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Do I need Rings???

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Old Jun 9, 2011 | 01:53 PM
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i wonder if the canadian comedian is laughing now after boston handed vancouver it's *** in the last 2 stanley cup final games????
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Old Jun 9, 2011 | 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BIG BLOCK JAMO
i wonder if the canadian comedian is laughing now after boston handed vancouver it's *** in the last 2 stanley cup final games????
And how does that snide comment relate to the subject of this thread?
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Old Jun 9, 2011 | 03:39 PM
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it dosen't. just like his stupid answer. sorry to offend you, dad..
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Old Jun 9, 2011 | 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BIG BLOCK JAMO
it dosen't. just like his stupid answer. sorry to offend you, dad..
Well you're making friends fast.
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Old Jun 9, 2011 | 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve439
Well you're making friends fast.
Maybe our new friend doesn't understand the subtleties of humour- like my post (even with a smilie added)- or sarcasm , like your post.
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Old Jun 9, 2011 | 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Westlotorn
I wish I had paid more attention to your information given, at 29,000 miles and oil blowing out the vent you have excessive blow by. Blow by is caused by the fuel explosion blowing past the compression Rings filling your crankcase with pressure. The only escape for this is the vent. New engines have excessive blow by until the rings seat, that usually happens in the first few minutes of operation. Dyno operators tell me they see the blow by stop before the second pull on a dyno test.
With 29,000 miles you may have fractured a compression ring or two with detonation or poor cylinder hone has worn out your rings.
IF the engine was built to factory specs they may have used Cast Iron rings or Chrome or moly coated Cast Iron rings. Although these work pretty well in standard engines they don't like detonation and can fracture if exposed to detonation. These old engines use high compression and run near detonation all the time, if you used cheap fuel or had a little advanced timing you may have fractured the top rings in one or more cylinders.
When you pull it apart the rings will fall out of the ring lands in pieces if this has happened.
If the piston ring lands were not damaged by the detonation just re ring the engine ( 29,000 mile ) and run it. Assuming the engine was assembled correctly to start with.
Upgrade the Top rings to Ductile Iron moly faced rings and you will not fracture any more rings. At this low mileage I would not even hone the cylinders. Modern Rings are pre lapped at the factory and work on a smooth cylinder perfectly and don't need a new hone to seat in. ( GM has recommended this for years now ) Moly faced rings have been the ring of choice at OEM's since 1984 or so. Cast iron top rings leave a lot to be desired.
Modern rings will run 300,000 miles without wearing the cylinder or burning oil in a well tuned engine.
If this 29,000 mile engine was not honed correctly on rebuild and they used Cast Iron rings a rough hone can wear out the rings to the point it causes this type blow by.
This type wear will leave the top and second ring worn flat accross the full face of the ring, normally they are angled. All second rings are cast iron so you can always read the second ring even if the top ring was a Moly Ring. Moly rings are barrel shaped on the face while cast rings are angled. At 29,000 miles the second ring should show a wear pattern on the face with the angle worn about 1/3. The cast rings are coated so the worn area of the ring face angle shows shinny steel where it has rubbed on the cylinder wall and grey to flat black where it is still beveled and not yet touching the cylinder wall.
At 100,000 miles you may see the second ring worn 80 to 100% on this same ring face but at 29,000 miles it should be no more than 1/3 worn. This is a simple way to read your rings and see how they are working on your cross hatch.
Detonation happens when the fuel charge lights off before the spark plug fires, this happens when hot spots in the chamber start to glow red and can fire the fuel charge early. This early ignition of the fuel charge try's to blow this piston back down as 7 other pistons are trying to push it up. Detonation creates cylinder pressures that can exceed 3,500 to 5,000 PSI while normal wide open throttle PSI in these engines is 600 to 900 PSI. Detonation is what breaks rings, blows head gaskets and can break pistons. These hot spots can be caused by cheap fuel, advanced timing or a lean fuel mix. Hope this helps.
A wonderful explanation and description. Very well said.
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Old Jun 10, 2011 | 09:41 AM
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The engine(29k) blew oil through the air cleaner/blow-by pipe. Figured it probably was the rings, talked to the engine builder before taking it apart. In the course of the conversation he said I'd know right away if it needed rings when I pulled the heads off. After pulling the heads off, I wondered what he meant because I don't see anything obviously wrong.
I was just curious before dropping it off to him. When I do, I'll ask him what he meant.
That's why I "raised the question for starters."[/QUOTE]

Is the engine using the stock breather system? Is it a small block breathing through the separator in the valley, and is the separator installed, or does it breathe through a valve cover? If through the valve cover, does the valve cover have a good oil separator built in? If there is not a good separator, the engine will push oil into the air cleaner, regardless. This is often an issue with aftermarket valve covers.

A single broken ring will cause a pulsing blow by, much like a steam engine.

Bad exhaust guides can also cause heavy blow by.
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Old Jun 10, 2011 | 02:29 PM
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It would have been nice to do a leak down test at TDC before the engine was disassembled to see if it was one clylinder or all of them.

Its always wise to bolt a torque plate on when checking the cylinder bores as thats what your rings will see for cylinder roundness with the heads bolted on.
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Old Jun 10, 2011 | 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by unclecuzz
A wonderful explanation and description. Very well said.
Very informative, and well written.....thanks Westlotorn
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Old Jun 11, 2011 | 02:08 AM
  #30  
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Thanks guys, the advice to check the simple solutions before tearing the engine down is very sound. Keep us posted on the cure.
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