't let moisture in. As far as drivers, just don't let them sit too long without running/refinlling.
This is why I think today it's a bad idea to store with a full tank.
I don't care if you disagree with me. Been using E 10 for about thirty years now.
I peronally don't have any problem with E 10 except it has an affinity to attract water and the water that accumulates in carburetors and other seldom used or long term storage engines can/does harm fuel systems.
A good course of action is to buy gasoline containers that are sealed and won't let moisture in. As far as drivers, just don't let them sit too long without running/refinlling.
This is why I think today it's a bad idea to store with a full tank.
I don't care if you disagree with me. Been using E 10 for about thirty years now.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,300
Likes: 0
From: Iowa
The only way this argument holds any water (pun intended) is if the tank was stored for a long time, were kept almost empty, in a humid environment, and the temperature regularly changed causing the vent to breathe in and out. The moisture found in the air would be absorbed and the ethanol would eventually saturate. This would put moisture in contact with the entire surface of the tank in contact with the fuel. But with pure gasoline, the water would condense and pool at the bottom of the tank in a higher concentration.
I have several hit-miss antique engines with perforated tank bottoms from this. Nothing new.
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Miami Fl
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,474
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From: Houston Texas
St. Jude Donor '10-'12-'13
Here is a list of ethanol free gas stations in the US and Canada.
www.pure-gas.org
www.pure-gas.org
Thanks! Great list. Unfortuantly none in or near Houston.
