I'm doing a frame off restoration on a 65 fuel car,it has been a real chore so far. I knew the body was in bad shape but once it was pulled off it was far worse than expected. The car had been in at least two major collisions and repaired poorly.It also had a good sized engine fire with parts of the fire wall burned enough to poke your finger threw and the Transmission tunnel was also burned along with the bottom of the heater box. The front clip was junk mostly unrepairable needed a top surround rt. frt signal panel and rt vent panel.The right 1/4 had been half replaced and the inner wheel well damage had never been repaired. The entire car had been messed with and almost no original hardware was used. I have the car gutted totally taken apart.So far I've replaced the frame,the owner got a painted bare frame I have rebuilt and installed susp. done brake and gas lines installed a rebuilt motor ,Trans,put the body back on fit very thing primered the car with 2 1/2 gallons of Feather fill. My problem is the owner of the car thinks I'm trying to cheat him by telling him I have 320 hours invested so far which also includes many hours of bead blasting cleaning and painting parts.I know I have even more than that many hours but the owner doesn't believe it. I was wondering if anyone could give there opinion on how long all this should take

 

Sounds about right on your part.

How much is it to get the block stamped with the right numbers? If the owner balks, remind him that someone will now cherish this car highly and he can get his money back.

 

The way I operate is to meet with my shop nearly weekly to review what has been done and what is still on the to do list. I keep a project plan with items we discussed, and review it often with the shop. I also openly discuss the project budget at the beginning of the project and throughout the project. If I have project creep, I am totally happy paying for the extra work. My car is 4 years into the restoration and making good progress at my second shop (first shop just didn't make time for my project). Bottom line is good communication, and document your hours.

 

This guy is going to fight you all through the restoration. Have him pay you what he currently owes you and have him come pick up the car....he's a tire kicker. For what it's worth, I have approx. 2000 hours in my full restoration.

 

I just finished my 67. The body shop had 300 hrs. in body and paint. My body was as bad as the one you described. I did the frame,suspension and motor install myself. I had approx. 200 hrs.
With that said I believe you are more than fair. I also had sticker shock with my body man but in the end it was worth every penny.
Shemp

 

Thanks a lot guys I've been doing this for 36 years I always try and do the best job possible and 99 % of customers are great but there's always that 1%

 

I bet if you follow this advise, he will shut up and let you finish in peace. Questioning you repeatedly is just like calling you a liar. One or two price checks is normal for most people, but if he questions your every move, it's just not worth the hassle.

 

Probably true. He has no idea how time consuming body work is - partricularly restoration body work. I'm preparing a Cobra Replica for paint and it's from one of the maufacturer's that supposedly has one of the higher quality, easier to prep bodies. I've spent a year in time, 3 gallons of body filler, and 2-1/2 gallons of slick sand and about 6 rolls of adhesive sandpaper so far. I probably have 250 to 300 hours in it so far. (I'm slow but I'm thorough) If I were having to deal with burnt panels, missing parts, and bonding new panels I would probably have about 2 years in it.

Dan

 

I cant give an opinion on your time involved, but it doesnt sound bad for the extent of the restoration needed. But I have to ask, didnt you give an estimate? Did he ask for one, or just say do it?
I am not in your business, but I always come to a "ballpark" agreement with a client so we both know what we are in for. I also update weekly and when I hear someone who initially said "I dont care what its costs" start to complain about reasonable costs, I tell them to find someone else.
You didnt say, but I have the feeling your customer is the type who said "just do it and do it right, Ill pay for it" I have found that that type of person complains the loudest and is the most difficult to deal with.
You might be better squaring up with him and walking away, or have an agreement that you touch base weekly and he pays weekly. I fear you will get burned otherwise.
Good luck.

 

Did you take pictures of the damage, before starting repairs? Let him take the pictures to any Corvette restorer and get their opinion. I bet he gets a higher estimate.

I did all of my own work on my car. My friend, who owns the body shop where I did it said if he had spent the amount of time I did on it, the total job would have run $30K. His is considered the best shop in town. Of course, since it was my first time working with a fiberglass car, It took longer than it should have.

 

I gave my customer an estimate but the problem was when I started taking the car apart it was way worse, but the customer was well aware of what I had to do,I've been doing this for 35 years and this was the most messed with car I'd come across,I even told him he'd be better off with a better car,if thats not bad enough he wants an NCRS restoration I didn't give an estimate for that just a clean driver, I started hearing from first the guy doing the frame "worse person I ever had to deal with" the guy building his motor"worse person I've ever had to deal with" the guy at the Corvette parts store thru him out of his store he has left a wake of pissed off people where ever he goes

 

RUN ragdump RUN!

 

I would get what he owes you , and blow him off. Sounds like a no win situation. Had a Jaguar owner like that. She came to us first, we did some work, and did it well. Because it was a Jaguar, it was not cheap. She was unhappy and she proceeded to bad mouth us all over town. Being as our shop was considered the best in the area, everyone else in town refused to deal with her, after speaking to our boss, Ed Ebert. Next thing you know, she is back, pleading with us to work on her 2+2. Then back to bad mouthing, then back for more work.

Finally the owner politely told her to take her business elsewhere. Her reply was, "Nobody else will work on my cars!" Ed's reply was, "That is unfortunate."

And we in the shop all lived happily ever after.

 

I also got an estimate from the body shop. When he stripped the paint I had to take a 2 hour drive to the shop to see how bad it was. In the end the estimate had doubled. I kind of understand being that I am a home improvement contractor and we never know what is behind the walls until we tear them out. Hence the word estimate. Shemp

 

Life is too short to put up with this sort of behavior. You will have a battle with him at every stage of the restoration. In the end he will probably be an unhappy customer because he will think he paid too much. I'd bow out on this guy. There is an outside chance that when you present that scenario he will lighten up but I doubt it. Good luck

 

I have to agree with the advise you have already been given. You have to decide it you want to finish the job or tell him to your reputation is worth more than what he's paying you to restore his car. So by all means if you're not 100% satisfied take your car out. It sounds like you are dealing with a "money guy" not a "car guy". If you continue I would set new guide lines with him. If he lives close make him come look at every additional concern that comes up. If he can't come email and photobucket. Let him decide what he wants to do. Put the burden of choise on him. Tell him straight out if he expects an NCRS level car there is a price attached to it. Remind him that what he contracted you to do in the 1st place and where his expectations are now are not at the same price point. Yes there is always one in every crowd. Sometimes you can scare them straight and they turn around. Sometimes no matter how hard you try there is no happy ending. The only consolation is everybody who comes in contact with that type of guy knows "he's never satisfied" and takes what he says "with a grain of salt". Good luck with what ever the out come is.

 

Consider that on a regular car you trash and replace parts as opposed to bead blasting, etc. Hence the standard practice to toss parts rather than accumulate time repairing makes a job cost less.

Restoring/repairing a corvette vs a honda accord, the time spent will not be equivalent. He needs to understand this.

 

 

If it was me I'd tell him I don't like him so I want $10000 at a time in advance of any work and that each time I use up that amount of money I'll contact him for more. Don't call me I'll call you. Don't come and hang around the shop cause you're a pain in the ***. If he agrees to this than you will have a pleasurable job, otherwise collect what he owes you and tell him to get it out of your shop, and move along to the next project.